Registered sex offender at shows,ETA now in Florida

Found more info on the saga of the person I knew arrested locally, extradited to another state … I was looking in the wrong place …

Arrested August 2021 in TX, extradited to the other state, at first held without bail. Took about 6 weeks to get $10k bail and did use a bail bondsman, so maybe finances were not as abundant as people here had believed.

Defense attorney pushed/delayed court actions until Feb. 2024 (2 1/2 years). I don’t know the procedure, but the DA then went to the Grand Jury and got an indictment. Case transferred to District Court.

Charge is classed as Felony/Gross Misdemeanor. 27 felony items listed for sexual assault of, or lewdness with, a child/children under the age of 14. These are the old ones from 1999.

Apparently 2 children were involved, one age 11, one younger.

April 2024 there was a District Court hearing, defendant pleaded Not Guilty, and a trial date was set of March 2025.

I wonder if all of the good works he’s been doing in the meantime will make a difference to his case, or to his sentencing. It’s as if he not only gaslights everyone, also he’s always building a facade of wonderfulness that he might be able to use as mitigation of future consequences.

Is it a genuine feel for service to humanity, despite his pedophilia? I don’t know. Are good works and service something pedophiles use to deflect suspicion, to create reluctance to believe bad of them?

I can’t find anything on what he’s been doing in the meantime. One assumes he has a job, he may have started a business as he has done in the past. Or he’s living off his rental properties.

I wonder if he’s allowed to live anywhere but in that jurisdiction.

From some other random personal data he may be using an altered version of his real name. That’s legal if it’s filed properly. People won’t know unless he tells them, or else they look up either name in the court records. As noted previously in this thread, most people don’t do that.

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Predators groom their character witnesses as carefully as they groom their victims.

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I don’t think that most pedophiles act out of a desire to harm children. I’m not a psychologist, but I think it’s more complex, something more along the lines of them being unaware / willfully unaware of the harm they are causing.

My DH and I had a childhood friend that who became a well liked and respected sports coach but then eventually was arrested and went to prison for having a sexual relationship with a teenage student and further evidence indicated a pattern. He was a devoted coach and his love for the sport seemed genuine. However, he completely lacked any glimpse of insight that taking advantage of his position as a coach to have sexual relationships teenagers was both profoundly wrong and profoundly damaging to the kids involved. I still remember him, after he was arrested, trying to explain (in a quite convincing manner, I might add) that it was a “consensual relationship” and that the only reason he got in trouble was jealousy between his students (he was turned in by another student that he was grooming). He did not have any sense of himself as a predator. He did not have any sense of his victims’ immaturity due to their ages or their vulnerability. He never received parole and died in prison a few years ago.

I think that part of the reason he was able to hide in plain sight for so long was that he truly did not think of himself as predator or that what he was doing was wrong. He had a very ordinary, even somewhat unattractive appearance, definitely not a teenage heartthrob. He moved to a new area every 3-5 years, specifically choosing areas with more religious populations and would ingratiate himself to a new community by joining their church and becoming involved with that. His victims were less spectacular performers, not the star athletes. He had a clean background check because it took years for his behavior to come to light.

While at the time everyone (including myself and DH) were shocked, in retrospect, I think stories like this are the norm. Like @OverandOnward said, people want to think they have the ability to judge character. It’s not a great feeling to find out you don’t. Also, people have a lot of weird biases that prevent them from learning that someone they know is a predator, such as confirmation bias (gravitating towards believing what you already know) and experience bias (what we know personally to be true must be the whole truth).

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Oh they know it’s wrong. That’s why the ones who only get caught early on for relatively
minor incidents and not locked up for extended periods then learn to start killing their victims. Leave no witnesses.
They can’t help what they’re doing. It’s like any other sexual attraction. They like what they like. Disgusting yes, but it is what it is. It’s not fixable. They need to be locked up with no key

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What you’re describing here is a classic fixated child predator. They choose to believe what they are doing is consensual regardless of any evidence to the contrary. Think Sandusky, Nassar, Epstein. They are able to hide in plain sight because their victim selection is excellent and they are very careful to calibrate a “normal” appearance or use power to their advantage (Epstein) while people who should know better look away (Nassar, Sandusky)
Nassar sexually abused girls while their parents sat in the room, albeit not in a position to see exactly what he was doing. These predators also put themselves in target rich
environments as in your example here. While they claim to not know better, they absolutely do. One of my favorite examples is the interview Oprah did with Michael Jackson rationalizing sleeping with kids in his bed. Look it up, it’s classic fixated child predator rationale

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Speaking of someone that many people will never accept as a child predator: Michael Jackson.

