One day you’ll bring strangles or EHV into your barn.
It’s never an issue until it is.
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Not an issue not buying auction horse’s anymore. Bought last one earlier this year, old gelding that needed a soft landing.
OP get a vet out to check teeth and do a fecal. All the feed in the world, won’t help if bad teeth and full of worms. Being horse was a kill pen horse it had nothing done, teeth wise or worming wise.
And that is how literally the whole barn got strangles when I boarded with someone who did that.
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The danger with neglect cases is “killing them with kindness”. And when I say that, I LITERALLY mean “kill”.
People want to get the horse back up to weight as fast as possible. This is the WORST thing you can do, The worse the horse’s condition, the SLOWER you put on weight. Obviously you know to wean him on to any grain… but you can’t wean a starved horse onto grain like you would a horse who’s generally healthy. Putting too much in his system now could literally kill him.
First, just put as much nice GRASS hay in front of him as possible, so he’s got it 24/7. Grass, not alfalfa. Put a vitamin POWDER supplement in a bowl-- he’ll eat it if he wants. Don’t use vitamin pellets or sweetened powder, you want him to eat only what he needs, not poison himself because it’s yummy. In a week or so add in a bit of richer grass or legume hay, maybe 1/4 of his hsy ration. The next week make it 50% of his hay ration. In a week or two after that, give him a handful of low starch, low sugar feed. And so on and do forth.
Resist the temptation to work him up to a large quantity of grain. Once his vitamin and mineral needs are met by the grain (which doesn’t require a huge amount), any additional calories should come from introducing oil. A horse can easily be worked up to a full cup of oil or more with each feeding. Oil is pure fat, no sugar, and prevents impaction colic. It doesn’t interfere with the absorption of the other feed. It’s the perfect weight supplement, and gives them a lovely shiny coat.
I know it’s hard to hold back, and you might even feel like you’re still neglecting him. But trust me, doing too much too fast kills horses. Most of the improvement you want should come from loads and loads and loads of hay. Supplements should be used to adress actual deficits. Hard feed should be used sparingly-- I can’t stress enough the fact that just because he’s underweight compared to a normal horse DOESN’T MEAN his body can handle/processes more hard feed than a normal horse! The exact opposite is true. Use oil if he needs more weight.
I wish I could remember where I read this (possibly even here, years ago), that the safest de-worming protocol is Safeguard pellets (alfalfa based), followed in 2 weeks by Equimax paste, or ay least just Ivermectin. There have been many reports of mouth sores caused by Zimectrin Gold, so whenever I have wanted to use a combined Ivermectin and Praziquantel, I have used Equimax, with no ill effects to the horse.
The UC Davis protocol not only works, but is science-based. Please ignore the post above that says grass hay. Use the UC Davis protocol, which calls for ALFALFA because it is high in protein, which is the most crucial thing.
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ceh/lo…12-bkm-sec.pdf
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Melly died from EHV-1. It wasn’t pretty, and the state mandated quarantine afterwards wasn’t fun either.ANY horse from anywhere really should be QT’d. It’s just smart
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Did the OP ever update with what ‘neglect’ in this case means, or how much underweight the horse is?
There’s nothing wrong with grass hay. Not everyone can get alfalfa, at least not what is remotely affordable. Good grass hay will do 
However, when at all possible, alfalfa is THE hay of choice for re-feeding starved horses, as explained in the UC-Davis protocol. It is very beneficial.
The bigger deal with alfalfa, moreso than just protein, is the high nutrient content and its easy digestibility. That is the best way to start getting the nutrients back into the body without overloading his system with supplements and fortified feeds.
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Yes, re-feeding syndrome is “killing them with kindness”. It’s so tempting to throw everything at them to get them "fat and shiny asap, but that can easily over-tax a body that’s been too malnourished for too long, and organs shut down 
First, just put as much nice GRASS hay in front of him as possible, so he’s got it 24/7. Grass, not alfalfa.
Alfalfa is THE gold standard for re-feeding starved horses. That doesn’t mean good grass hay can’t work, but the nutrient and digestibility benefits of alfalfa are better.
Put a vitamin POWDER supplement in a bowl-- he’ll eat it if he wants. Don’t use vitamin pellets or sweetened powder, you want him to eat only what he needs, not poison himself because it’s yummy.
No supplements until he’s at least on free choice alfalfa (or whatever the best quality grass hay, or mix, can be found). And then, the first thing should be to wean on to a good ration balancer, or regular feed, depending on how his weight is doing with the hay.
