Recycled wood chip bedding. What do you think?

[Scribbler]

I’ve been reading COTH forums for a while, but finally registered because I have a question for your collective wisdom! Our riding club is looking into going with a local company that takes your used stall bedding (you pay shipping costs), cleans and purifies it, adds essential oils for a nice smell, and then sells you back the product in bags. From what I’ve seen, the resulting bedding is the consistency of degraded hog fuel: small pieces, not fluffy shavings. It does seem very clean and dry.

Our decision will be based partly on how the total cost will compare to our current system, where we pay to have the bedding hauled to a place that uses it for compost. That part we have to figure out ourselves, of course.

However I was wondering if anyone has used this kind of product before? If so, how did you like it as bedding? The company says there is a place in Florida using it, I believe a racetrack?

Any thoughts?

[Hermein]

'I wonder if you’re talking about pelleted bedding. If you are, I use it and prefer it to shavings. I’ve also been told that it’s used at some of the race tracks here (California). What I buy is actually soft wood mill sawdust that’s turned into pellets and sold as bedding or pellet stove fuel. The difference is that the pellets for the stoves have less moisture than the bedding pellets. I buy the stove pellets because they cost less & one of the sales reps told me that I could put a hose into the sack, fill it up with water, then dump and spread the pellets in the stalls. It smells wonderful and the horses seem to like it, too.

If you do use the stuff you’re thinking of, be sure that it’s not made from hard wood because some of the hard woods can cause founder.

I think that “hog fuel” is wood chips–similar to what you’d use in landscaping Is that right?

[Hermein]

'I wonder if you’re talking about pelleted bedding. If you are, I use it and prefer it to shavings. I’ve also been told that it’s used at some of the race tracks here (California). What I buy is actually soft wood mill sawdust that’s turned into pellets and sold as bedding or pellet stove fuel. The difference is that the pellets for the stoves have less moisture than the bedding pellets. I buy the stove pellets because they cost less & one of the sales reps told me that I could put a hose into the sack, fill it up with water, then dump and spread the pellets in the stalls. It smells wonderful and the horses seem to like it, too.

If you do use the stuff you’re thinking of, be sure that it’s not made from hard wood because some of the hard woods can cause founder.

I think that “hog fuel” is wood chips–similar to what you’d use in landscaping Is that right?

[TrueColours]

No - Scribbler isn’t talking about pellets

http://greensceneagritek.ca/

Its a company / companies that actually take soiled bedding, put high heat to it to sterilize it, and run it back through the machine again and package it as wood chips / shavings.

We flew out several years ago to BC to chat with the fellow that was selling the concept. At the time that’s all it was - a concept - and he had 1 machine there where he could show what came out the other end and a barn that used the product that we could see.

The bedding was darker then ideal - much more so than shavings and lighter than peat moss. It also had an “earthy” smell that wasn’t pleasant or unpleasant. It smelled “peaty”.

I think the biggest hurdle would be the esthetics, the earthy smell and the fact that you don’t know if there was a sick horse in that stall that the bedding was removed from and you are using this product on your horse. Yes - the high heat is supposed to “clean” it but it was the perception by the public that it couldn’t even be truly “clean” would still be there.

It was going to be a huge investment on our part to get involved with this product and we felt there were too many obstacles to overcome to pursue it further and I really don’t know how widely accepted it would ever be in the marketplace

[Manni01]

I boarded my horses some years ago with somebody who was doing this.
He used the bedding as bedding and that he cleaned it (I have no idea how and if it was the same system, but somehow he did it…)
Then he used that product for footing in his indoors. This was a huge bording barn with two oversized indoors and he was getting tired of spending all this money on footing. So this was his idea…

well the result was very elastic for riding, but it did smell like bedding… So most people were not too excited about it.
We left soon after, so I don’t know how it ended

[Scribbler]

Yes, that’s the company TrueColours mentions. We are in their part of the world. I expect that they’ve now added the essential oils to cover the peaty smell.

I think that they are only now ready to really make a big move into the market. I’m not sure how big an overall market there would be, since around here at least wood product bedding (shavings and pellets) and paddock or arena footing (hogfuel) are plentiful and rather cheap by-products of the logging industry. However, we’re looking just to be a customer, not to be an investor, and part of the attraction is to be doing something exemplary and environmentally interesting.

I’m not sure how absorbent the bedding will be. We are going to try a test run on the bedding with some of our members over the next month. If we bought into the whole package, individual stall holders could use either regular softwood chips, or the Greenscene recycled bedding, but could no longer use pelleted bedding as the company can’t re-process pellet dust.

We are a nonprofit club that runs a large suburban self-board facility, so we’d want to make sure this was a good product before we recommended it to the members.

[buck22]

Interesting idea. Please keep us posted if you don’t mind?

I’m currently using peat as bedding and loving just about everything aside from the dust.

If found this concept of using compost as bedding very interesting too: http://www.betterground.org/gallery/sare-video/

[Cat_Tap]

I can’t see how it can be cost effective. There is too much labor involved. Collecting, cleaning, bagging etc. would make it more expensive than just collecting shavings and sawdust from a mill.

