I have a colt that I will be starting next spring. Over the years I have moved further and further away from bits and this fellow I would like to start in a bosal.
I live in Denmark, but have a friend who will be visiting the US soon and I would like him to bring one home for me. Recommendations for where to buy one online would be appreciated and what specific features to look for or avoid.
Thanks, Lisa
This is what we have used for a good 50 years.
It is a homemade type, made out of old grass rope for the nose part and an old type Johnson halter for the fiador.
Pine Johnson, the one that trained Poco Bueno, is the one that standarized this type in the early 1950’s and many copied it and it became standard for many trainers influenced by the cutting trainers.
You can make them out of most anything, some are made out of nylon rope nose, Valley Vet catalog has several.
From those, we like the double rope for the nose part better than the single, as nylon rope tends to have a lot of bite.
Whatever you use, always, always remember it is how you use it, that you have the concept of how to use them in your head and have learned to explain it to the horse well, if you use a halter, hackamore or any kind of bit.
HOW you go about communicating with a horse is what is important, whatever tools you use.
Now, in the West Coast, the buckaroo tradition, they tend to use rawhide braided hackamores, the thicker ones first, then tapering down to thinner ones.
Many of those trainers start with a snaffle, then go to the bosal for a while, then back to the snaffle.
Others, not as many, start with those bosals.
What is important to remember, not every horse respond to those rawhide, thick bosals, some may run thru it, the less sensitive ones, or the ones a ham handed rider trains, there is an art to using those bosals properly.
The rope nose ones are set a bit lower, work thru a bit different principles as they apply pressure to the nose and are more forgiving, don’t tent to leave a hard bump on the tender horse’s nose bones as the rawhide ones may do on some horses.
Those have to be fitted just right, are very stiff and bulky and tend to bop horses along as they travel, you can see that in many videos out there.
Horses learn to work despite that, ignoring the bopping on their noses.
Here are some examples of our nose rope hackamore, yes, they are plain looking.
The other type, the thicker, braided hackamores, those you can find many examples of beautiful ones on the internet, some real work of braiding art:
Good info, but DO NOT buy from here:
http://www.calclassics.net/php/buy/bosals/
Good options to buy:
http://johnloree.com/
http://www.billblackbraiding.com/
http://jasonjaeger.webs.com/
http://martinblack.net/product-category/hackamores
http://www.buckaroobusinesses.net/bosalspg1.html
Completely different than what is posted above.
I thought about going that route, but my trainer swayed me into a sidepull.
Where in Denmark do you live? I have a friend who moved over in January. She lives in Billund. Went to visit her in April, what a beautiful place!
Wow, some of these bosals are pure ARTWORK! And unfortunately for me, priced accordingly.
Anything cheaper than what’s listed is a waste of time, honestly. If you avoid the decorative interweaves, they can be a little cheaper, but $200 is about min. Tack store bosals that I’ve seen are usually cheaper, but basically all junk. Nose buttons WAY too long, too big in general.
Remember you’ll need a matched mecate as well. All four of mine are Doug Krause made.
One more warning, if you use a thicker, rawhide braided bosal, those have the side cheek leather attachment forward, for balance, which makes them at times hit the horse’s eyes as the bosal moves around.
If you have that situation, add a light string under the jaws to keep that from happening when you are training and have to use the bosal more actively.
There are many videos on youtube showing people handling horses with bosals and you can see there how they work, if that is what you want to consider.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7820207]
This is what we have used for a good 50 years.
It is a homemade type, made out of old grass rope for the nose part and an old type Johnson halter for the fiador.
Pine Johnson, the one that trained Poco Bueno, is the one that standarized this type in the early 1950’s and many copied it and it became standard for many trainers influenced by the cutting trainers.
You can make them out of most anything, some are made out of nylon rope nose, Valley Vet catalog has several.
From those, we like the double rope for the nose part better than the single, as nylon rope tends to have a lot of bite.
Whatever you use, always, always remember it is how you use it, that you have the concept of how to use them in your head and have learned to explain it to the horse well, if you use a halter, hackamore or any kind of bit.
HOW you go about communicating with a horse is what is important, whatever tools you use.
Now, in the West Coast, the buckaroo tradition, they tend to use rawhide braided hackamores, the thicker ones first, then tapering down to thinner ones.
