Reasons for horse having trouble getting up?

[Marzie]

I have a little horse who is making a real effort of getting up. He sits up like a dog, then bends his front legs and rocks himself with them til he can pull himself up with his fronts instead of push with the hinds.
He is hypermobile, in that his fetlocks drop excessively during movement (but ok standing). Suspensories were scanned and it showed mild chronic damage to left hind proximal suspensory. I asked if he could have DSLD and vets said it’s just chronic damage (DSLD isn’t much heard of here). He’s a very erratic mover in that it’s very hard to keep him straight and rhythmical, every leg seems to do it’s own thing, like trying to lead an eel. Incredibly sensitive, super easy to train. Lacks self preservation, will gallop and leap without thinking if his feet are under him when he lands or corners. Has taken some big falls doing this, both in the field, in hand and under saddle (2 falls under saddle on the flat in his lifetime, 1 in hand a few weeks ago, and at least one a year in the field that I see). Possibly all linked to being hypermobile.

He flexed ok to hocks and fetlocks, mild positive to left hind fetlock. Palpated as sore over thoracic and lumbar but muscular, x-rays of back are clear. He reins back well, resists tail pull, places feet back in right place when I placed them wrong (although he often leaves one at a random angle himself). Osteopath said his hips seems very tight and sore. But no one can help me to find the key to why he can’t get up easily. He’s a very high energy horse, very forward and enthusiastic, does have RER (muscle myopathy linked to calcium regulation) but recent bloods show normal CK and AST, normal liver, just waiting for vitamin E to come back.

He is not insured. I feel like I could spend thousands trying to diagnose him as don’t know if it’s neuro, gut, hind limb, back. If I find something fixable I’m happy to do what it takes to make him a happy retired horse.

Long story short, have you had a horse that pulled themselves up/struggled to get up, and what was their diagnosis?

Many thanks.

[Equisis]

I have known two that presented in a similar way. Both were neurological in nature. Where are you located? Have you xrayed his neck?

[Marzie]

We are across the pond in the UK. Last time he went into vets I was hoping they would X-ray beck but they said he gave them no reason to think he was neurological (backed up great, tight circling fine)) I was a bit disappointed that they didn’t. After one osteo appointment I saw him get up much more easily, but then he suddenly went lame again with a weird crouching walk two days ago and getting up was harder again. Another 24 hours and the crouching walk has stopped.

[Obsidian_Fire]

The upper hock joints could be a problem. Friend of mine has a mare with upper hock joints who are shot, and she has similar troubles getting up/down - altho nowhere near as dramatic as yours.

Also, just because your vets aren’t well versed in DSLD, does not mean that isn’t your whole problem. I can easily see where that ‘hypermobility’ could cause all these issues.

And yes, I agree could be neuro.

[JB]

Stifles, hocks, SI, hip, any or all could be involved. It takes a LOT of effort to heave that hind end up from the ground.

Do you notice it being harder when he’s laying on one side vs the other?

Does it look like he’s trying to do all the pushing with his hind end, or is he actively using his neck as well?

[Marzie]

@JB

Stifles, hocks, SI, hip, any or all could be involved. It takes a LOT of effort to heave that hind end up from the ground.

Do you notice it being harder when he’s laying on one side vs the other?

Does it look like he’s trying to do all the pushing with his hind end, or is he actively using his neck as well?

He is equally bad both sides. I don’t think he uses his neck very well. I Would say he tried to do most of the work with his front legs and shoulders, using them to claw the ground and rock to create momentum to then get his hind end up. He bobs his head a bit but when I compare it to our older horse with dodgy hocks he makes it look so much harder. Older horse really uses the whole head and neck to lever down and forwards and pings the back end up easily.

[Marzie]

@Obsidian Fire

The upper hock joints could be a problem. Friend of mine has a mare with upper hock joints who are shot, and she has similar troubles getting up/down - altho nowhere near as dramatic as yours.

Also, just because your vets aren’t well versed in DSLD, does not mean that isn’t your whole problem. I can easily see where that ‘hypermobility’ could cause all these issues.

And yes, I agree could be neuro.

He flexed ok on the hinds other than right hind fetlock, would he flex ok if upper hock was an issue? I definitely agree that DSLD could still be an issue, it’s not really something you hear of over here so I did ask but they said his left hind suspensory was normal. But I do wonder if he is trying to avoid putting pressure through his hypermobile fetlocks, as if he doesn’t trust them.

[JB]

Good info, so it really would be worth starting at his front end, neck and withers, as opposed to the hind end. That’s not right at all, poor guy :no:

[Marzie]

@JB

Good info, so it really would be worth starting at his front end, neck and withers, as opposed to the hind end. That’s not right at all, poor guy :no:

I definitely should have pushed my vets harder when we were at the clinic for neck xrays. Not really their fault as typically when he went in he looked great, trotted up well, they even let him roll and he got up better than usual, so I can see why they dismissed the idea of neck.

[skydy]

Ii might be helpful to have a cell phone handy, to video his abnormal movement and difficulty rising. You can then show the videos to your vet.

[Marzie]

@skydy

Ii might be helpful to have a cell phone handy, to video his abnormal movement and difficulty rising. You can then show the videos to your vet.

I do this obsessively! I must have about 30 videos now of him getting up. Plus my phone gallery is full of shots of his legs, his posture, his eyes/expression, trot ups, slow motion etc. But still they can’t tell me why he is having such a hard time.

