[QUOTE=RiddleMeThis;3219182]
There is a difference in being tough and being abusive.:yes:[/QUOTE]
I’m tough but not abusive. If he does what is expected he is talked or handled softly but if he bolts, doesn’t hold, spooks, fails to go when and where asked he is reminded who is the driver with a gentle nugging of the spurs and steadied by the reins.
I had a big turkey come up right under my horses nose Friday. I was less then 10 feet from him when he suddenly took flight, beating the bushes with his wings as he fought for altitude. It was a total suprise to me and Shadow but he never missed a beat. Sure it scared us both certainly not to the point of making him run.
The week before I was running road and I run facing traffic. A big truck had pulled onto the shoulder in front of me, motor idling and I had to go out of the pavement to bypass the transport. I stayed close to the truck and as I swung around the cab and looked up at the driver he released the air brakes. If you know what that sounds like, it is a big hiss of air and again Shadow while he did jump he never made 5 feet or crossed the center line, he jumped yes but immediately sat back down and continued on a easy trot.
No I tolerate no spook and constantly look for things, anything, any obsticle that makes him think, make him trust me. I have run out of things to do. I do also work heavy equipment in a yard and he is use to weaving in and out of bulldozers and power shovels.
Wish I had a bear handy:lol:
Horses are like their owners. They sense how the owner feels, up tight, the horse is up tight, cool calm and takes things as they come and the horse will take things as they come.
I have a feeling your horse is used to turkeys.
[QUOTE=matryoshka;3219612]
I have a feeling your horse is used to turkeys.[/QUOTE]
Thanks but I thought personal attacks were not allowed:D:D
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Shadow, you are right. I’ve got nothing against turkeys. Sorry. Back to the regularly scheduled topic of the OP experiencing a bolt on her horse and the discussion of how to handle such incidences.
Norval, my sense is that you have build Shadow up to the point of not spooking at turkey’s, bears, or air brakes. I would guess that his reaction would have been quite different if you were on your 3rd or 4th ride on him, rather than all the miles you have now. That certainly makes a hugh difference, as well as the variety of places you have to ride him in daily. Many of us don’t have that variety accessible to us.
We have now had our 9th or 10th consecutive weekend of rain. The trails are a mess. I haven’t even attempted the trail since the original post. With luck, I can get in the RP this week. I am sure if I had your riding schedule, Seabiscuit would be a different horse. He was last fall.
Everyone here has their own philosophy of what works for them, and how much variation in their philosophy they are willing to make. Take it all with a grain or ounce of salt or electrolytes. Some of us know each other, but most of us are strangers.
I belong to a well known riding club with over 600 members. I have said for years that none of us has anything in common with the rest, except we all have a horse, and we all think we are the expert.
I do spend alot of time training. It becomes an obsession for about 2 years and then I back off. I spend each and every day working on something with him but if you want to make a horse then you have to spend the time. On all the rides I look for things that will expand his experience and if I find something that scares me I make him do it until everything becomes routine.
I hope to have this guy for the next 25 years and he is going to be a made horse now and then I can sit back and relax for the rest of his life and mine.
I retired my old guy after 17 years of work because I wanted to devote my time to the youngster but in 15 years I don’t believe Strider ever spooked regardless of what I asked.
Rain or shine I head out, I have a good aussie rain coat, dome it to the saddle and we head out into the bush, mud, wind just adds to the excitement.
Good luck with you new guy and given time and work it will come.
darn computer/website ate my eloquent example of how many miles sweeten the horse…
I’ll try to be brief here. I think quality of mileage as well as quantity and willingness to work with the horse are real important. I am a 54 and a half year old overweight woman who only returned to horseback riding 2 years ago, after more than 10 years without riding more than once or twice. I had roughly two years of riding lessons and owned horses for about 3 years in mylate 30’s/early 40s. Before that, I was a horse crazy girl who had her own pony and rode bareback for a couple years in my mid teens. In otherwords, I am NO expert on training, and hardly a great rider. I can stay alive on a horse, and because I go splat when I come off I am highly motivated to stay on. Not to mention that when you are old and fat its difficult to dismount when you take your time, let alone when its an emergency. So I stay on No Matter What.
Yesterday’s aha moment involved a freight train and a gelding I’ve owned for 13 months. He has been in a heavy but not severe curb (billy allen, medium shanks) because he hates broken mouthpieces. I would prefer to have him in a snaffle, but initially it felt a lot like NO Brakes when I tried.
So the train sort of snuck up on us, no whistle until almost AT the level crossing, no where to go, because of high bank to the right, couldnt turn around because we’d be facing the booger, it was that close. Nothing between us and the train except the embankment and some trees and bushes, thankfully leafed out. Tracks themselves at about my eye level. Plenty noisy. Now, I was scared to death, but took deep breaths, told Hawk it couldnt eat him unless he looked at it, kept his butt aimed at the track, held him to a nice slow passage/piaffe (somebody, not me certainly, gave him some dressage training a couple owners ago.) Train went on its way, and we rode alongside it for about 3 minutes until the road and the tracks diverged.
