My horse is not spooky in the traditional sense. But every once in a while, he is startled and reacts bigger than I would like. So when a deer suddenly appeared outside the back door of the indoor, he spun and skittered until I could get him back on my aids. The spinning and cutting horse moves are really hard on my back! (And why do they teleport when you are in the up part of posting trot?) Once he stops and realizes what “it” is, he is calm again. “Oops! Sorry, mom guess its just a deer!”
So how would you go about tamping down that initial reaction to being startled? BTW it is usually sudden movement and only happens a few times per year.
Besides the traditional sacking him out…having a friend go by the open door with flags, bags, bells, n of course other horses or a dog n such, idk that there is a good answer?
Some horses are just more naturally bomb-proof than others. I think trying to somewhat ignore the response and continue riding on thru it and not making a big ohh its ok its ok deal about it helps of course and you can only do that to a point if he is not responding to your aids, I totally understand that part as well. But at the same time they are a flight animal and a prey animal so that Primal instinct is never going to completely go away in my opinion. I have a super chill senior at my place but I always tell my daughter talk to him when you are walking up to him to pet him if you scare him and you get hurt it is your fault not his.
Yes we are supposed to train them that they cannot hurt us or freak out over every little thing, but we also have to keep in mind that they are animals and they are going to get startled or jump sometimes just like we do. If you were working in your kitchen with say just the screen door shut so you get air movement n a nice breeze through your house and all of a sudden the door slammed or you saw someone unexpectedly walkthrough it or walk through it or past it, it would startle you too, it is basic response. You can work with him on getting over that basic response faster and coming back down to earth but I don’t think it is fair to expect a horse to completely negate that part of their natural makeup.
Not to mention a deer going by the door is probably not something that they see everyday versus other horses and Riders walking past so something new or completely different or out of the blue will tend to startle them a little more. Sounds like you are already doing a great job with him though!
You are doing well if that only happens a few times a year.
Good that you can keep your seat thru those rare, unexpected teleporting experiences and regain control fast.
As carman_liz said, we really can’t control our environment that well so as to eliminate those unexpected, out of the blue situations.
They just happen. Glad that you can ride thru them.
We had that problem starting colts in our riding center.
We were in a medium sized indoor, the club house was along one long side, second floor.
There was a kitchen and a bit of an eating place and it opened around 9 am.
The floor was wood planks, there were stalls below.
People walking up there sounded like a herd of elephants, never mind when someone opened a window and waved and yelled down into the arena.
We tried to start colt’s first rides very early in the morning, before anyone would be in the club house, because of just that.
Even the best, most bombproof school horses at times were surprised by someone up there, the response mostly a bit of a spook in place.
Have been known a rider getting spooked also at a sudden noise from above, badly enough to fall off, even if the horse just stopped, had not spooked.
She was laughing so hard, her horse looking at her sitting down there like the world just took another crazy human turn, it took her a bit to be able to get up.
Maybe if you could have some walk back and forth regularly while you ride, your horse may learn that is normal, not shy any more at that?
Thanks for the ideas. (Tho I did come off once!) I was more wondering if there is a technique to teach the “spook in place” thing. Normally he is not fazed by much. Deer, people, whatever are all okay if he sees them and processes what they are. You could throw tarps and noisemakers at him and he would just try to eat them. I would just like to teach him to “spook in place” and not try to leave the territory, only to figure out 2 seconds later that all is well! Maybe I need to find some things that will give him a small, rideable fright…
(Its tough when you are old and brittle and he is stronger and more agile from learning collection!)
You might read up on John Lyons training, he tried to develop a “spook in place” reaction on his horses. He thought it was trainable, so horse is not as likely to jump out from under you.
An idea might be hanging things around in windy locations, doorways, so they move, to reduce reaction to sudden movement like deer. I have some sparkly mylar tape hanging down a couple feet in the big doorway for bird repelling. Tape is will spin, flap in the wind, throws sparkles, in the barn doorway as a training aid. Does nothing to repel birds. Ha ha But moving in the breeze it is eye catching for the horses! Very little reaction after a few times viewing it.
Cheap pennant flags (dollar store party section) hung around to blow and flap. Decorative garden flags cracking in the wind along the fence, all good landscape aids in reducing reaction from horses. Driving horses have to face lots of odd things, get surprised and keep spooking to a minimum to stay safe, so we work at this.
Sacking them out can be a game changer to some horses. Mine mostly think it is humorous, stand well as asked. You never hurt them snapping towels on them or other things that could hurt. I don’t do extreme things like many trainers, but our horses are accepting, stand still for things moving on or around them, which is my two goals in sacking out.
Someone said to me “horses are hard wired to react. They need to get out before they stop to work out if it’s a stick or a snake - or a leopard or a deer” That made such sense to me that I am waaaay less worried about spooks and scoots. I think if your horse spooks and then stops and calms down, that is as much as you can ever expect. I’ve ridden horses who don’t spook, and some of them feel tense all the time - because they’ve been taught they must not spook and so they hold on to all their spooks ever until they finally explode.
