rebound reaction to ace and/or sedivet?

[tisor]

has anyone noticed their horses having a rebound reaction to sedatives?

Mine, i think we’ve finally all agreed at my barn, is just not great on ace. He’s a rehab case. He gets hyper vigilant on ace and odd and the next day he’s even worse. We tried him yesterday on sedivet and he was fantastic! just trotted around beautifully as other horses jumped around him. without any of the toe dragging ace will give him. Just easy but forward. I thought we’d found his cocktail.

This morning I pulled him out all optimistic and happy about giving him a nice lunge, doing a little ground work and I lo and behold I was flying a kite again. Worse than he was before the sedivet.

Without the sedatives he’s actually fine on the ground, just challenging under saddle because he happens to also be very green. But the day after… again… ugh… and now with this new stuff.

It seems logical to me that any drug with neurologic affects would also have a rebound effect but everyone looks at me like I’m crazy when i mention it.

Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Buehler?

[gumtree]

Due to the nature of part of my horse business I have a lots/years of experience with Ace with lots of different TBs of different ages and reasons to be using it.

I have never experienced what you have described.

“without any of the toe dragging ace will give him”

This should never happen if given the proper dose for the horse. Unless there is a reason. Certainly not for riding. Even ones that are on a rehab program don’t get “dosed” to that level.

Lots of horses open a day’s Hunting with some Ace. The last thing a rider wants out hunting is a horse that is “toe dragging”.

[candico]

I have one that always seems to have a rebound effect right after it wears off. This includes Dorm and Xylazine. I believe it can be an indication of the liver having a bit of an issue with it.

[ShotenStar]

I have never seen a rebound 24 hours after the dose was given. I have owned horses who fought all kinds of sedation at the time it was given – not fighting the shots but fighting the effects. Two of my mares require 1.5 doses of most sedatives in order for the vet to work on teeth, etc. And they are still far more alert and reactive than most horses on less sedation.

If you want to just ‘slow him down’ a little to make riding safer for you, you might try some antihistamines. I’ve used cherry flavored children’s Benadryl when I needed a horse to be just a little more mellow – 20 to 30 cc’s, depending on the horse, given about 30 mins before a ride. The effect lasts about 2-3 hours. Can be dosed or added to some feed.

star

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=ShotenStar;8201287]
I have never seen a rebound 24 hours after the dose was given. I have owned horses who fought all kinds of sedation at the time it was given – not fighting the shots but fighting the effects. Two of my mares require 1.5 doses of most sedatives in order for the vet to work on teeth, etc. And they are still far more alert and reactive than most horses on less sedation.

If you want to just ‘slow him down’ a little to make riding safer for you, you might try some antihistamines. I’ve used cherry flavored children’s Benadryl when I needed a horse to be just a little more mellow – 20 to 30 cc’s, depending on the horse, given about 30 mins before a ride. The effect lasts about 2-3 hours. Can be dosed or added to some feed.

star[/QUOTE]

Benadryl is not legal for USEF competitions - correct?

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;8201302]
Benadryl is not legal for USEF competitions - correct?[/QUOTE]

None of the drugs under discussion thus far are permissible in competition horses.

[hunterprincez]

I have been enjoying the fun and excitment of rehabbing my guy for the past year. Ace did nothing for him. He could come out of it and try to kill me in a heartbeat. I have been using Sedivet for about the last 4-5 months on and off depending on what was going on in his treatment. I love it. I have never noticed the side effects you are talking about. My horse also got hives this spring while he was on stall rest. When I inquired about antihistamines my vet was a little leery about them for him. She said they can have negative side effects on horses causing them to get hyper instead of sleepy. We did not want that so we just rode out the lumps and everything was all good in a few weeks

[judybigredpony]

I agree with Gumtreen…I have had with Vet guidance for rehab used every narcotic combination under the sun and never had a “rebound” effect in 45 years…

[retrofit]

I rehabbed my horse using Sedivet. Over time I was able to back the dosage down until I was using 1/4 of what I started with. When I tried him without, he was a total lunatic. At the time I attributed it to coming off a long layup and ensuing insanity. Now that you ask, maybe it was a bit of rebound effect. All I know is it definitely took a week of lunging (there goes the concept of “controlled exercise” …) and several weeks of watching him like a hawk on turnout before he was normal again. He was just absolutely explosive, and it didn’t take “an event” to set him off. I’m still working on trust.

[tisor]

I have definitely heard from h/j folks as well as those on the track that some horses just have a weird reaction to ace. mine, from my observation is definitely one of those. he was great though on sedivet and what i witnessed as rebound was only one event. maybe he just had a really great night’s sleep… that said, any neurologist will tell you that any central nervous system depressant can and usually will have a rebound effect in humans - which is why alcohol cessation can cause seizures - so why only in human animals?

I’ll just keep keeping an eye on him.

[Dune]

Is this your same “baby” horse I remember from years back? If so, wow, have you been through it with him! :-/

[tisor]

yes… this is that baby. now 7 going on 3 in training. can you believe it?

Saturday on sedivet for the first time. rehabbing post stifle surgery for the stifle he screwed up while he was fracturing the trochanter for which he was laid up nearly a year then rehabbed nearly another year before we found the cartilage mess on the stifle…

https://www.facebook.com/maryjo.tisor/videos/10207000171222667/?pnref=story

i may have a horse now but man o man

[Dune]

[QUOTE=tisor;8205419]
yes… this is that baby. now 7 going on 3 in training. can you believe it?

Saturday on sedivet for the first time. rehabbing post stifle surgery for the stifle he screwed up while he was fracturing the trochanter for which he was laid up nearly a year then rehabbed nearly another year before we found the cartilage mess on the stifle…

https://www.facebook.com/maryjo.tisor/videos/10207000171222667/?pnref=story

i may have a horse now but man o man[/QUOTE]

Wowsers, you poor thing, you have been through it!