I had just swapped out bits on him the previous ride, had only a kimberwick with the reins on the lower slot. In other words, practically no leverage at all. I think he’s ready for a mullen mouth snaffle…Mind you, at most this animal gets maybe 12-14 hours riding a week. At most. But we go everywhere when we do get out.
Norval - horses are all different. Some are spooky, hot and reactive, some are not. Period. Just like people. Just like dogs.
My QH mare wouldn’t have spooked at turkeys or bears or air breaks either - even when she was a 3 year old with 5 rides on her.
My Arab on the other hand will jump out of her skin at the sight of her own shadow, then tomorrow we can meet a bear on the trail and she won’t flinch an ear. Then the next day she’ll jump 3 feet up in the air because of a birch tree laying in the weeds, then next weekend I could ride her down the highway with semis cruising past. One day I can lead a pack of horses and she’s the “big girl.” The next day she’s the big fat chicken who wants to follow the others.
That’s just the way it is with a hot and reactive horse. What she does highly depends on my emotions, my physical comfort for the day and subsequent riding skills, the other horses in the group, what speed we’re doing, and what kind of trail. Her actions and emotions are directly related to me, and to what is going on around her.
Yesterday I rode with 5 other people. One lady’s horse busted out the bronco moves and unloaded her. Her horse went galloping off down the trail. He galloped right past me and the Arab and she just stood there perfectly at attention but not moving an inch. I talked to her and kept my legs on and she KNEW mom was in control and she had to stand up straight and be smart.
When the crap really hits the fan, I trust her and count on her 100% to be a star. It’s when there’s just nothing at all going on to engage her brain that she gets stupid.
That mare SHINES when she has a JOB to do on technical trails and I’m feeling confident and strong. When she has to THINK, she’s an A++ student. But if we’re weenying around in a flat pasture putzy putzin and I’m not really on my game that day, then guess what? I’m going to have a REALLY BAD RIDE. That’s just the way some horses are.
My QH on the other hand, and my pony? Ha! :lol: Makes no difference. You could throw a terrified, shaking in their boots newbie on their backs, or a professional trainer, wouldn’t make a difference. You could fall asleep on top of them and wake up 3 hours later at your intended destination.
You quit RIDING that Arab for a SECOND and you’re gonna be laying in the ditch wondering how you got there.
Strider and Shadow may not spook at things, but other horses DO and that’s just the way it is with horses. 
AT, how I miss my BOMBPROOF QH mare who never ever spooked at anything ever ever ever. One day when my son was 5 I had him on double behind me, seatbelted in with the rigging strap, and I wasn’t careful and the saddle turned under her belly, and I came off, but he was dangling from her. She never moved except to turn her head and grab a leaf to eat while I got the boy off and redid the saddle. My son, on the other hand was another story…not much of a horse person, needless to say.
But, she got kind of boring so I bred her to a Crabbet Arab, got the best mare for 25 years, only sorry I never bred her too.
Wow, that’s an awesome mare that you had! It sounds like she was a real dreamboat.
I teeter between liking the security and liking the flash and fire. I lean way more toward the flash and fire side than the boring and bombproof side. :lol:
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3222285]
Norval - horses are all different. Some are spooky, hot and reactive, some are not. Period. Just like people. Just like dogs.
That’s just the way it is with a hot and reactive horse. What she does highly depends on my emotions, my physical comfort for the day and subsequent riding skills, the other horses in the group, what speed we’re doing, and what kind of trail. Her actions and emotions are directly related to me, and to what is going on around her.
.
Strider and Shadow may not spook at things, but other horses DO and that’s just the way it is with horses. :)[/QUOTE]
I wish I know how to divide a post up like some so I could answer each section??
I know this Vickey. I now everyone and horses and dogs are different. I dominated the obedience ring for 12 years with my dogs. Won nearly everything I went in. I also taught obedience classes for those 12 years and run into all sorts of personalities but it always boiled down to the owner and his/her problems, not the dogs.
You talk about moods. I totally agree. A horse senses your mood. If you are brave and confident the horse senses this and is brave in return. I ride with confidence and the horse responds to this. Like the lady and the train, she maintained calm, took the horse in hand and the horse responded as such.
It ALL boils down to you, the rider, not the horse. Ride with confidence, carry a big enough bit to back up any rebellion and your horse wil respond.
Remember I did ride alot of problem horses for people and rentals and in every case, every one, the horse responded almost immediately to a firm confident rider. A eventer with a rider , very experienced, in her mid 20’s works full time at a track with thoroughbreds suddenly had a serious problem. totally barn sour, totally, she couldn’t get 100 yards from home and the horse reared , spun and headed for home at a run. She finally just gave up.
I took the horse and within 5 minutes we had our first fight, the horse lost in less then 10 seconds, another fight a few minutes later and again the horse lost quicker this time and that was it.
She rode Strider that day for her confidence building and saw just how good her old horses could be.
