A friend bought a horse a couple of years ago for trail riding. He is doing something that I find really odd. We know the horse is straight in the stifles but other than a lump at the bottom of the hock (front of leg) the vet hasn’t found anything. When not under saddle this horse moves fluidly and freely, beautiful to watch. When we are trail riding when he walks each step in the front he drags his toes lightly across the ground. If she collects him he doesn’t do that. Doesn’t drag the toes on pavement. The thing that worrys me is she has always said she didn’t feel safe on him going down hill. He goes very slowly and takes little bitty steps. Yesterday she called me to stop and watch her coming down a steep hill that had roots growing across it. That blinking horse wasn’t picking up his front feet at ALL. Of course his feet were catching on roots and it’s a wonder they didn’t come down head first. She then gathered him up and he started picking up his feet but the right front was sorta paddling as they came down. Never seen anything like it. I wouldn’t ride that horse. I think he IS unsafe. She hasn’t had xrays done but she said Vet did hoof testers with no reaction. Does any of this ring a bell with anyone? Give any indication where a problem might be? She thinks he’s just lazy but, gosh, would he risk falling just because he’s lazy? I think there is something wrong with him and wouldn’t ride him until I found our for sure myself. I feel really bad for her as she paid a PILE of money for this horse and she does love him. He’s sweet as pie but she hasn’t felt safe on him since the day she got him. That can’t be fun.
Well, my older guy, who took very slow, careful steps downhill, was arthritic in the hocks. I never noticed him not lifting up his fronts and he didn’t trip, but he was slow. (I actually thought that was a plus, compared to running downhill, so I didn’t mind going slow and zig-zagging or dismounting where I could).
Could it be the hocks, and this guy doesn’t want to unweight his front end and put the weight on his hind becauses they hurt?
A couple of thoughts -
Your friend could ask her farrier to square off the front feet and trim the toe back a bit more. If the horse is shod, there are horseshoes with a rounded edge that helps the horse’s hoof break over more easily.
If the horse has any discomfort in his hind end, for example hocks or stifles, he may be trying to unweight his hind end going downhill, putting more weight on the front feet and is unbalanced. Her vet could do flexion and other tests to see if this is the case.
When going down a steep hill I sometimes put the reins in one hand and reach behind me with the other hand and grab onto the cantle of the saddle. That way if the horse does trip and go down in front, you are able to keep from pitching over his head! If you have to scramble down a steep bank into a creek this works great.
Did she have his blood checked for vitamin/mineral deficiencies? Also maybe test for EPSM?
Just a few thoughts about your friend’s horse.
If it were my horse, first I’d check saddle fit first and especially saddle fit of the horse with the rider in the saddle. Also - and no criticism of the position of the rider intended as I haven’t seen the rider - but if the combination of saddle fit and the saddle putting the rider in an unortunate physical position is causing this, it’s a fairly easy fix though perhaps with the cost of new tack not an inexpensive one!
Secondly, I’d maybe look at shoeing/trimming issues and strategies. It is helpful to video the horse both mounted and at liberty at various gaits and then review the video in slow motion or even freeze frame to pick up motion abnormalities or idiosyncracies; it’s even more helpful if the farrier is willing to watch the video too. I guess I’m lucky that my BF, a retired prosthetics/orthotics professional (human style) is a complete geek on gait analysis for every living creature and can spot an irregularity missed by most - and he knows pretty much how to cope with it! Can’t take him to shows, though - he gets too mad about the lame and potentially lame in the ring.
Finally - how old is this horse? Sometimes an older horse has some degenerative joint disease issues which can be helped by joint supplements and - oh, I know I’m going to be bashed for this but here goes - use of rounded leather straps fitted at the foreleg pasterns which move just a bit along the margin above the coronet band as the horse moves; it is a gentle reminder to pick up forefeet. This is not a training device like gaited horse rattlers but rather something sort of akin to TTouch wand stroking and tapping of the lower forelegs and hooves. No, I’m not a TTouch practitioner, just found these methods to be very helpful with an older gelding that had some stumbling and toe dragging issues.