Spooky Object Training is different from Desensitization and teaches then to stand still when they get a fright.
However that is after the initial reaction.
You want then to react in some situations.
Like when the car crossed the road and headed straight for us and I looked away as I thought it was an idiot trying to scare us. The little quarter horse I was on tore a muscle in his rump jumping out of the way.
The driver looked up saw us and wrenched the steering wheel. The car fishtailed and hit the thoroughbred behind me in the hind leg, who did not react even after my horse had lept.
I learned Spooky Object Training from John Chatterton.
Wait what? People do this type of sacking out? I have never heard this!
I’m all for “go big” on the sacking out, but never intentionally hurting them (guilty of over zealously tossing the lunge whip over the back and accidentally getting a little lash though, I always feel bad when I do it).
Is the concept so you can doctor a wound or whatever? I can see some horses really shutting down over a sack out session that really hurts and doesn’t stop until they quit moving.
Sounds like I mostly have to deal with it. I knew I would never keep him from startling, I was just hoping for a technique to reduce the physical reaction (the teleporting!) I am fortunate that he is not generally spooky or timid. No need for any kind of “sacking out” as he is not afraid once he understand the things and he doesnt look for bogeymen. I may try some planned startles if I can get someone to play along…
when we wanted a proven child safe horse we had the horse shown on Kentucky county fair circuit. After experiencing the amusement rides whirling around next to the arena nothing phases them
Put bags around their yard forever. Go on a 2 hour trail ride. A bag flies out over a wheelie bin and into their face and they will react and leave with you left behind or clinging.
Spooky Object Training, go on a 2 hour trail ride. A bag flies up from behind a wheelie bin and lands into their face. No reaction or a startle then stand still.
I think it is like most things people see trainers doing. If a little bit is good, then LOTS of things flung around HAS to be better! The odder the better.
The benefits of sacking out my way, have proven beneficial to many horses here. I usually start with white towels, soft and eye catching for the horse in appearing and disappearing fast. His job is to STAND STILL as things move around him and touch him all over. He may get surprised, steps over, gets put back. He won’t step over the next time that item surprises him. Loose lead, he stands because he was taught to. No ground tying, not giving him the chance to be naughty getting away. No excitement, even with new, flapping items introduced (as horse gets more accepting) over several days. We do blue tarps, cotton ropes, not lariats that are hard. Bright pattern saddle blankets, harness, saddles on and off from the wrong side. NOT thumped on his back, just set on. Slicker in crackly plastic yellow and dark canvas, both sides. Cookies when session is finished and he stood well.
This is very helpful when he goes to the next step, hobble training. Same goal, stand still as told, accept restraint quietly. Same objects get flapped about and on him, no big deal. He can see everything around him, me, by moving his head ONLY. He may test the soft burlap hobbles by picking up a foot, then the other hobbled foot, but does not get excited. Just testing the limits hobble will allow reaching. Sometimes the hobbles come untied, fall off, so I have to put them back on. Everything is calm, not exciting. We consider hobble training very useful in his education. Horse is willing to accept restraint, waiting for the next training step, not have his brains fall out. He KNOWS we won’t hurt him doing these odd things. We will ALWAYS fix a problem, make it go away.
Wound treatment has always been pretty easy on them. No special training. Have had a couple ugly cuts the last couple years on the young horses, treating was not an issue. Kind of surprised me, they were not in training yet, one weanling, seemed to understand we were helping them. Stood well for washing wounds, treatments needed.
We like smart, accepting horses! Makes enjoying them a lot of fun. There are lots of odd things going on here. Young ones take their cues from older horses, look, but don’t go crazy when things happen. More fun watching the people! Ha ha
OP, I don’t think this is your intention/thought process, but it always amazes me how much we expect our horses - PREY animals by nature - to not be startled by things and if they are startled, not to respond strongly.
Millions of years of evolution has taught the horse that a response is a must if he is to survive. You’re never going to get rid of that. You can “desensitize” all you want, but it will never take the place of a truly startling situation. It sounds like your horse is quite solid for the most part and more importantly he “recalls” to you quickly when he does have a large response. I would be incredibly pleased with that, personally.
You can try having a trusted friend “set up” scenarios where things happen suddenly, but this can become problematic for most people because now you know what’s coming and it’s hard for most to not hint that to the horse. For something that happens “a few times a year”, I’d be inclined not to worry about it, however.
Originally posted by gardenieView Post I Also not clamping on the front end once the spook starts does wonders, so many folks want to close down and stop when horses need movement, better to direct than close down. Leadership is what is most needed in these moments. Focusing on where you want to go instead of what you don’t want happening. (…)[/I]
I agree that managing spooking or startling is about managing where we go, not shutting down all movement. If you need a horse who startles smaller or more rarely, that is okay. Just know that many very good and well trained horses do spook and startle.
OP, I find it helpful to do shoulder-in away from whatever is scary to the horse. I also think of giving the rein on the side where the scary thing is. This way, I’m not clamping down on their face, I’ve given them some room to react, the scary thing acts like an “emotional” outside rein to the horse, and they move in a more controlled way to get away from the scary thing.