Anyway Strider and Shadow. I got Strider as a 6 year old stud, mean as all get out, needed a wipe to just enter the stall, the people said don’t turn you back on him, he will kill someone some day and they GAVE him to me for 2 weeks to straighten out. I ended up buying him, meanest horse you can imagine but what heart, what determination, what desire to win under all conditions, never ever quit. Still has that mean eye but anyone from 8 to 80 can handle him, ride him, do anything with him. I made him.
Shadow?? Took me through 3 fences and broke one post when we hit it head on, dumped me almost daily in the arena , I was covered with bruises but I always got back up, back on and finished the ride.
Slammed into a road sign on a bolt, bounced off the sign, over part of a gard rail and we slide on our side in front of a large truck. I held on and suprisingly everything is in slow motion, I thought about holding him , not letting him get away, got up, needed 17 stitches but i got back on and rode another 5 miles just to show him he did not wind, my elbow was badly hurt but I felt none of it until later, hip too. He got his stictches and for a month we fought until one day I decided enough was enough, the big western bit came out, the one on the right in the picture I posted, someone strong held him, it is all videoed and I want to post it soon, anyway the horse was held while I mounted and that was the day he quit fighting me. I had him beat with the big bit and he has never run or bucked from that day. Never thrown me again, went down hald dozen times but that was both of us, head over heals.
Actually went down Saturday, tripped and slid on his knees and nose.
Anyway Vickey none of my horses have ever come easy, not without a really good fight at one time in their training but they have all ended up great animals.
Rider mood is everything, be confident, carry enough bit, spurs I higly recommend and ride with confidence. It is contagious.
I will try posting a video soon.
[QUOTE=Bank of Dad;3222647]
AT, how I miss my BOMBPROOF QH mare who never ever spooked at anything ever ever ever. One day when my son was 5 I had him on double behind me, seatbelted in with the rigging strap, and I wasn’t careful and the saddle turned under her belly, and I came off, but he was dangling from her. She never moved except to turn her head and grab a leaf to eat while I got the boy off and redid the saddle. My son, on the other hand was another story…not much of a horse person, needless to say.
But, she got kind of boring so I bred her to a Crabbet Arab, got the best mare for 25 years, only sorry I never bred her too.[/QUOTE]
I was riding Strider and I always grab branches snapping them off as I go. I reached DOWN to pull a broken branch off the trail but it turned out to be still rooted and was just bent over. I had a good hold, leaning down and suddenly, I do ride with a very loose girth the saddle did the same thing as happened to you. The saddle slid under the belly and i found myself flat on the ground, partly under the horse with the saddle pointing straight down. STrider never missed a beat. He just stood and looked at me laying down but again never moved a muscle until I was up and strightened the saddle.
A good reliable horse can be made from anything if you have the confidence.
My whole point here is riders make the difference, sure there are more stable horses then others but in the end the rider is what forms the horse.
There are no problem horses only problem riders. I strongly believe this.
Vickey your ride must be comming up soon??? Good luck and please describe in detail for us to enjoy.
When a horse bolts (irrational runaway, not just messing with you) the “more force, more pain” method can either be ineffective or even make the situation worse. If a horse is bolting in fear, adding the leverage a curb bit offers can increase that fear.
A horse that is determined to take off, can and will run through any bit.
I agree. If the horse is bolting in terror any pain inflicted by the rider will just increase the terror. “Big bit” is completely counter-productive; all you can do is hunker down and wait for the horse to feel safe again. And if your horse ever learns that you may occasionally inflict severe pain to the horse while the horse is trying to get you both to safety (in the horse’s mind, whether true or not), that horse will never trust you again and the likelihood of a bolt in terror in future will increase. You want a horse to learn to trust you, that you can get the horse out of trouble and you always get the horse home safe, to turn to you for instruction when scary things happen. Horses who just runaway need remedial training in stopping aids, not sudden pain from a “big bit”.
I have had “fights” with Padrona but I have always chosen them very carefully and I have never put myself in harm’s way to prove a point or to win a fight. She’s never fallen down or been in danger. I’ll get off and school the horse on the ground for bad behavior then get back on when I feel it’s safe. I never get on that horse’s back unless I am sure she is 110% focused on ME. She’s just too darned hot to climb aboard when her brain is off in spaceland somewhere. She’s a great little mare with a great mind but I just know what sets her off. I ride her in a smooth beta nose hackamore and have no problems.
Once she refused to walk across a little bridge. It wasn’t fear, it was stubborness complete with pinned ears. After asking a few times nicely, I whalloped her with my legs. She leapt up in the air and did a double barrell kick. And then she was terrified of my legs for a while. Everytime I moved my legs, she would bolt forward. It took a while to get over that.
It’s a fact that if anyone ever put a big bit on that horse and set her down with it, she would be mentally ruined. Big bits and harsh training is ok for some horses, but not all of them. My other two on the other hand - eh, whatever. They wouldn’t care.
I agree that the rider is the #1 factor in horse behavior. But they do have different personalities and you can only cover that up so much. I am the same person day after day but the behavior of my two old fatties is totally night and day different from the behavior of my Arab.
This is classic! :lol::lol:
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