It is hard to think of being unable to trailride with a relaxed rain, after all the whole idea is to mosey along with everyone enjoying the companionship of horse, human and nature! But for a horse with gait abnormalities, regardless of the cause, balance changes sometimes dramatically between collected and relaxed work. If the owner paid a great deal for the horse (and/or is deeply bonded) it would be worth doing some analysis of why the horse is moving oddly on different terrain and perhaps doing some basic flatwork, mounted and unmounted, as a sort of physical therapy.
Good luck, it is disappointing and challenging when these situations occur!
[QUOTE=GilbertsCreeksideAcres;3620175]
Did she have his blood checked for vitamin/mineral deficiencies? Also maybe test for EPSM?[/QUOTE]
She did have blood work done when she got him and it showed him to be a bit anemic so they put him on red cell. No test for epsm though. I’ll suggest to her that they check for this. Thanks.
[QUOTE=kung fu buckskin;3620186]
Just a few thoughts about your friend’s horse.
If it were my horse, first I’d check saddle fit first and especially saddle fit of the horse with the rider in the saddle. Also - and no criticism of the position of the rider intended as I haven’t seen the rider - but if the combination of saddle fit and the saddle putting the rider in an unortunate physical position is causing this, it’s a fairly easy fix though perhaps with the cost of new tack not an inexpensive one!
Secondly, I’d maybe look at shoeing/trimming issues and strategies. It is helpful to video the horse both mounted and at liberty at various gaits and then review the video in slow motion or even freeze frame to pick up motion abnormalities or idiosyncracies; it’s even more helpful if the farrier is willing to watch the video too. I guess I’m lucky that my BF, a retired prosthetics/orthotics professional (human style) is a complete geek on gait analysis for every living creature and can spot an irregularity missed by most - and he knows pretty much how to cope with it! Can’t take him to shows, though - he gets too mad about the lame and potentially lame in the ring.
Finally - how old is this horse? Sometimes an older horse has some degenerative joint disease issues which can be helped by joint supplements and - oh, I know I’m going to be bashed for this but here goes - use of rounded leather straps fitted at the foreleg pasterns which move just a bit along the margin above the coronet band as the horse moves; it is a gentle reminder to pick up forefeet. This is not a training device like gaited horse rattlers but rather something sort of akin to TTouch wand stroking and tapping of the lower forelegs and hooves. No, I’m not a TTouch practitioner, just found these methods to be very helpful with an older gelding that had some stumbling and toe dragging issues.
It is hard to think of being unable to trailride with a relaxed rain, after all the whole idea is to mosey along with everyone enjoying the companionship of horse, human and nature! But for a horse with gait abnormalities, regardless of the cause, balance changes sometimes dramatically between collected and relaxed work. If the owner paid a great deal for the horse (and/or is deeply bonded) it would be worth doing some analysis of why the horse is moving oddly on different terrain and perhaps doing some basic flatwork, mounted and unmounted, as a sort of physical therapy.
Good luck, it is disappointing and challenging when these situations occur![/QUOTE]
Saddle fit was the first thing I thought of but <g> she told me right quick it wasn’t the saddle.
Lucky you having a bf like that. Wish I did but guess my old husband would fuss about it.
This horse is appx. fifteen and I’ll pass your idea of the leather straps on to her. She has just ordered joint suppliments for him. Should be here Monday. Thanks.
[QUOTE=bit-o-honey;3620171]
A couple of thoughts -
When going down a steep hill I sometimes put the reins in one hand and reach behind me with the other hand and grab onto the cantle of the saddle. That way if the horse does trip and go down in front, you are able to keep from pitching over his head! If you have to scramble down a steep bank into a creek this works great.[/QUOTE]
Great idea. Wish I’d been doing that once when coming down a steep hill and my horse stepped in a rotted tree hole up to his knee. Probably wouldn’t have gone over his head so ungracefully.
