I think the trot work at 2nd level is supposed to be ridden sitting, yes?
Any deduction if I post the mediums?
Thanks 
Yes, all trot work at 2nd level is sitting. See DR 104:
āAll trot work is executed āsitting,ā unless otherwise indicated in the test.ā
Posting when not indicated is to be rung as an error of the course. See DR 122.5:
āIf a rider performs in a rising trot when a sitting trot is required, or vice versa, the bell must be sounded and the rider warned that this is an error that accumulates if repeated, leading to elimination at the third occurrence.ā
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I donāt know off the top of my head, but it should be stated on the test whether posting is allowed.
In this case the directive is in the rules (see Libby2563ās post above).
Although the statement is āALL trot work is executed 'sittingāā¦" some people get confused because itās not restated on the tests. (My coach is an āRā judge and gets this question all the time.)
So, yes, all 2nd level trot is sitting trot, and yes, posting the the mediums will (must) be penalized. The judge is required to ding you for rising, s/he has no choice but to do so.
I think this only got confusing when rising trot became optional at 1st level.
Before that, we just posted at Training Level and sat from then on except for lengthenings, and those were stated in the movement directives ("HXF: change rein, lengthen trot rising. F: working trot sitting)
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Hey, if you canāt sit at 2nd Level, you need to do some more schooling, or get bigger thigh blocks! 
(Not being mean, itās just that itās one of the things required by the testāand should be required since it only gets harder from there!)
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Being able to sit the collected trot and being able to sit the mediums are two different things. Some horses have trots that make the mediums very very difficult to sit.
OP, I know some people who āhoverā in the mediums, others who hook a finger or two under their bucking strap to help them through. Just be discreet about it.
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[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8776405]
Being able to sit the collected trot and being able to sit the mediums are two different things. Some horses have trots that make the mediums very very difficult to sit.
OP, I know some people who āhoverā in the mediums, others who hook a finger or two under their bucking strap to help them through. Just be discreet about it. ;)[/QUOTE]
Another option -if the rest of the work is good quality (aka you can pull off a lot of 7s), then just be very conservative in the mediums - take a 5 or 6 - it is just 2 scores in the entire test!
Everything from 2nd level on is sitting trot - no more posting allowed.
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[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8776405]
Being able to sit the collected trot and being able to sit the mediums are two different things. Some horses have trots that make the mediums very very difficult to sit.
OP, I know some people who āhoverā in the mediums, others who hook a finger or two under their bucking strap to help them through. Just be discreet about it. ;)[/QUOTE]
Yep, mediums can be a bear to sit on certain horsesā¦ And really, on every horse until you do enough of them. I donāt think I could REALLY sit my mediums until PSG. I used to do the pinky finger under the bucking strap trick - it just gives you a touch more stability.
Awesome, thanks guys so much!
I know I should be able to sit, but I have some health problems that make sitting somewhat difficult, though I seem to be OK during collected trot. The medium and extended trot give me angst. 
We have all the other movements down, so I donāt want to not move up to 2nd. I thought posting might be a deduction, I didnāt realize they had to ring the bell if you posted. So Iāll sit to the best of my ability, LOL. 
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If you have a disability, you could call your federation and ask for a Dispensation certificate. It should technically be somewhere in the rule book but a call might be faster and easier. 
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[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8776405]
Being able to sit the collected trot and being able to sit the mediums are two different things. Some horses have trots that make the mediums very very difficult to sit.
OP, I know some people who āhoverā in the mediums, others who hook a finger or two under their bucking strap to help them through. Just be discreet about it. ;)[/QUOTE]
Actually a girl at the last show I went to got huge dings for hover/ posting her mediums. I do not advise to attempt. Iād almost ride it more conservative than attempt to hover/post. Make up for the gaits in the free walk and the medium canter.
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OK, great, thanks guys!
I havenāt shown in years, so Iām kind of excited to try it again. Itās just a schooling show Iām going to now, so Iāll just be reserved with the mediums and take a lower score. Thankfully our canter work is really nice, so unless something weird happens, hopefully weāll come out OK.
If I decide to go for recognized shows, etc. I might look into the disability thingā¦
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[QUOTE=Hoofpick;8776974]
Awesome, thanks guys so much!
I know I should be able to sit, but I have some health problems that make sitting somewhat difficult, though I seem to be OK during collected trot. The medium and extended trot give me angst.
