Just because someone blogs publicly doesn’t mean they want to be criticized.
Also I just want to point out there’s a difference between someone criticizing my hobby and someone criticizing my job. I am a lot more comfortable having my professional work criticized by fellow industry experts than I am having my amateur riding critiqued by internet strangers, no matter how well qualified or well-intentioned they may be.
I don’t think the blogger is hypersensitive. I totally get why she would feel like people are kicking her while she is down. I am sure this thread was started with the best of intentions, but friendly reminder: “In a world where you can be anything, choose to be kind.”
Well I didn’t think I was telling anyone how to feel, I was merely saying that it wasn’t my intention. Again, many words and ideas are being placed on me that I simply didn’t say. I also said everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I also apologized more than once that I upset readers. I edited the OP. Not sure what more ya’ll want for me? To agree that I was negative about the rider? I wasn’t, so I am not going to agree with that. That wasn’t my intention and I don’t believe I was. I think some posters have issue with me, so I believe my posts are scrutinized harder. That is just my personal opinion.
And just how I can’t tell others how to feel about something, others can not declare my post was something more nefarious than it was simply because they don’t like me.
I wasn’t trying to change the outcome of the score, or have it reviewed by GJ or anything. I was simply asking a question, when does it become a horse fall when a horse ends up on a jump after a refusal? I used a concrete example with video which I know we all love. I in no way say anything bad or critical of the rider, as I have said multiple times, I admire this rider, in no way was I trying to start a debate on her abilities. It’s on other posters if they have done this.
One thing i have learned in my time on the internet, once its up its up forever and people will be outright mean because of anonymity. They are also incredibly insightful for the same reason.
I think @Jealoushe question and linking of blog was reasonable. I watched a good chunk of the video and agreed with Bad Eventer’s decisions on the course. I think she did right by her horse. I would also have similar thoughts after a run like that. There is nothing wrong with that questioning. That is what makes her a good horsewoman. From the same event Elisa Wallace posted her 2 runs and both horses had issues, both horses didn’t have a perfect runs. It was great watching her cool down and her intimidate thoughts after each run. Heck, after Sharpie’s run she was visibly disappointed in herself but not upset with her horse.
I think for one jump a misread like BE had is completely reasonable and can be expected for some horses. A bad jump like that will sharpen both horse and rider and as long as they stay positive it will be ok, If the ride starts to spiral negative that is when a retirement is needed. When I have issue is when the horse is clearly overfaced or slightly outside of their scope. There is nothing wrong with not understanding the question and representing like Sharpie and Elisa W. We see things on course that our horses (or riders) may not have seen before.
It’s ONLY a horse fall if what part of the horse hit the fence would have hit the ground without the fence. So just a stop with front legs all over the fence is not necessarily a “fall”. Now if they stop, horse lays his shoulder over the fence and hip on the ground but then manages to get feet under him (and rider stays on)…it would be a fall because if the jump wasn’t there…the shoulder would have been on the ground.
Now as to whether a rider should continue with a stop…that is a whole other question. It totally depends on the horse. I could see a bad distance to a stop, horse puts legs over the fence but then jumps it well on representation…and continues on jumping fine…then that may be fine. I had a horse who had an issue at a fence with a pro rider (at 4* level but green to level). He missread it…and triggered the pin but “cleared” the fence. Rider continued on but felt the horse was over jumping and had lost confidence because of the earlier fence and decided to pull up after a couple of fences rather than risk the horse losing more confidence…he was green to the level and it was the right call for that horse. We took him home, took him schooling and rebuilt his confidence. I don’t think there is a black and white answer…riders have to feel what is going on under them and make a decision best for their horse. Sometimes it is more educational to continue going…other times it may be better to stop…and often it will be a bit gray!!!
eta: 2* is still an introductory level. This isn’t really UL yet. And dropping down a level isn’t always the fix as you may not have any issues at the next level down. Sometimes you have to work through issues at this level. This is coming from personal experience (trust me it sucks) AND advice from top trainers. Just something else to think about.
I wasn’t actually referring to your OP, I was referring to the parts I quoted above my response – DC said that she was ashamed to be a member of COTH today, and you told her she was “incorrect”. It’s just not possible for her to be incorrect about that, as much as you may feel differently than she does.
I was hoping you might choose to listen to how others indicated your posts made them feel, and consider that in future posts. However, you are absolutely under no obligation to do so.
There are many instances in my COTH history where I have agreed with you and quoted you as such. I try very hard to separate individual posts from the individual – I believe that allows the most productive discussions. There are people on this earth I take "issue” with, but none of them live in my internet browser.
In Jealoushe’s response to DC she said that DC was incorrect about Jealoushe’s intentions with the original post. She did not state that DC was incorrect about her own feelings. She did then say that DC was incorrect in a second post, but I read that as a reiteration of the original comment about being incorrect about the intentions. I think it is a stretch to claim that she was saying that DC was incorrect about DC’s own feelings.
You gave me a good laugh with ‘fellow industry experts’.
Much of my writing work has been of the type that reaches a mass audience. Critiques and feedback (I use the term loosely) come from everywhere, including prisons and other institutions.
No. It would not be considered a fall, either under USEF rules or FEI rules.
USEF: EV142.4.b. A horse is considered to have fallen when at the same time both its shoulder and quarters have touched either the ground or the obstacle and the ground.
FEI: Eventing Rules 549.5.2. A Horse is considered to have fallen when, at the same time, both its shoulder & quarters have touched either the ground or the obstacle and the ground or when it is trapped in a fence in such a way that it is unable to proceed without assistance or is liable to injure itself.