Is it possible he has been nerved?
How long has he been doing this ?
Is it possible his front feet were nerved before she bought him ?
[QUOTE=3Spots;3620166]
Well, my older guy, who took very slow, careful steps downhill, was arthritic in the hocks. I never noticed him not lifting up his fronts and he didn’t trip, but he was slow. (I actually thought that was a plus, compared to running downhill, so I didn’t mind going slow and zig-zagging or dismounting where I could).
Could it be the hocks, and this guy doesn’t want to unweight his front end and put the weight on his hind becauses they hurt?[/QUOTE]
I’m wondering about hocks, too, and she may just have to bite the bullet and have him throughly vetted. Think she’s afraid of what she’ll find out.
LOL 3spots I’d rather go down slowly with a horse with a problem, too, but if there is no problem I really feel safer getting on down the hill. Not running but always felt that the longer each foot stayed on the ground more chance of slipping. Where we ride we do tend to have red clay that is very slippery when wet.
NERVED!!! YIKES never even thought of that! How do you tell? That would be awful.
Well, sometimes what looks like a great saddle fit changes with a rider in the saddle and does so especially if the rider is put in a less-than-optimum position in the saddle. I used to teach sidesaddle (as well as hunt, dressage and saddleseat) and with sidesaddles even more than cross saddles the smallest fit and balance issues coupled with the addition of a rider’s weight - however properly or improperly s/he rides - is startlingly magnified in the horse’s gait. If it were me I’d look pretty closely at how the saddle fits while she is actually riding and look for pressure points at the withers, behind the withers on the spine, at the loin area and especially at the back part of the large shoulder muscle.
Someone else had the suggestion of shoe changes and I second the rolled toe idea - not half round shoes as IMO those are dangerous on both trails and hard surfaces and really only safe in an arena with manicured footing, though I know others disagree with this, it’s just my own idiosyncracy about these. I’d also go with a wide web shoe set “full” and I would have the farrier dub the back toes just a bit and perhaps add short trailers on the hind shoes for a little additional support.
As far as joint supplements, the one I found best for older horses (and I think I must have field tested everything on the market at one time or another, well I sure with I had that discretionary income back!!!) is synova-cre. This stuff is hard to find and is not inexpensive especially if you buy it from the vets who seem to be mostly the ones who stock it. Second choice would be nu-flex maximizer with Ester-C - and darned if I don’t suspect that it’s really the Ester-C that is the key ingredient! No proof of that, just a hunch. But I found both of these to be extremely effective on the older horse, more so than many other popular joint support products.
Best wishes for this horse, it sounds like everyone is willing to go the extra mile to help him attain full (safe) use.
[QUOTE=kung fu buckskin;3620221]
Well, sometimes what looks like a great saddle fit changes with a rider in the saddle and does so especially if the rider is put in a less-than-optimum position in the saddle. I used to teach sidesaddle (as well as hunt, dressage and saddleseat) and with sidesaddles even more than cross saddles the smallest fit and balance issues coupled with the addition of a rider’s weight - however properly or improperly s/he rides - is startlingly magnified in the horse’s gait. If it were me I’d look pretty closely at how the saddle fits while she is actually riding and look for pressure points at the withers, behind the withers on the spine, at the loin area and especially at the back part of the large shoulder muscle.
Someone else had the suggestion of shoe changes and I second the rolled toe idea - not half round shoes as IMO those are dangerous on both trails and hard surfaces and really only safe in an arena with manicured footing, though I know others disagree with this, it’s just my own idiosyncracy about these. I’d also go with a wide web shoe set “full” and I would have the farrier dub the back toes just a bit and perhaps add short trailers on the hind shoes for a little additional support.