Many of those trainers start with a snaffle, then go to the bosal for a while, then back to the snaffle.
Others, not as many, start with those bosals.
What is important to remember, not every horse respond to those rawhide, thick bosals, some may run thru it, the less sensitive ones, or the ones a ham handed rider trains, there is an art to using those bosals properly.
The rope nose ones are set a bit lower, work thru a bit different principles as they apply pressure to the nose and are more forgiving, don’t tent to leave a hard bump on the tender horse’s nose bones as the rawhide ones may do on some horses.
Those have to be fitted just right, are very stiff and bulky and tend to bop horses along as they travel, you can see that in many videos out there.
Horses learn to work despite that, ignoring the bopping on their noses.
Here are some examples of our nose rope hackamore, yes, they are plain looking.
The other type, the thicker, braided hackamores, those you can find many examples of beautiful ones on the internet, some real work of braiding art:[/QUOTE]
I have read you promoting your nose bands before. You are very high on them. Your take the time to say, the tool is not as important, but then seem to suggest that your nose rope thingy is better than a true hackamore.
I find it odd that you set those things on the cartilage of the horse’s nose, then say that rawhide hackamores tend to leave a hard bump on the horse’s nose, because they are on tender nose bones? It suggest some pretty crude use of one, and lead me to believe you don’t really understand a hackamore.
I don’t see where your thing has any release, and would have to be used more like a sidepull, which is very different. I don’t see how they are “more forgiving”. I just don’t like mis-information about bosals.
Why not? I don’t know anything about them but remember seeing their website when I was shopping for my bosal.
My bosal by Bill Black is lovely and like a piece of art and I treat it accordingly. My mecate is also by Doug Krause - I get many compliments on the workmanship and finery of both. Mac has a really big nose so I do use a little tieback to keep the hangers away from his eyes.
I have a Steve Guitron bosal, hanger and mecate. He had a deal going at an expo I was at (geese, it’s already 6 years ago???!!!). He’s pretty affordable but some people don’t like his bosals. Al Dunning sells some on his website. I like mine and it works well for us. Here’s a photo of it on my horse (takes a minute to load):
http://www.bigdaddyphotography.net/#/gallery/june-2014-vcha/laura-rene-johnsovch614img-1348/
Lost Buckaroo has some affordable Jose Ortiz bosals. I LOVE his stuff (have a bosalita, mohair mecacte and several headstalls by Jose Ortiz). Lost Buckaroo also has killer custom made chinks if you are in the market for some - they are going to be my next purchase. :yes:
In my opinion, Steve Guitron bosals are too wide across the nose. The shape of a good bosal should be more oval, and fit closer to a horse’s face. Otherwise, it just rocks side to side on the bridge of the nose, and will sore them. You need to shape them so that they conform more to the horses face…
Bill Black makes some of the best these days, I think. There are others as well.
[QUOTE=Wirt;7820462]
I have read you promoting your nose bands before. You are very high on them. Your take the time to say, the tool is not as important, but then seem to suggest that your nose rope thingy is better than a true hackamore.
I find it odd that you set those things on the cartilage of the horse’s nose, then say that rawhide hackamores tend to leave a hard bump on the horse’s nose, because they are on tender nose bones? It suggest some pretty crude use of one, and lead me to believe you don’t really understand a hackamore.
I don’t see where your thing has any release, and would have to be used more like a sidepull, which is very different. I don’t see how they are “more forgiving”. I just don’t like mis-information about bosals.[/QUOTE]
I am not “promoting” anything, just explaining what I know and why it is so, according to my experience and the many trainers I have conversed about this over the years.
There are several concerns with bosal use and those are part of any conversation about if, when and how to use them.
If I had to show in a class that required those, I too would train and show with one, but for starting colts or every day riding, whoever uses those has to know all the little details of them, as they do any other tool or technique they may use on their horses.
I expect the OP is asking to hear all kinds of responses, not just some filtered, glowing ones only.
Thank you all for your input. Yes, I want to hear all pros and cons and various opinions and then I’ll decide what sounds like the best fit for me and for my colt. I have never used a bosal. I strive for as light and subtle contact/non-contact as possible, and have finally concluded that a bit in the mouth is a somewhat crude way to acheive that, for me. I ride endurance and my 7 year old homebred/broken mare goes on a loose rein with a little-S hackamore. I have always broken with a snaffle and then gone to a hackamore, but I can’t really see the point of the time with the bit.