Both of these rules require involvement of the shoulder and the quarter in touching the ground and/or obstacle. The description of the video from the quote only involves front legs on the obstacle, no shoulder or quarter on either the obstacle or the ground. Not a fall as defined by USEF or FEI.
I am not a writer, and in my line of work when I am being critiqued, it does come from fellow industry experts.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹I cannot speak to your job or your experiences, I was simply offering my own perspective. I’m sure the experience varies greatly depending on industry.
I’m really not sure where my feelings came into play here. It’s not my feelings that matter here. It’s not Jealoushe’s intentions in the OP that matter here. Marigold is correct in saying that “Something that seems to be consistently missed is that unfortunately, you can’t tell someone they don’t feel a certain way just because you didn’t mean for them to feel that way.”
Jealoushe, it doesn’t matter that your intentions in the OP were simply to ask a question. The identifying bits of it were what caused a problem. I misquoted the rider in what she said…she didn’t use the word crucified. She stated, and I quote, "And then I found out tonight I’m being burned in effigy on social media."
Is that an exaggeration? Yes, but her blog is often written in a hyperbolic manner. It’s clear that the rider is hurt by this thread though. Hopefully she was advised not to read any of this and is following that advice.Then she would really have no idea how this thread is going, and by not knowing, maybe it’s worse in her head than the thread has turned out in reality. That doesn’t make it better to me.
Maybe you’re one of those types that wants to say or joke in whatever way you want, even when it is offensive or hurtful to someone else. There’s a lot of that type out there. There’s obviously a few of those types on this board. People like that tend to refer to the people who they have offended or hurt as snowflakes these days…
You have basically ignored everything I have said at this point it feels like you have your opinion of my post and motive and you won’t acknowledge the facts, but just want to keep beating me over the head? Like I don’t even understand how this is still a conversation. I’m not the person you make me out to be.
Im not even sure what your last point is, are you calling me a Trump supporter or something? Firstly I’m Canadian and I sure as hell don’t go around calling people snowflakes or talking down to people like that. Feels like you should take some of your own advice about how to post on here. Not sure who “people like that” are.
Man… I’ve been on COTH a long time… and I’m still surprised at how this thread turned out, on both sides. Agree with everything BFNE has said here, better than I could have too…
Think the blogger’s comment about being “burned at effigy” (if it is in regards to this thread) is a bit of hyperbole, though. Glad she and the horse were okay.
Jealoushe, have you actually reached out to the rider in question and apologized? Since your post did in fact hurt her, even if that wasn’t your intention, the right thing to do would be to apologize to her.
I have been reading what you’re saying. I have been reading what you’re saying on these forums for a long, long time, often in threads that you haven’t started. I know you’re Canadian but that doesn’t mean you don’t share the trait of ‘if they are offended by my posts, that’s their problem, I’m just saying it like it is’ that many people seem to feel these days. And I don’t believe you care because you repeat the pattern over and over and over. It’s boiling over today for me, and I have no problem calling you out for it.
And Canadians are the culture of Sorry. Even out-of-service muni buses say ‘Sorry’ on the front.
If the blogger’s fingers aren’t too burnt from the effigy and actually wants an apology, she can ask for one herself. I don’t know why an intermediary would be required here.
Dude seriously, you need to let it go. My posts on CoTH asking the hard questions no one wants to ask in the past have nothing to do with me being a bad person, not here not in real life, being mean or insulting and I am farthest from a GD Trump supporter.
I give the shirt off my back for my friends and family, have literally housed homeless people and convicts for free for years in my house because I could and care about people. The fact you think I’m a bad person and compare me to some crude deplorable because I linked the riders blog in my OP is the biggest stretch I have seen since stretch Armstrong came out. I may stand by my posts but I also don’t see how my post should cause so much drama! I have told you over and over I MEANT NOTHING NEGATIVE WHATSOEVER TO THE RIDER. Why can’t you accept that?
Im not really sure what you are “calling me out for”. I have actually never been so confused over a thread in all the years on CoTH. Are you sure your hate for me isn’t the one boiling over?
You want me to apologize to someone, who you asked me not to bring into this post, who I removed all the info about, who I have said nothing bad about??? What the actual F. Are you close with this rider? How in gods name would she even know or care to hear from me?
Your posts have hurt me, I’m not asking for an apology.
for the education…no…a stop like on that video is NOT automatically 11 points. If the table was frangible, it would NOT have triggered the pin just having a sliding stop and putting front feet on top of the fence. Frangible pins are actually hard to trigger and usually require the horse going over the jump and almost falling. I’ve never heard of one being triggered on a table that didn’t result from an actual horse fall. Typically, the horse actually DOES fall but because of the frangible nature of the jump, they do not ROTATE. The fences triggered where the horses stay on their feet are almost always hanging log types of jumps (or open oxers or corners) where the horse really comes down on the pinned log…there they often can stay on their feet and continue.
I watched the video…personally, I would have also continued on after the stop. She was certainly handling some of the more technical things quite well. Nice mare, just a bit green…bet they will be quite competitive next year.
FWIW I wasn’t questioning the riders decision, just the situation in general.
My horse hit a frangible pin his summer, she stopped coming into the coffin while we were almost over the jump, got her leg caught on the rail and MIMs activated. She hardly hit it really, I fell off so it didn’t effect my score but curious how things will all play out now that almost everything is frangible.