We have all the other movements down, so I donāt want to not move up to 2nd. I thought posting might be a deduction, I didnāt realize they had to ring the bell if you posted. So Iāll sit to the best of my ability, LOL. :p[/QUOTE]
BTW, Iād rather see someone get kicked to the cantle in a big, forward medium than see them barely try. Go for it, and continue working on how to sit better and follow the horse, as well as improving his medium so itās not too flat, or rushing, which makes it harder to sit.
If you look at the directives for both the lengthened trot at First Level and the medium trot introduced at Second Level, the key descriptive difference is āuphill balanceā.
Both call for a moderate lengthening of the frame and the strides. When you progress to extended trot, however, I believe that the frame is not expected to lengthen anymore. Something about the nose may be slightly more in front of the vertical but the frame should remain round with even more thrust from behind. Someone will correct me if thatās wrong.
Overall-- the emphasis is on uphill, and on thrust. The directives at the top of the Second Level tests say something about āuphill, especially at the medium gaitsā and then, in the body of the test when you get to the extended trot, it also says it should be āuphillā and with increased impulsion.
We tend to get caught up with making our medium trot dramatically increased in length. But what the test says, is that it should appear uphill and with thrust. With āmoderateā lengthening. It should be done seated, because the seat is a key aid in achieving more impulsion, a more uphill appearance, and in lots of more advanced work to come.
Itās all subjective and we know that some judges are scoring higher for the loooooooong strides and that flashy shoulder freedom. But if you concentrate instead on uphill and thrust from behind, as in the directives, then you āshouldā be on the right path, and āshouldā score well for it, even if your trot pass across the diagonal appears to be more conservatively ridden than the next pairās line.
Thatās how I see it, anyway. Itās new to me as well, and I find it difficult but I can āfeelā that itās more rewarding when it stays in balance even if the ground isnāt exactly flying past, the way I think it should be because Iāve seen Valegro.
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The judge is not required to ring the bell to give an errorā¦ but judges cannot give the same error twice unless they ring.
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[QUOTE=itgoeson;8777371]
The judge is not required to ring the bell to give an errorā¦ but judges cannot give the same error twice unless they ring.[/QUOTE]
What does this refer to? I canāt see anything in this thread about bell ringing or giving errors?
2nd post of thread
[QUOTE=Velvet;8777334]
BTW, Iād rather see someone get kicked to the cantle in a big, forward medium than see them barely try. Go for it, and continue working on how to sit better and follow the horse, as well as improving his medium so itās not too flat, or rushing, which makes it harder to sit.[/QUOTE]
I wouldnāt. When you start āflailing aroundā on your horseās back, it is bad for the horse - not comfortable for them, and it encourages them to stiffen and drop their back. Iād rather see someone post (even though it is an error) or ride it conservatively.
True, it can happen. But many horses are already used to their riderās limitations and are not easily upset or frustrated by that. Besides, I didnāt say flailing around. I said Iād rather see them kicked back to the cantle. Totally different things. One is that you end up using the back of the cantle to keep you in place, granted not the most perfect place, and allows you to follow a bit. Flailing would be badāgood thing I didnāt suggest it. :lol:
[QUOTE=itgoeson;8777371]
The judge is not required to ring the bell to give an errorā¦ but judges cannot give the same error twice unless they ring.[/QUOTE]
Although generally thatās true, the judge IS required to ring the bell for rising when sitting trot is indicated. Read all of DR 122.5(a):
āWhen a competitor makes an āerror of the courseā (takes the wrong turn, omits a movement, etc.) the President of the Jury warns him by sounding the bell. The President shows him if necessary the point at which he must take up the test again and the next movement to be executed then leaves him to continue by himself. However, in some cases when, although the competitor makes an āerror of the courseā, the sounding of the bell would unnecessarily impede the fluency of the performance for instance if the competitor makes a transition from medium trot to collected walk at V instead of at K or cantering up the center line from A makes a pirouette at D instead of at L it is up to the President to decide whether to sound the bell or not. However, if the bell is not sounded at an error of course, or error of test in which the movement, or a requirement of the movement, is repeated and the error occurs again, only one error is recorded. If a rider performs in a rising trot when a sitting trot is required, or vice versa, the bell must be sounded and the rider warned that this is an error that accumulates if repeated, leading to elimination at the third occurrence.ā
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