Just my own opinion and experience.
Cheers, Lisa
Just think about this, a bosal is set where it hangs pointing up in front, but where does it go when you pick the reins?
Down across the nose, so it moves several inches to get there and that is when the cheek pieces tend to push into the eye.
Also if you exert any side pressure at all, the same can happen.
Yes, you hang those bosals high up on the nose, but they pivot as the horse moves or you use the reins and that puts them all over the nose there, they don’t stay up there.
To insist that they should be hung like that so they don’t put pressure below flies in the face of how they move when you use them.
A really good horseman will have horses well balanced under them no matter what they use on a horse’s head or if they don’t use anything.
Some gear makes it easier to teach a horse what we want, others, all I can say, it is good that horses are smart enough to figure what we want, the way some go about making it a puzzle for the horse, not as easy as it could be.
On why horses should be taught to work with a bit, well, there may be the time when it is best to use one, it is part of every horse’s training to learn to respond in as many ways as people may use to communicate.
The sorrel horse in my picture, with the colts, was a finished cutting horse and that time, for convenience, we were riding thru the brush, we put a hackamore on him, but he would go just as well with any other we used, snaffle or grazing bit or whatever.
When training for the public, or horses that some day someone else may ride, it is best to have a horse understand standard ways people communicate and bits are some of those.
You don’t have to use a bit most of the time if you don’t have to, but it is nice to know the horse can work with one.
Who knows, maybe some day your horse may have something wrong over his nose and a snaffle is an option to keep it fit while riding.
Here is some information about bosals and their adjustment and use:
If you’re looking to make endurance horses, I wouldn’t suggest going this route. You want those horses to drink as much as possible, and a bosal/hair mecate rig would get ruined with constant exposure to water. I’m hoping next year to start legging up a horse for endurance, and my choice will be a sidepull.
If you’re looking to make a western horse, then a (California-type) hackamore is a wonderful tool. Not super forgiving without instruction, however.
I do find it interesting that you associate bosals with “bitless” however, since they’re really the first link in the chain towards a bridle bit.
Regardless, bosal reviews:
Own Jaeger and (Bill) Black bosals, would recommend without hesitation
Have closely studied Loree bosals (he’s local to me), and have one on order
Have closely studied Martin Black’s bosals, and they’ll certainly work, but lack a little of the “pretty” of the others.
Pocket Pony - I’ve had some friends have trouble getting gear from CalClassics
[QUOTE=aktill;7820919]
If you’re looking to make endurance horses, I wouldn’t suggest going this route. You want those horses to drink as much as possible, and a bosal/hair mecate rig would get ruined with constant exposure to water. I’m hoping next year to start legging up a horse for endurance, and my choice will be a sidepull.
If you’re looking to make a western horse, then a (California-type) hackamore is a wonderful tool. Not super forgiving without instruction, however.
I do find it interesting that you associate bosals with “bitless” however, since they’re really the first link in the chain towards a bridle bit.
Regardless, bosal reviews:
Own Jaeger and (Bill) Black bosals, would recommend without hesitation
Have closely studied Loree bosals (he’s local to me), and have one on order
Have closely studied Martin Black’s bosals, and they’ll certainly work, but lack a little of the “pretty” of the others.
Pocket Pony - I’ve had some friends have trouble getting gear from CalClassics[/QUOTE]
Yes, bosals have their place and it is with those that want to follow the old vaquero tradition in itself, just because of what it is.
There are other uses, like this fellow here, don’t know who he is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HfnJ6lRBaA
You can see here how some bosals do pivot up and down in horse’s faces.
Not all do this much, you can pick softer, less stiff ones, smaller around ones, shape them and adjust them tight and keep that to a minimum, but there is some movement that is hard to avoid the bigger around they are, pure physics at work there if hung as tradition demands.
If you want to use one to learn to use one, get some instruction and see where that takes you, we can’t ever learn enough.
For your purpose, not being familiar with bosals and their uses, as Aktill explained above, that may not be what you want to go to, but do learn all you can, it is very interesting, knowledge is never wasted.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7820717]
Just think about this, a bosal is set where it hangs pointing up in front, but where does it go when you pick the reins?
[B]Down across the nose, so it moves several inches to get there and that is when the cheek pieces tend to push into the eye.