There is no suitable “vitamin powder” (or pellets, or any other form) for horses to offer free choice. Perhaps you are thinking of a loose mineral supplement. Those aren’t bad, for sure, but not something to start with. And there aren’t many minerals at all that horses know how to self-regulate. Salt for sure, maybe, possibly, sometimes calcium and phosphorous. That’s it.
In a week or so add in a bit of richer grass or legume hay, maybe 1/4 of his hsy ration. The next week make it 50% of his hay ration. In a week or two after that, give him a handful of low starch, low sugar feed. And so on and do forth.
Only once he’s been on free choice hay for at least a few weeks
Resist the temptation to work him up to a large quantity of grain. Once his vitamin and mineral needs are met by the grain (which doesn’t require a huge amount), any additional calories should come from introducing oil. A horse can easily be worked up to a full cup of oil or more with each feeding. Oil is pure fat, no sugar, and prevents impaction colic. It doesn’t interfere with the absorption of the other feed. It’s the perfect weight supplement, and gives them a lovely shiny coat.
vegetable oils are digested, and do not prevent impactions of any sort.
Fat is not inherently a bad choice for calories, but if by “huge amount” of grain, you mean 4-5lb, I very much disagree with going straight to fat for more calories. There is nothing wrong with 10-12lb of a quality, low NSC fortified feed for any horse, let alone a horse like this. There no need to make this sort of horse re-adapt his digestion, again, to deal with fat. Down the road, sure, if you feel like you can only maintain weight on 12-15lb of feed, then by all means reduce that a bit and add some fat.
Hard feed should be used sparingly-- I can’t stress enough the fact that just because he’s underweight compared to a normal horse DOESN’T MEAN his body can handle/processes more hard feed than a normal horse! The exact opposite is true. Use oil if he needs more weight.
A horse’s body has to make changes to be able to properly digest fat. There’s no need to put a horse like this through that until he’s in a much better place, and that might be a while.
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ACTUALLY, had you bothered to read past the first sentence of the second paragraph, you’d have seen I actually advocated weaning the horse onto alfalfa in the second week, and increasing the ration to half alfalfa by the 3rd wee.
I know reading is time consuming, but perhaps at least just skimming comments will suffice to clue you in that you’re completely mistaken in the conclusion you jumped to.
Furthermore more, I absolutely stand by my advice, with the assumption this horse is in exceptionally poor condition (and not just a bit underweight). A horse in an extremely neglected state is often actually experiencing minor organ failure, as the diet of the horse has been in sufficient to support or require normal metabolic function. They’re also almost always experiencing vitamin and mineral deficits. They require an easy introduction to bland food to get everything running again, at which point richer food can be reintroduced. Perhaps you’re not aware, but high protein diets place higher demands on the kidneys, and the high calcium content of alfalfa can be a concern in situations where phosphorus and other necessary minerals aren’t present to balance the diet. For this reason I recommend a week of high quality grass hay before introducing alfalfa. And I LOVE alfalfa-- it’s my primary choice of hay, and what I fed when I owned my premium performance horse boarding/training stables until last year.
However, I also don’t live in lala land and enjoy reading more than 1 paragraph of comments and sources.
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me: “In a week or so add a bit of richer grass, or legume hay. Maybe 1/4 of his ration.”
Only once he’s been on free choice hay for at least a few weeks
Alfalfa is legume hay.
vegetable oils are digested, and do not prevent impactions of any sort.
False. While indeed most vegetable oil is digested, digestion happens at many points throughout the digestive system. A significant quantity of vegetable oils ABSOLUTELY can help prevent impaction colic. While not the same as mineral oil in digestability or quantity, it is very similar in texture. Obviously, mineral oil is the first thing most vets administer in the case of impaction colic. And while there’s no doubt a tablespoon of vegetable oil won’t do diddly for colic, a moderate quantity absolutely will.
If you don’t believe me, go drink a cup of vegetable oil and let us know what happens.
Fat is not inherently a bad choice for calories, but if by “huge amount” of grain, you mean 4-5lb, I very much disagree with going straight to fat for more calories. There is nothing wrong with 10-12lb of a quality, low NSC fortified feed for any horse, let alone a horse like this. There no need to make this sort of horse re-adapt his digestion, again, to deal with fat. Down the road, sure, if you feel like you can only maintain weight on 12-15lb of feed, then by all means reduce that a bit and add some fat.
A horse’s body has to make changes to be able to properly digest fat. There’s no need to put a horse like this through that until he’s in a much better place, and that might be a while
Actually most feeding research regarding hard feed is now showing that high fat content is generally far and away safer than high sugar ir starch. Horses simply don’t have a problem with fat, and to the contrary it’s generally accepted as the ideal component to add calories to hard feed.