As far as joint supplements, the one I found best for older horses (and I think I must have field tested everything on the market at one time or another, well I sure with I had that discretionary income back!!!) is synova-cre. This stuff is hard to find and is not inexpensive especially if you buy it from the vets who seem to be mostly the ones who stock it. Second choice would be nu-flex maximizer with Ester-C - and darned if I don’t suspect that it’s really the Ester-C that is the key ingredient! No proof of that, just a hunch. But I found both of these to be extremely effective on the older horse, more so than many other popular joint support products.
Best wishes for this horse, it sounds like everyone is willing to go the extra mile to help him attain full (safe) use.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! I will be passing all information to her.
Yes, she will do what she has to do to help this horse. She loves him and he’ll have a home however it turns out. She’s really hoping it can be fixed as she’s like me, old, retired
and hoping the horses don’t get All of our money before we die. She’s already got one ancient horse with a good many special needs standing there and really doesn’t want two just standing and have to add a third.
I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and so will she.
My lad has always been slow and picky going downhill in walk, right from breaking as a 3 year old.
I think his conformation makes it difficult for him to carry weight downhill
even if i just lead him down the hill he likes to go slow (ETA he’s so awkward going downhill i prefer to lead him rather than ride)
I take this horse for dressage lessons with a lovely and knowledgable trainer who would let me know in seconds if my horse were lame or stiff at all
he failed flexion tests as a 4 year old when vetted but has never had any problems or lamess apart from bruised feet.
he’s been seen by a chiro and all is well there
so i guess it’s just the way he is made - he’s such a nice horse i can put up with it though
I hope your friends horse is ok 
btw my horses full brother has a shiver, and i put my horse on the EPSM diet as a precaution and he has improved in a lot of ways, fitness, weight, alertness, stamina
but his strange down hill walk hasn’t improved
Problems going down hill can also be caused by neuro issues as well. Do you live in an area that has EPM?
[QUOTE=Simkie;3620255]
Problems going down hill can also be caused by neuro issues as well. Do you live in an area that has EPM?[/QUOTE]
I have never known of anyone with that problem but I imagine so. Am going to suggest that be checked, too.
Well, I have 2 identical looking Euroriding saddles, one is a wide the other a narrow-medium.
One DUH morning, mind occupied with other things, I tacked up my one ‘wide’ horse and accidentally put the medium saddle on him.
My warm-ups consist of 20 minutes uphill/downhill walking.
I just didn’t understand why my horse suddenly kept stumbling going downhill, nearly going onto his knees.
Where I often give him a slack-ish rein when walking, I was shortening my reins collecting him, but he was really stumbly going downhill.
Only when I was in the ring did I suddenly realized I had put my other horse’s saddle on!
So I’d say ‘do’ check saddlefit. Has she tried walking him downhill bareback? Definitely worthwhile a try. If he does it bareback too, then you at least know for a fact it’s not saddle-related!!
[QUOTE=Lieslot;3620595]
Well, I have 2 identical looking Euroriding saddles, one is a wide the other a narrow-medium.
One DUH morning, mind occupied with other things, I tacked up my one ‘wide’ horse and accidentally put the medium saddle on him.
My warm-ups consist of 20 minutes uphill/downhill walking.
I just didn’t understand why my horse suddenly kept stumbling going downhill, nearly going onto his knees.
Where I often give him a slack-ish rein when walking, I was shortening my reins collecting him, but he was really stumbly going downhill.
Only when I was in the ring did I suddenly realized I had put my other horse’s saddle on!
So I’d say ‘do’ check saddlefit. Has she tried walking him downhill bareback? Definitely worthwhile a try. If he does it bareback too, then you at least know for a fact it’s not saddle-related!![/QUOTE]
Good idea. Thanks. I’m going to “make” her try that. Would be a good first thing to check.
LOL cheapest, too.
I would like to see pix of the feet as well. I have had a few clients who had horses who couldn’t go down hill very well. Feet were returned to a more healthy state and now horses cruise down the hills.
Just a thought amongst all the other suggestions
Regards,