His music is still to this day front and center with millions of fans. They choose to ignore his clear adult life history.

MJ may be this era’s Bach and Beethoven. One generation after another still includes his music in their high school prom’s playlist. Current music videos emulate his dance style. Reviewers compare present day performances to MJ’s.

I’m probably as guilty as any one, because I treasure much of his music and dance, and yet I know what he really is.

And MJ definitely saw nothing wrong and thought it was all about love. He was absolutely blind to the impact on a young boy of being trapped into sleeping in a bed with a man in his 40’s that he barely knew. Arranged by the boy’s parents, no less. For money. WTF.

So many of today’s fans dismiss it all and blame the victims.

The attempts to educate the public to recognize the signs have reached some people, but not everyone by any means.

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Oh yes—I grew up with his music and still love it but as a person MJ is my favorite example of preferential/fixated pedophile. And he was enabled by the parents of his victims who ignored all logic, propriety and red flags in their children’s relationships with MJ. When you take that into account, it’s not a big leap to see how riding coaches can create inappropriate access to their students through horses.

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Was MJ accused of having sex with the boys, as in rape? (I’m not defending him)

To me, there seems to be a large cross over between this discussion of why and how sexual predators can hide in plain sight and not be recognised or called out by ordinary people and how otherwise rational people can still support Trump, despite his actions and words and criminal convictions. Of course, Trump is a recognised sexual predator so maybe his skill sets overlap.

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There were monetary settlements with some parents. I remember one trial where MJ was found not guilty. There are a couple of recent documentaries that cover more than I can remember at the moment.

Because the greedy mother of one of the victims did a (clearly staged) meltdown on the witness stand that eliminated her credibility, and the credibility of her son, the real victim.

MJ bought his way out of two trials that could have landed him in prison, through monetary settlements with victim’s families. With parents who allowed him to victimized their children in the first place for his money. He bought his way out of a great deal of trouble that most predators could not afford to do.

After the second trial, which if not for the victim’s mother undermining it could well have found him guilty … suddenly Michael Jackson adopts 3 children (not simoultaneously), who may or may not have been fathered by him, and sequestered them in his ranch/compound for the rest of his life. Something to consider, imo.

I’m not into the deepest knowledge on this, but just from what I do know, this is very unclear. I hate to chuck you over to wikipedia and other internet sites including FBI files, but you may have to do your own deep dive.

As best I know, there are some public allegations of rape (even long-term ongoing rape of the same victims), but I don’t think Jackson was every prosecuted for rape. Perhaps the DA thought they didn’t have the evidence and witness testimony needed, so they went with charges they found easier to substantiate (and even that didn’t work in the end).

The police investigation went on for many years. But it was on again, off again. The parameters kept changing. Follow-up was inconsistent.

At the time, the knowledge of how to handle victims, families, interviews, etc., wasn’t good, to put it kindly. It would be easy to see how officers of the day would be fairly well exasperated by the erratic behavior of the families and victims, who had conflicting pressures and motivations. I would say that the Jackson team who handled them were masters of creating an impossible investigation.

The FBI had him under investigation for 12 years. Unfortunately I think that investigation was sporadic and limited. They “didn’t find proof”. But the FBI was constrained by what would violate federal law, and many of the allegations would not be federal.

Unfortunately the credibility of the victims is all over the place. People have to research all they can and decide who they believe, and at what point in time. The victims were young at the time of course, and of course heavily influenced by parents.

The witness tampering by Jackson’s protective team was absolutely epic. But never prosecuted. Without the cooperation of those witnesses, I don’t think there was enough evidence to prosecute for tampering. Plus the DA might have thought it would undermine the credibility of the witnesses even more.

Keep in mind what is known and documented about these parents. Having slipped into the Michael Jackson orbit, after meeting him through ‘public’ events their son was selected to attend, and feeling he was a friend after a very short acquaintance, they accepted money, vacations and other incentives, in return for dropping their son off at his place for a weekend or longer. Other boys also attending. The kid was excited about a ‘party’ time with Michael Jackson, of course.

No one seemed to think of Jackson as a divorced man in his 40’s, which is what he was. Who would even listen to an offer to leave their kid with someone like that?

Instead, people seemed (and seem) to almost universally buy into his artfully created persona of a sort of adrogynous delicate youth, a wizard of artistry and a magician of fun at Neverland Ranch.

It was presented to be like an amazing youth camp, hosted by the world’s most famous pop star. How’s that for bait?

One expert on sexual predators said that Jackson’s “Neverland Ranch” home, with the exotic animals, carnival rides, home full of amusements, and parties and tours for selected middle-class guests, was the greatest victim-bait of all time.