Vegetables oil is fairly inert, and while many horses initially dislike the texture, it does NOT require-- as you assume-- an adjustment by their digestive tract, and certainly not in the potentially and very commonly fatal way that grain does.
I do not consider 4 or 5 lbs of low sugar grain to be a huge amount, provided the horse it worked up to it. However grain in naturally unsuited to the horse’s digestive tract. Horses did not evolve to eat large, concentrated meals. They obviously didn’t evolve to eat vegetable oil either, but vegetable oil is significantly more inert, and has the potential to positively affect the formation of ulcers and impaction colic. What the digestive system doesn’t use is simply excreted by the body. It certainly doesn’t cause/aggravate founder, ulcers, PSSM, and many other things such can often be directly correlated with hard feed.
To be clear, I don’t advocate feeding nothing but hay and oil. However, once the vitamin and mineral contribution of a grain has been maxed out, if increased weight is desired it would be wise for owners to search out more benign options rather than simply giving larger and larger portions of grain. Hay should be the first choice, including an increase in quality and quantity. However oil is a safe and effective supplement to hard feed, and can in fact potentially mitigate some potential issues with hard feed.
Matilda, in your original post number 27, you said ‘First, just put as much nice GRASS hay in front of him as possible, so he’s got it 24/7. Grass, not alfalfa.’
Maybe you already forgot what you said…
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Actually, @Mathilda, if you’d read the articles, you’d see that
“The alfalfa hay had the best results due to its high composition of quality protein, but also the major electrolytes phosphorous and magnesium. Since alfalfa is very low in carbohydrate content, there were minimal effects due to insulin response” and THAT is why alfalfa is the preferred method of STARTING the re-feeding process, as opposed to grass hays or, in the case of that study, oat hay or “a commercially available complete feed consisting of grain, molasses, fat, and alfalfa”.
Starting point is best with alfalfa. Not starting on grass and weaning on to alfalfa (which I’m very aware is a legume 
)
Actually, it doesn’t - it occurs mainly in the small intestine where bile starts helping it break down - break down, emulsify, not coat.
A significant quantity of vegetable oils ABSOLUTELY can help prevent impaction colic.
Cite? As in, scientific proof?
While not the same as mineral oil in digestability or quantity, it is very similar in texture.
It has nothing to do with texture, and everything to do with the fact that vegetable oil is digested, and mineral oil is not
Obviously, mineral oil is the first thing most vets administer in the case of impaction colic. And while there’s no doubt a tablespoon of vegetable oil won’t do diddly for colic, a moderate quantity absolutely will.
Again, cite? And why would a vet not want to do vegetable oil? There’s a reason they always choose MO.
If you don’t believe me, go drink a cup of vegetable oil and let us know what happens.
Well of course, that’s because of a serious digestive upset, which I would think you wouldn’t to do to any horse You can cause the same reaction by giving him a large meal of soaked wheat bran too. Does that mean wheat bran prevents impaction colics?
Actually most feeding research regarding hard feed is now showing that high fat content is generally far and away safer than high sugar ir starch
Of course, but irrelevant here. The fact that higher fat is safer than higher starch does NOT mean you just start dumping oil into a horse who is in the process of being re-fed.
. Horses simply don’t have a problem with fat, and to the contrary it’s generally accepted as the ideal component to add calories to hard feed.
Again, irrelevant to this situation. And I never said fat is not an unhealthy thing to feed. And a horse needing more calories than the bare minimum of a fortified feed does not mean feeding more includes feeding a high starch diet. There are some really low NSC , high quality fortified feeds out there, which are perfectly fine and good to feed in double the minimally recommended amounts. There’s more to a horse gaining healthy weight than calories alone, and fat should not be the first thing to add when you’re only feeding the bare minimum of feeds. There should be a reason for the fat, such as a PSSM horse for example. These horses need a great deal of nutrition to help rebuild those tissues to health. And fat is not part of that in the amounts you’re talking about. Not yet.
Vegetables oil is fairly inert, and while many horses initially dislike the texture, it does NOT require-- as you assume-- an adjustment by their digestive tract, and certainly not in the potentially and very commonly fatal way that grain does.
Inert? What the heck? It absolutely does require the digestive tract time to adjust to digesting oils. It takes 3-4 weeks for them to be able to get the most out of the oil being fed.
http://esc.rutgers.edu/fact_sheet/th…ine-nutrition/
“Horses can digest up to 20 % fat in their diet, but it takes a span of 3 to 4 weeks for them to adjust.”
