Red bag delivery - future issues?

[EquusMagnificus]

My mare foaled yesterday night and it was a red bag delivery.

It didn’t present itself as a full on red bag with the placenta coming out first, but the placenta starting coming out with the filly’s NOSE. I understand that any placenta coming before or with the foal is no good.

We were right there and we got the filly out, or at least the rib cage, quickly and she is totally fine. She was vigorous at birth, sucking reflex was excellent, she got up just fine and found the milk bar within a very reasonnable amount of time. She was already opiniated ;); Little Miss disagreed with drinking bottle colostrum at first. :lol: But thankfully, she agreed it was pretty darn good and drank before getting up.

Now I wonder, is there any increased risk for future deliveries or is just a freak thing?

I am thankful all is well for now. We’ll be enjoying that bottle of sparkling wine tonight! :yes: This is my new tradition, every healthy and live foal deserves a bottle of sparkling wine! I never take the healthy ones for granted anymore…

Oh and did I mention my mare delivered exactly what I ordered? :winkgrin: A tall chestnut filly with no white excepted for a large diamond on her forehead by Wolkentanz II.

[Elfe]

Make sure to check the placenta for any sign of infection. The only red bag delivery I ever had was due to placentitis from aspergillus. It required extensive treatment of the mare’s uterus.
Good luck.

[EquusMagnificus]

Placenta was perfect otherwise. Thanks for the heads up!

[bloomingtonfarm]

To answer your question you would need to know the cause of this red bad delivery.

I had two; one was rhino at 300 days and this even if the mares have been vaccinated against it.

The second, three days before the foaling my mare colic…but when the vet came we were both flabbergasted to see this: her belly looked as if her foal was having a fight with Mohamed Ali. It was unreal, looked like a cartoon; Popeye punching through someone stomach and you could see his fist coming out on the other side! Her belly was bouncing 6 to 8 inches. So scary, never seen that before, neither my vet.

Three days later a filly was born. She must have kicked so much that the placenta detached itself partially. She was not quite ready hence the trouble she had. But after a month you could not see any difference with the others.

Et en passant Félicitations pour toutes tes naissances et particulièrement pour ton beau bébé!!! Le dernier mois a dû être plein d’émotions, je te trouve pas mal bonne!

[coloredcowhorse]

Had two in 30+ years…in both cases we treated the mares for possible uterine infections, left them open that year, culture/cytology with first good cycle the following year and they came back clean…bred and settled and had additional foals without problems.

[ljshorses]

I have had 2 red bag deliveries and I have been breeding for 17years (first TBs then warmbllods and ponies). Both were same mare. First time was after having 5 foals previously without any issues. The placenta came first and I had to cut through to reach baby and then help assist out as quickly as possible. Luckily mare always has small at birth babies (that grow to be HUGE, very weird but all have been Premiums, fantastic mare) and has a very strong push. That colt was perfect, nothing at all wrong with him and placenta looked good. Mare in excellent health and bred her back after short cycling following foal heat.

Second red bag was this year. Same presentation and I cut through again and got baby out. Baby beautiful and healthy but front legs bowed. This placenta did not look as good and it looked like scars on it where I assume were ares that had detached sometime with pregnaqncy. After quite a bit of research it seems these slow over time detachments are to blame for many leg issues due to the way the bone is formed when total attachment is not the case. There are very important vitamins and minerals needed at that time but could be lacking due to the detachment areas. That is one of the reasons Progressive developed the Rejuvenaide. I have to say that her legs first just looked over at knee like many babies have when first born so I wasn’t worried, very minor and those usually starighten on own fairly quickly. But after about a week it was apparent that she was bowed outward at knee. She is on Rejuvenaide and has corrective trimming every 4 days and I’m putting a hoof extension on her today. The one leg is now normal the other has a bit to go yet. Time is of the essence in these cases so we can only wait so long before going to a more drastic measure and put a screw in to retard the growth of the one side so the other side can “catch” up.

The reaason for so much detail above is that it is very important in any red bag delivery to keep a close eye on the foal’s legs and maybe even limiting their turnout for a little while. Mare was again fine, no infection and got right back infoal with frozen. Best wishes to you and watch those legs or better yet I’d put baby on Rejuvenaide as a precaution.

[JenRose]

I am curious as to this as well…

First time breeder here but been in horses for 20+ years. I have an excellent vet and am a research nerd so had read and planned and obsessed over my 2 dear broodies for their 11 months of pregnancy.

Both my girls had foals before coming to live with me and were proven moms. Vet checks throughout gestation were textbook.

First mare foaled at Day 345 on March 22nd. Thank God it was a perfect delivery of a good strong filly who jumped up quicky, nursed and has been thriving ever since.