[skydy]

It’s surprising that the vets saw your videos of his struggle to rise, and not having a diagnosis, thought that neck x-rays were unnecessary.

@Lunabear1988 has had horse with neuro problems diagnosed recently https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/10694674-neuro-or-young-horse-learning-about-balance

[Marzie]

@skydy

It’s surprising that the vets saw your videos of his struggle to rise, and not having a diagnosis, thought that neck x-rays were unnecessary.

@Lunabear1988 has had horse with neuro problems diagnosed recently https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/10694674-neuro-or-young-horse-learning-about-balance

Thanks for the link. It’s like the vets are thinking more of the lameness and not necessarily about the getting up issue, which may or may not have the same cause. He doesn’t obviously fail neuro tests but Neck seems a fairly simple thing to check off with a quick X-ray to rule out the obvious.

[Lunabear1988]

@Marzie yeah I would push for neck x-rays. My horse was a little wonky in one neurological exam (but not too extreme at all. Mostly the tail pull is what stood out) but basically passed a Neuro exam at the clinic. Until he had a freakish fall. Then they thought neck.

My horse hasn’t yet shown trouble getting up as far as struggling. But I think he’s laying down less. And the other day he got half way down (to his knees) and decided to scrape laying down and rolling. So I wonder if he thinks he might have trouble or if it’s getting hard for him to lay down.

Best wishes!! I hope it’s nothing major.

[Marzie]

@Lunabear1988

@Marzie yeah I would push for neck x-rays. My horse was a little wonky in one neurological exam (but not too extreme at all. Mostly the tail pull is what stood out) but basically passed a Neuro exam at the clinic. Until he had a freakish fall. Then they thought neck.

My horse hasn’t yet shown trouble getting up as far as struggling. But I think he’s laying down less. And the other day he got half way down (to his knees) and decided to scrape laying down and rolling. So I wonder if he thinks he might have trouble or if it’s getting hard for him to lay down.

Best wishes!! I hope it’s nothing major.

Thank you so much and I’m sorry to read about your horse. It’s just heartbreaking trying to do right by them. Part of me thinks if he can’t get up easily it’s time to call it a day. But I feel I need to give it a last shot in case there is something solvable that we just haven’t found yet. Vets didn’t do a full neuro exam when he went in, probably because he decided to look so good, pinged along the trot up and on the lunge and got up fine when they let him roll. I did some of the tests at home. He seems to place his legs back ok. Tail pull I just did standing and pulled him over on the first pull one side but then resisted well on second pull. The other side he resisted straight away. So I think generally ok. But there must be something. No other horse I know gets up with this much effort. I might try to set the camera up to record today.

[Lunabear1988]

@Marzie it’s unreal. I thought I was paranoid. I wish I was…

Your horse might not be presenting neurologically but I sure would wonder about pain somewhere. I would think it could be so many things though to manifest that way! You are a good owner to keep looking into this.

One question, you said his back x-rays were clear? Did they also do an ultrasound? My horse has lumbar arthritis that was only found through ultrasound for what it is worth. Of course most vets do both, so you might of had it done already.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

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[Marzie]

@Lunabear1988

@Marzie it’s unreal. I thought I was paranoid. I wish I was…

Your horse might not be presenting neurologically but I sure would wonder about pain somewhere. I would think it could be so many things though to manifest that way! You are a good owner to keep looking into this.

One question, you said his back x-rays were clear? Did they also do an ultrasound? My horse has lumbar arthritis that was only found through ultrasound for what it is worth. Of course most vets do both, so you might of had it done already.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

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Yes back Xrays were clear with regard to kissing spine but no ultrasound done as far as I’m aware.

i did go up this morning and tried to do some of the neurological tests with my phone set up to video. Tricky as I was on my own. Obviously I’m not a vet but doing the tail pull at walk (him walking loose in arena) I was able to pull him way over really easily, and when I raised his head and walked him up hill he started to stagger a bit behind and walk on his toes.

ive just showed my vet the videos and they have brushed me off, saying neuro testing isn’t the right way to go. I disagree with them but perhaps I’m delusional.

[jetsmom]

For now, while trying to figure out,i would try him on Bute for about 5 days.
If its neuro, you won’t see any difference. Pain related you most likely will see a difference in a day or 2. The pain relief if thats the issue, will occur quickly, but it may take him a few days to change how he gets up, once he realizes it no longer hurts.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Marzie

Lacks self preservation, will gallop and leap without thinking if his feet are under him when he lands or corners. Has taken some big falls doing this, both in the field, in hand and under saddle (2 falls under saddle on the flat in his lifetime, 1 in hand a few weeks ago, and at least one a year in the field that I see). Possibly all linked to being hypermobile

Falling in the field, under saddle, in hand would have me be thinking neuro or at least have neck checked for this. If he is falling unpredictably, I’d be very hesitant to ride him.

Can you consult with a different vet/practice since you feel maybe the one that has looked at him maybe isn’t doing a thorough enough workup?

[Ponycatraz]

My EPM horse presented this way. No other signs other than the difficulty standing up and he had to sit like a dog before he could make it. So I’m voting neurological as well though I know you don’t have EPM native In the UK.

Since my horse was an older off the track STB we thought hocks/SI, etc. After clean xrays and ultrasound and a clean bill of health from the lameness vet we started looking at neuro causes.