I do not consider 4 or 5 lbs of low sugar grain to be a huge amount, provided the horse it worked up to it. How
ever grain in naturally unsuited to the horse’s digestive tract.
Good thing there are enough low NSC, no-grain feeds out there
Horses did not evolve to eat large, concentrated meals.
They did not evolve to eat more than 3-4% fat in their diet either
They obviously didn’t evolve to eat vegetable oil either, but vegetable oil is significantly more inert, and has the potential to positively affect the formation of ulcers and impaction colic.
I have no idea what your definition of “inert” is
Corn oil - not soy oil, not flax oil - has had 1 small study that showed some positive effect in healing ulcers, though they have no idea why. But I’ll wait for your cite on its ability to prevent impaction colics.
What the digestive system doesn’t use is simply excreted by the body. It certainly doesn’t cause/aggravate founder, ulcers, PSSM, and many other things such can often be directly correlated with hard feed.
sigh Just because there are some feeds out there much too unsuitable to feed any horse, much less a re-feed horse, does not mean oil is the answer. Or even fat in general. There are lots of excellent quality, forage-based, no-grain, low NSC feeds that provide many more benefits to the horse than just fat.
To be clear, I don’t advocate feeding nothing but hay and oil. However, once the vitamin and mineral contribution of a grain has been maxed out, if increased weight is desired it would be wise for owners to search out more benign options rather than simply giving larger and larger portions of grain.
You didn’t say maxed out, you said “Once his vitamin and mineral needs are met by the grain (which doesn’t require a huge amount), any additional calories should come from introducing oil.”
Hay should be the first choice, including an increase in quality and quantity. However oil is a safe and effective supplement to hard feed, and can in fact potentially mitigate some potential issues with hard feed.
I don’t disagree with this, nobody does. You’re just coming at it from the wrong end of things, both from the order (ie alfalfa is best from the start, not grass, though grass will do when necessary), and from what both oil is (inert??) and needing (apparently) to introduce it far too early in the process.
That doesn’t mean just pick the cheapest high sugar feed and stuff it into the horse. But too many people want to just pack on the calories without considering the nutritional needs, which may not be met simply from feeding “not a huge amount” of hard feed.
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Mathilda, there are plenty of horses who won’t touch feed with oil in it…i own one of those horses. Who wants to mess with oil feeding in winter months i sure don’t. Any updates from OP on how this new kill pen horse is doing??
Agreed. Please update!
I did some searching and found a thread by this poster in off course. Title of thread is…New horse needs a dignified name. And there’s a link to pictures of this horse who is very thin. Someone smarter than me could probably post a link to this thread might help greatly. Horse by the way came from an auction not a kill pen according to this post in off course. Never hurts to do some sleuthing.
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I’d consider auction essentially the same as a kill pen. The ones that don’t sell get “moved on.” But I will go look on Off Course.
From OPs other post horse is missing most of his teeth. So all the hay in the world will do this horse no good, with no teeth to chew it. This horse needs to be on a complete senior feed to replace his forage and for his nutrition. Could add alfalfa pellets or cubes into the soaked feed. But feeding hay really isn’t even an option here.
Update:
Sorry ,I kind of dropped off of here for a while. My new boy is doing wonderfully. He is putting on weight in a steady manner that I am comfortable with and he is looking better and better. He is on TC Senior feed and all the hay he can eat (and trust me he loves his hay). At one point I thought he was missing a lot of his teeth but I am just an idiot and that’s not the case (I blame it on lack of sleep and inability to get a thorough look… lol). I did end up putting him on a joint supplement and a hoof supplement. We pulled his shoes and it was clear he had substandard hoof care, and with the borium shoes the farrier suspects he did come from the amish. He does however ride very well. He had a vet work up and his fecal came back okay- vet suggested deworming him with quest plus in addition to the panacur that I had done. He said his teeth actually look pretty good so we are going to hold off on floating them until January/February. He does have a cyst on his sternum and looks to have the beginnings of ringbone, but he is sound as of right now. He did have a tear in his frog that I took care of which caused some minor lameness in his left hind, but he is good as new now. As for where he came from, he went through New Holland and then up to Cranbury, where I was bidding against a kill buyer. So although I didn’t pull him from the 10 pen directly, he could have very well ended up in the slaughter pipeline.
Here are some updated photos of him they can be seen here http://s32.photobucket.com/user/olk9shannon/library/?view=recent&page=1 . I think he is looking great- still needs to gain some weight but I am happy with how he is looking after 3 weeks.