Second mare foaled at Day 341 on April 19th. Like Equus Magnificus’ mare, it was a red bag. And, the red bag also presented at the filly’s nose. I had been watching her on cam and went out to check in person when I saw her pushing. I saw 2 white feet, properly positioned, but still called vet to come on out. Hung up the phone and saw the red bag. Went in the stall and the filly’s nose was out of it but it was covering the rest of her head. I was able to get her out quickly by keeping traction towards the mare’s hocks and momma doing a good job pushing. Immediately after the final push, momma jumped up. Entire “afterbirth” was out with the filly. Filly was breathing okay but I was suctioning her, evaluating what the hell just happened, etc. Mare started eating the placenta. Vet arrived and I was able to get it out of the stall while she tended to the filly. The placenta was healthy with no infection. The vet felt comfortable that it was in tact before momma started snacking on it. Filly was a dummy foal, organs were failing, patent urachus, septic, etc. After a very hard battle with lots of ups and downs we lost her at 2 weeks of age. I am still heartbroken and also worried about this happening again. This was the mare’s 4 foal and the previous owner said she had absolutely no problems in the past. She is 12 years old. Mare’s follow up repro exam was perfect and she was just bred yesterday.

Both broodies were out together…same feed, hay, care, vaccines, etc. My analytical brain is working overtime to try and come up with an explanation so I can try my damnedest to keep this from happening again. :no:

Congrats and jingles to the OP for your mare and filly!

[Equine_Reproduction]

Biopsy the mare. You may have a poor “connection” with the endometrium due to just good old fashioned wear and tear. Think of the uterus and the placenta as Velcro. We all know how GOOD Velcro is when it’s brand new. But, after all the dog, cat and horse hair plugs it up - not so good. If the separation isn’t due to an easily identifiable cause such as placentitis, I most emphatically would have a uterine biopsy done. Good luck!

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=ljshorses;5647229]

The reaason for so much detail above is that it is very important in any red bag delivery to keep a close eye on the foal’s legs and maybe even limiting their turnout for a little while. Mare was again fine, no infection and got right back infoal with frozen. Best wishes to you and watch those legs or better yet I’d put baby on Rejuvenaide as a precaution.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm… Very good to know. The vet will be coming today and I’ll talk about this.

@JenRose

This was the mare’s 4 foal and the previous owner said she had absolutely no problems in the past. She is 12 years old. Mare’s follow up repro exam was perfect and she was just bred yesterday.

Similar profile to my mare. Mine is 13 this year and this is her 6th foal. My other mare foaled her 7th just 3 weeks ago and it was a picture perfect delivery. Both mares were under identical management during their pregnancies…

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;5647865]
Biopsy the mare. You may have a poor “connection” with the endometrium due to just good old fashioned wear and tear. Think of the uterus and the placenta as Velcro. We all know how GOOD Velcro is when it’s brand new. But, after all the dog, cat and horse hair plugs it up - not so good. If the separation isn’t due to an easily identifiable cause such as placentitis, I most emphatically would have a uterine biopsy done. Good luck![/QUOTE]

Thank you Kathy! I suppose that if she comes back with a poor score, it just means it’s over for her?

If so, I am grateful she gave me two fillies to replace her and I’ll be glad to keep her as a babysitter. :yes: This mare is an angel! A chestnut TB to boot! :winkgrin:

[Signature]

We had a “half” red bag delivery in 2008, mare’s first foal. Placenta came out beside the body of the foal. Our foal had much more apparent problems than yours though - he was dysmature and super lax in all four pasterns (walking on fetlocks behind). He could not get up on his own because of this and could barely nurse, only when held. It became evident after about 12 hours that he was also a dummy foal, and we took him to the university where he did recover after about 10 days of support. He is now a healthy 3 yo and going u/s. Just keep an eye for dummy symptoms, that would be my only concern. But as far as the mare goes, ours has had 3 subsequent perfect deliveries.

[EquusMagnificus]

My filly looks to be 100% fine so far. Vet is coming later today, but she’s active, bright and energetic. She was trying to buck and play with pirouettes in her stall within the first 4 hours!

She got up on her own, no excessive laxity or deviation and is nursing like a champ.

I really can not wait for the vet to get here and confirm that all is well though!

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;5648177]
Thank you Kathy! I suppose that if she comes back with a poor score, it just means it’s over for her?

If so, I am grateful she gave me two fillies to replace her and I’ll be glad to keep her as a babysitter. :yes: This mare is an angel! A chestnut TB to boot! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. But, it would certainly give you some idea of what is going on. And, there is always the option of doing an embryo transfer!

Good luck!