Seeking clarification/confirmation on how ref
usals in a Hunter division are calculated. Elimination occurs after three refusals. I am assuming that means cumulatively, not at each jump, correct? In other words, you are eliminated if you stop once at the first jump, and then twice at the second jump, correct? You would NOT need to stop three times at the SAME jump in order to be eliminated, correct?
1 Like
You are correct.
It is cumulative.
Also, if you halt or circle between jumps, that also counts as a refusal.
4 Likes
Thank you. I was recently at a show where this happened to a rider - stopped once at jump one and then twice at jump two. When the “thank you” (meaning the rider is excused) was called over the loudspeaker, the trainer at the gate was up in arms, yelled over to the judge that she only stopped twice, to which the judge reminded the trainer that the rider also stopped at the first jump. I have always thought it to be a cumulative count, and obviously the judge thought so too, but I was confused how someone (let alone a trainer) might interpret it differently and was curious if others interpreted it differently as well!
4 Likes
There are lots of trainers out there who are trainers in name but not in knowledge or experience…
31 Likes
From a show manager’s perspective, and keeping the rings running kind of on time, the rule makes a lot of sense.
After the first stop, the pair is not going to be pinned, no matter what. Allowing the pair to continue after the first stop is a courtesy and a schooling opportunity.
7 Likes
Unfortunately, I have had the displeasure of watching a class so bad that a horse with a stop was pinned. There were boogeymen in the bleachers that day. Best of the worst type thing.
Once upon a time in a galaxy not so far away in the cross country phase of eventing, it was three refusals per fence. That was also when you could get back on after a fall and keep going.
I used this once. Horse stopped twice at first fence then once at five of the next six fences. At that point he must have decided that the fastest way to get out of the rain was to jump everything the first time. Eventually I gave up and turned him into a dressage horse.
4 Likes
Yes, you could have 2 refusals at every jump on cross country without beig eliminated. You could aso fall off, remount. and contine without being eliminated
3 Likes
Remember the “penalty zone?” If you fell off inside the penalty zone, usually three strides before of after the fence, it counted. If you fell off outside the penalty zone, it didn’t. Which lead to some riders hanging around their horse’s neck until they were outside the penalty zone and then dropping to the ground.
I was at a hunter show back in the late 1960s where the judge started a class’s placings at second as she said they were all poor and none deserved a first place
1 Like
I have to say I found some of those videos hard to watch when the rider was hanging on in such a way that they were hauling on the horse’s mouth as they were trying to climb back into the saddle.
2 Likes
Was it possible that the trainer didn’t see the first stop, or did they continue to argue after being reminded of it?
No, the trainer definitely saw the stop at jump one as well. Trainer did not continue any verbal comment (at least loudly enough to be heard a few feet away), but it was pretty clear from her body language that she did not agree that the rider should have been excused.
Yikes. That’s a pretty well known and simple rule. Hopefully the “trainer” isn’t being paid by their “student”.
1 Like
Was a recognized USEF show? Or a show that states it follows USEF rules?
If so, the rules are quite clear that the entry is eliminated after three refusals in hunter and (most) equitation classes, and two refusals in (most) jumper classes, other than the jumper classes that are restricted to young horses.
It’s also very clearly stated in the USEF rules that the entry is not allowed to continue in the class after being eliminated.
2 Likes
I was in one of those classes. We were schooling and did some simple changes, so I didn’t bother looking at the results. I finally checked when a friend told me she pinned with a stop. I got my best ribbon of the season. Rough day for the judges!