[TrueColours]

Cat Tap - I know when we looked at the actual “Business Model” it made sense

Disposal of used bedding is a huge issue in some areas. More and more the available land to take it to and dump it on is decreasing. Many farms have too little acreage to spread used bedding on it and if you are talking wood based bedding, you cant spread it new and fresh on the land as it depletes the nitrogen so you then need to add fertilizer and products to your soil to counteract that. And/or you need to have a huge manure pile to allow it to decompose so you can then safely spread it

So in many cases you then need to pay to get it hauled away and pay to have it dumped somewhere

We looked at providing the containers and/or the service to come and take used bedding away for XXX per ton. So we would get paid to come and pick up your used bedding

We also looked at grants available from the local and Federal governments as we are now in the business of recycling and providing a much needed service to the environment and the community - processing and reusing a product that was formerly just “dumped” somewhere

It was cost effective, there was/is money to be made, it was just a lot of money going out upfront, getting the right facility to store and process everything, getting the grants in place, buying the containers, the roll on / roll off chassis’ to transport them, the machinery to load them if that service was being provided to the client, the staffing, etc, etc. That would have all been doable IF we could actually have seen it fully operating when we went out there. Seen an actual working plant in operation instead of a mock up prototype that sort of worked but was down at the time we arrived and they were waiting for some parts before it could be working once again. So - we flew across the country to see a machine that wasn’t working, some finished product that had come out the back end a day or 2 or 3 before, and a whack of used bedding in a huge heap at the front end waiting to be processed. Saw some of the bedding in the stalls and that was it. And we were supposed to make a decision based on this and we simply weren’t prepared to do so

I will be waiting to see what acceptance it has in the marketplace as well. I think the biggest variables to be faced are a possible lack of availability of suitable bedding in that geographical area and a buyer’s environmental awareness. If this product is going to retail at the same price point as a bag of nice new bright fluffy pine shavings and the pine shavings are readily available - its going to be a tough sell. If bedding is in short supply in that area and/or pine shavings are double the price - they may have a chance. If the buyer is a staunch environmentalist and/or there are incentives to buy “used” as opposed to “new” - then again it stands a chance of success but for no other reasons than I can think of

One thought we had was that is ABC Farm had used bedding that we picked up from them, instead of charging them $200.00 a load to pick it up every month from them we would issue them a credit of XXX towards buying our recycled bedding so we had a steady flow of raw material coming in and a steady customer buying the product from us

Glad this subject came up - it was a project that we took a lot of interest in a few short years ago …

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

Most of the “good” wood shavings are shipped to europe and china for use fueling furnaces. So now most leftover shavings are mostly sawdust here. Ditto wood pellets.

Some sawmills will let you go get your own “shavings” free, so you can check those places. Some sawmills take the pallets and chip them and recycle. Easy to see on those pallets which have painted blue on sides of them.

And a lot of sawmills pay to have sawdust and shavings moved, and then the companies who are paid to remove the leftovers from sawmills will resell bulk shavings/sawdust to customers. You can try to find free or bulk shavings/sawdust.

The only thing you want to be very sure of is to make sure that some hardwoods which are poisonous to horses are not in anything that you buy. You “want” just pine shavings. (Some horses are allergic to cedar shavings. BTDT.)

Recycled wood is not as good as the fresh cut out of the piney-woods wood, IMO. Pay for the “kiln dried” bag shavings and you know what you are getting. Buy in bulk and you are pretty safe. buy recycled and you sometimes have to worry about debris in with the results.

[goodhors]

@TrueColours;8212468

Many farms have too little acreage to spread used bedding on it and if you are talking wood based bedding, you cant spread it new and fresh on the land as it depletes the nitrogen so you then need to add fertilizer and products to your soil to counteract that.

For me, doing regular soil tests and reapplying the needed minerals on a regular basis that make up “fertilizer” is a common occurance. Animals grazing the fields or removing crops from those fields takes the nutrients away. Land always needs “a bit of help” with added nutrients to be very productive in growing a crop or pasture grasses.

I am sorry to tell you that applying a layer of compost now and again or a bit of lime is NOT enough to help the land produce even grass well. The minerals get unbalanced, providing great habitat for many kinds of weed, items that you don’t want to grow.

As for the Nitrogen, sawdust does NOT deplete Nitrogen from the soil, per my local Fertilizer Agent. The Nitrogen may be “tied it up” a bit longer breaking sawdust down, but actually"'never is gone" from that soil. So at times some extra product for Nitrogen is needed to help keep the plants going well, plus lime to free up nitrogen already down in the soil for plants to use more easily.

I get a substitute for Urea, which adds the needed Nitrogen, but is not harmful to the equines grazing those fields. Substitute cost almost the same, so no extra costs when I fertilize. I do try to fertilize yearly, using soil test results to put on just what is needed to grow good pasture. You can fertilize in early Spring or early Fall, works well in both times in my location. I don’t do “Natural type” fertilizer like the free chicken or hog poop on my fields. That stuff does tie fields up longer in breaking down, getting evened out in balance of the field, than I can have on our small acres. Potent to the point of harmful for quite a while, even disced into the dirt.

