Recommended stallions for an older mare (Connaisseur? UB40?)

[RuhRoh01]

Hello!! I have an older mare (21) that I am considering breeding this year. She is currently in foal for an early June baby (caught first cycle with fresh cooled semen) and if she comes out of the pregnancy well and everything looks good I might go ahead and breed her again for 2015. Just wondering if anyone else has any experience breeding mares of that age. She has only had 2 foals (at age 12 and 16) and is in great shape. Although she is around 15.3 hands she is a very long mare with a lot of capacity.
Both foals were big and correct. The '09 gelding was bred and born on our farm and out of a homely pony stallion. “Fred” is now over 16 hands and still growing. He is very free through his shoulder, balanced, uphill and very scopey (the knees to eyeballs type), his temperament is second to none - very laid back, not spooky, dominant and brave yet very trainable.

I would like to improve this mare’s structure (toes out RF, long back, short/steep croup, and sickle hocked), walk, canter, and rideability need improving as well (she is very smart and very dominant - not the best combination for an amateur). I would like to stay within the $1500 range with a LFG. Jumping or Dressage, doesn’t matter to me, I just want a healthy foal

I really, really liked Connaisseur … but he is in West Vancouver and I am in Virginia, and I am concerned that even though he has excellent shipped semen that might be a bit far for cooled semen. Thoughts on this one?

Thanks in advance!!

[pinto_power]

Go look at the line up of stallions at Dreamscape Farms.
http://www.dreamscapefarm.com/
In Canada; however Jennifer ships semen to the USA all the time. Excellent service.
Several of her stallions may be a match for you mare.
I have used Sagnol, Banderas, Freestyle and Bon Balou myself.
Jennifer will give you a very honest opinion of how her stallions can help your mare… if you email her.
UB40 is know to be a tad ‘hot’ …may not suit your mare. Not familiar with Connaisseur…but they I think only ship M-W-F…not the best for mares who may not read the text book!
Best of luck
Martha

[RuhRoh01]

Thank you for the reply. Do you have any pictures of the foals you got out of the Dreamscape stallions?

[pinto_power]

You have a PM
Martha

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=RuhRoh01;7355665]
Thank you for the reply. Do you have any pictures of the foals you got out of the Dreamscape stallions?[/QUOTE]

It would be difficult for a foal to be “out of” a stallion… Sorry, with the Pet Peeve rant currently going on, I couldn’t resist.

I saw Connaisseur in April and he is absolutely stunning. I am hoping they will go through with Hanoverian approval with him because I am eager to breed one of my mares to him. The owner is young and really nice to deal with. He is listed as having M-W-F collection but when I spoke with the owner she did say she could make exceptions on an individual basis. This is her first stallion so she is relatively new to stallion ownership/collection etc. but she is working with a repro vet with an excellent reputation (Dr. Juan Samper) who does much of the repro work in that area.

[bkkone]

I’m in love with Connaisseur!

I have worked with Dr. Samper and he is a world class repro vet. I think the cooled from Vancouver to VA wouldn’t be a problem.

[winter]

I bred my older mare last year at 21 and she lost the foal. It was heartbreaking. It was her fourth consecutive pregnancy and all of the others had been easy conceptions and deliveries. The third foal had contracted tendons and I wonder now if that was a result of reduced plancental quality.

With the fourth foal she conceived first try and looked beautiful and healthy right up until she foaled at around 300 days. The foal was small but did not appear dismature except for her severly lax tendons. She could not stand or nurse. We bottle fed her and took her to the clinic where she deteriorated quickly. We had to euthanise at 48 hours old. She never stood on her own. It was devastating. I don’t know if it was the mare’s age that caused the early delivery, but I can’t help but wonder. There were no signs of impending delivery from the mare. I chose not to breed her again and she is now retired.
I know there are many happy cases of older mares delivering healthy foals but I think there are risks as well (as there are with any pregnancy).

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=RuhRoh01;7355496]
Hello!! I have an older mare (21) that I am considering breeding this year.

Although she is around 15.3 hands she is a very long mare with a lot of capacity.

I would like to improve this mare’s structure (toes out RF, long back, short/steep croup, and sickle hocked), walk, canter, and rideability need improving as well (she is very smart and very dominant - not the best combination for an amateur). [/QUOTE]

I truly mean no disrespect here, but simply want to voice an opinion: it sounds like your mare has a lot of adverse qualities that would be difficult for any stallion to overcome – stallions are just that, stallions – and are not miracle workers when it comes to improving the entire structure.

I had a well known breeder once (who is very accomplished and additionally bred my favorite horse, a successful *** horse) tell me that when it comes to selecting a stallion you have to honestly look at the mare: you have to look at her the way you would look at a bag or purse. The stallion will put things of value to the “bag” - a Prada clutch, some chocolates, a Rolex watch (e.g a refined head, sweet temperament, athleticism). But if the bag itself has a hole[s] in it, the items in it fall through and are lost/cannot be given to someone else. It is a strange analogy, but I truly understand the concept behind it - if your mare does not already have the qualities to retain and pass on those qualities, then it is very unlikely the qualities you are looking for will be expressed in the foal.

I think it is great that you’ve gotten two foals on the ground that have been an improvement over your mare, but IMHO (and take this with a grain of salt) I would not breed a mare that had more than one conformational issue. You listed four conformation issues that your mare has, which I think is a tall order for any stallion to overcome, regardless of quality. In addition, if she does not have at least something of “value” you would like to pass on to a foal, why are you breeding her? I understand the sentimental aspect of it, but from what you mentioned in your post, you are basically looking for a “different” horse, not a duplicate of your mare. You mention her rideability is difficult, which keys in with temperament - you listed several faults in her structure – if there is not one thing you’d like to see passed on, perhaps another mare is better for your agenda? In the breeding world I’ve often heard the phrase 60% mother, 30% father.

Just a thought!

[RuhRoh01]

[QUOTE=beowulf;7357770]
I truly mean no disrespect here, but simply want to voice an opinion: it sounds like your mare has a lot of adverse qualities that would be difficult for any stallion to overcome – stallions are just that, stallions – and are not miracle workers when it comes to improving the entire structure.
Just a thought![/QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct. I guess I failed to mention her strong points and my plans for the foal in my original post… kind of important, and I can see where you are coming from with that response. My main goal if I were to breed this mare once more would be to have a healthy foal that I can bring along once I am out of college. Sure, she has her areas that could use improving, but honestly I would be perfectly happy with a carbon copy of her (she has a beautiful head and neck with a wonderful expression, I would also consider her gaits to be above average with her trot being a particular highlight with plenty of swing and elasticity). Trust me I wouldn’t be breeding her if I didn’t feel she was worthy (who could afford it anyway??). Also, I have yet to sit on a horse that has given me the same feeling this mare would in the show ring – she was difficult to train but a phenomenal show horse.

You do have excellent points, and I probably look pretty silly for wanting to breed a hot headed limousine-of-a-horse with bad hocks, but I really want to learn more and gain experience breeding sport horses … even if I am making this even more of a crap shoot than it already is. :winkgrin:

Thanks again for the advice (and analogies)!

[Majestic_Gaits]

Navarone can improve on most of those qualities and especially puts super ridability and temperament on the offspring. They are all around offspring that jump, dressage and event. A favorite for any rider. Email me pictures and pedigree of the mare and we can see what we can do to help you with the price.

Kathy