Also if you exert any side pressure at all, the same can happen.
Yes, you hang those bosals high up on the nose, but they pivot as the horse moves or you use the reins and that puts them all over the nose there, they don’t stay up there.
To insist that they should be hung like that so they don’t put pressure below flies in the face of how they move when you use them.
[/B]
A really good horseman will have horses well balanced under them no matter what they use on a horse’s head or if they don’t use anything.
Some gear makes it easier to teach a horse what we want, others, all I can say, it is good that horses are smart enough to figure what we want, the way some go about making it a puzzle for the horse, not as easy as it could be.
On why horses should be taught to work with a bit, well, there may be the time when it is best to use one, it is part of every horse’s training to learn to respond in as many ways as people may use to communicate.
The sorrel horse in my picture, with the colts, was a finished cutting horse and that time, for convenience, we were riding thru the brush, we put a hackamore on him, but he would go just as well with any other we used, snaffle or grazing bit or whatever.
When training for the public, or horses that some day someone else may ride, it is best to have a horse understand standard ways people communicate and bits are some of those.
You don’t have to use a bit most of the time if you don’t have to, but it is nice to know the horse can work with one.
Who knows, maybe some day your horse may have something wrong over his nose and a snaffle is an option to keep it fit while riding.
Here is some information about bosals and their adjustment and use:
http://www.calclassics.net/php/buy/bosals/[/QUOTE]
For on thing, the hackamore should not be moving several inches. It should just rock, rotate, at the nose button, so it should not move any more than it’s own width. They do not travel all over the nose as you say. If it is moving more than that, it is not a good bosal or a good fit. Or you just don’t know how one should work.They should never hang on to the cartilage. Hung correctly, they will not move on the nose to the degree you suggest.
As to the hanger moving into the eye, it is not a huge problem, and can easily be remedied with a tie string under the jaw. How high the hanger is depends on the length of the nose button.
They are also not meant to be used laterally as a nose pull. They are not meant to be pulled at from the side. So you have to educate yourself how to teach your horse to flex properly in one.
To say the problem with a hackamore is that you have to learn how to use one is silly. Heaven forbid we should have to have any qualifications to train a horse. Just slap a halter or side pull on them, and anyone can do it?
Here is a video of a working cowhorse class, where the bosal has been properly shaped and adjusted to the horse’s head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-TmOEGL6xc
Handy that the horse has that snip, that we can use to see how high it is adjusted, above it, that is lower than many say it should, but still it ends, when it is being used, lower, partly into the white part of the snip.
That is one of those that move the least that I have seen and still, there is up and down movement, is the nature of the beast and part of what horses learn to work thru.
As I said, there are all ways to train and ride horses, for some, training with bosals works for what they do.
My point, lets think thru what we do, every little part of it and learn from it ourselves, lets not take any we hear or read for granted, as it may just be what we can use, or maybe we should not go there.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7820990]
Here is a video of a working cowhorse class, where the bosal has been properly shaped and adjusted to the horse’s head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-TmOEGL6xc
Handy that the horse has that snip, that we can use to see how high it is adjusted, above it, that is lower than many say it should, but still it ends, when it is being used, lower, partly into the white part of the snip.
That is one of those that move the least that I have seen and still, there is up and down movement, is the nature of the beast and part of what horses learn to work thru.
As I said, there are all ways to train and ride horses, for some, training with bosals works for what they do.
My point, lets think thru what we do, every little part of it and learn from it ourselves, lets not take any we hear or read for granted, as it may just be what we can use, or maybe we should not go there.[/QUOTE]
I know I come across as not liking anything. LOL
But there are way better examples of a hackamore horse than that.
Funny, as much as I like Al Dunning, I didn’t like the way he was using that hackamore in that other video.
The hackamore training I know is nothing like using a snaffle.
My personal horses I start in a hackamore…two rein… spade progression.
For other horses I use a snaffle, partly because I start a lot of dressage and jumping horses.
Here is my input.é
Even Les Volgt, known as a champion hackamore (bosal ) competitor, starts his horses first in a snaffle.
He has won many bosal World championships in working cowhorse
I myself would often show a jr horse in a bosal, but that horse was first trained with a snaffle, and I have had very good trainers at clinics tell me when I showed up with a bosal on my horse, to put on a snaffle, as I would get more done
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