I do spread the sawdust, shredded wood stall bedding on our fields daily, it really helps our soil get added organic matter down into the clay dirt. As with any organic product, the fields need more bedding to be constantly reapplied, since it breaks down all the time. Does last longer in the soil than straw bedding, which we gave up years ago. Now there is only straw used if we have a new foal planned. All those little organic particles keep the clay soil open, aerated for good drainage, easier root spread by the plants.

And what is wrong with adding commercial fertilizer in recommended amounts to the land? Not overdosing so the extra stuff washes into the water table, but putting on what the land needs is good husbandry in farming. You sure can’t expect fields to constantly supply good grazing, new crops, if you only take things off them and never add anything like fertilizers. Compost is neat, helpful, but seldom high enough in needed balance of minerals the field must have to produce well.

[Scribbler]

All the horses within 100 miles of where we are, are in the suburbs or exurbs of a large metropolitan area. The boarding stables typically do not have much pasture turnout, or any way to use up manure and bedding, and so they pay to have it hauled away. You can get pasture board if you want a vacation for your horse, but that is typically unimproved or fallow farmland, maybe waiting to be developed into condos. So the disposal fees for used bedding are a considerable cost and consideration. Most barns that produce a lot of used bedding would have no on-site use for the amount of compost they could theoretically produce.

[goodhors]

Any chance of contracting with a local garden center or two, who might come take the composted bedding away? You give it to them free for the hauling!

Locally here the folks go out to the city recycle center to get the free compost made from leaves, green trimmings, that the city has available. The city guys make the compost with things hauled in to be dumped, turn the pile with big loaders so it is ready pretty soon to use.

Seems like a garden contractor, garden center, could sell that compost to customers using their services, for more than the cost of hauling it, so you and they are both happy to see the compost go.

[TrueColours]

The days of garden centers taking your used bedding away for free are long gone …

Believe me - we looked into this in great detail and the amount of sheer available land required, not close to any water, a specific distance from any populated areas, not close to any wetlands or protected area, etc is tough to find and most of the used bedding is simply that - used bedding that hasn’t been broken down into compost yet so it would need time to decompose properly

I used to sell an extruded straw pellet product and looked at every possible bedding known to mankind to develop, market and sell and knew the pros and cons and info on all of them

Hands down, the straw pellets broke down the fastest and depleted the least amount of nutrients from the soil, followed by shredded paper and paper pellets / peat moss / hemp / miscanthus pellets and then came wood pellets and sawdust, followed by straw and then followed by wood shavings. The large flake wood shavings could take up to 6 months to decompose completely

There is also nothing wrong with hardwood shavings or sawdust as long as it has no black walnut in it. Esthetically its darker and tends to be dustier and takes longer to decompose

We looked at used pulp byproducts which was fabulously absorbent and was free for the taking but the chemicals used to strip everything away made it unuseable

We looked at shredded used binder twine - fabulously absorbent and completely non dusty and the breakdown was good as well. Corn cobs. Corn husks. You name it

WildandWickedWarmbloods - there was a huge push on several years ago to move away from traditional heating gas and oil and switch to pellet burning technology. That’s where we really felt there would be a huge shortage of wood based bedding products in the future and we put the push on to sell the straw pellets and other bedding mediums. It never happened. SO many factories were set up to pelletize everything to ship it overseas. Incentives were given by governments globally to get homeowners and corporations to switch and they didn’t buy into it. Many farms were converted to miscanthus growing facilities to supply this new industry and they fell flat. So many pellet producing facilities went bankrupt. You had multi millionaires like Frank Stronach buying straw pellet industries in Europe to set up North American production facilities and it just never caught on. We never ran out of wood based products and they still remain the cheapest option out there except for traditional straw

[goodhors]

Thanks TC for that additional information. Quite interesting to read! Maybe it is because I am Midwest, so we are not having quite the issues of other folks in disposal YET.

I heard about the wood pellets being wanted to ship overseas, did not know they had planned an entire pellet industry with other products to fill that need. Maybe the idea of constant stove cleaning, smoke emissions, was part of the downside no one wanted to deal with at home. Sounds like a good idea, too bad lots of money lost.

Locally, FREE still grabs the people’s attention. And if you can load them with the compost to get it gone, it might be an easier way to remove compost from the farm.

[Scribbler]

We do in fact encourage our members to dump more or less “pure” manure in a compost shed, where local residents come and collect it for free (usually before it has composted much). Bedding and trampled up manure/bedding goes in the bins and we pay for removal. This makes a bit of a dent in our removal costs and is a community service, too. Most of the residents are homeowners on city-sized lots; there might be a few small-time pro landscapers in the mix, but no-one really wanting bulk. Although our suburb has lots of parks and greenspace, it is pretty much fully “built out” and even the garden centers would have no room to do serious composting.