He said predators have ‘things’ that are attractive to the minors they are targeting. Jackson had more wildly attractive ‘things’ than any predator he had ever studied.

And btw, back to our title subject, what is a more fascinating girl-magnet than horses … :frowning:

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2009/december/jackson_122209

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Wow! Your condensed version is the best I have read. I haven’t delved into the story, I didn’t have interest in it then and I don’t still really, but tying it into how horse trainers, etc groom victims is relevant.

Thank you for the explanation and the links. :+1:

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Plus, victims fighting publicly through the media with other victims. Families fighting publicly through the media with their family members. Sides being taken. Stories changing over the years. Payoffs to sundry involved people, to Jackson’s staff, etc. and so on.

Assessing exactly the crimes committed by Michael Jackson could most kindly be described as a hot mess.

And especially coming from the era it did, I doubt things will ever be sorted out, cleanly and clearly. People have to decide for themselves who and what they believe.

But in my mind there is no doubt that he was a predator of young boys. The big picture is very, very clear.

It is very, very unusual for someone of his public stature and wealth to be on trial for something like this. Twice. That did not come out of nothing.

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Well, it could be the “mature white businessman privilege” that someone mentioned earlier.
But that wouldn’t include Bill Clinton, because he wasn’t a business man.

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Personally, I cancelled MJ from my life. I have no doubt he was a predator to young children.

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Yesterday Tuesday 6/25 was 15 years after MJ"s death, and some look-backs are being released in the media.

I thought this one summed up much of the contradictions in the way people view Michael Jackson and his career – and honestly, many sex offenders.

Sex offenders can have life accomplishments unrelated to their offenses – and that can make it hard for those impacted positively by those accomplishments to be objective about who this person is, really.

Another way to look at it, a prominent innovator in a particular field, a generous community-oriented person that people look up to, can also be a sex offender. We probably don’t even know how many notable people have terrible secrets to hide.

MJ was one of the first black performers to be played on mainstream radio, to appear on MTV (as it was getting started), to bring his style of music and dance to Broadway in The Wiz. He redefined pop music and dance with Off The Wall (album) and Thriller. He may not have invented the Moonwalk dance step, but he debuted it to the world, superbly. At the time, few dancers could do it well.

Helped by his influence, much of the old pop-music power structure that restricted innovation was broken up. New eras of music and performance just exploded during the 80’s.

And that was just his early years.

The other thing that accompanied his many storied career first’s and doors he opened, was that from the way he presented himself to the public: He was just weird. I wonder if the weirdness was partly to distract from other things in his life that he wanted to hide.

image

A photo of two of the most different people on earth, imo. The icon of unconventional, and the icon of conventional.

IMO Michael Jackson spent years, a significant portion of his adult life, attempting to acquire as much control as he could exert over children, especially boys, in his preferred age range. Eventually, even growing his own children as a safer, more private and custodial route to control. IMO!

IMO, this pattern of developing child-magnet attractions to be a part of his life, then getting as many kids as he can in his orbit, is a pattern observed in a lot of child sex offenders, including the one in the thread title. MJ’s scale of attractions may be extraordinary due to his wealth, but the pattern is familiar, if you think about it.

It could be sports, horses, access to music and music production, a particular collectable, clubs and interests … anything that attracts people to gather in an atmosphere conducive to credibility and trust. The common interest, the common amusement, is a powerful people-magnet.

The 2005 trial was the beginning of the end for Michael Jackson, in spite of the not-guilty verdict. From the day the trial was over in 2005, Michael Jackson was in a sort of slow collapse, health-wise, financially, in every way, until his death 4 years later at the age of 50.

Michael Jackson never returned to Neverland Ranch after his 2005 acquittal.

I have a feeling that his legal team made it very, very clear that Neverland was over, if he wanted to stay out of prison. There used to be a crass term for underage sexual partners: ‘jail-bait’. Neverland wasn’t just child-bait for minors, it was prison-bait for Michael Jackson, after the trial.

The horse trainer in the title hasn’t seemed to figure that out about horse showing, horse camp, etc.

After the trial, Michael Jackson stayed out of the U.S., living for some time in Bahrain and then in Europe. His health had always been fragile and was worsening. After years of extravagant spending and legal expenses, as well as settling with complaining victims, he was in financial collapse. His businesses were failing, employees unpaid. Neverland was first closed, then was sold off, after months were spent selling off exotic animals and amusement rides.

In 2009 Jackson returned to the U.S. to prepare for a series of 50 concerts in London, then a world tour, intended as a financial reset. Even though his CA home at the time was near foreclosure. And even though those close to him were doubtful he was healthy enough to do even a few of the shows he was planning, not to mention the tour, tickets already sold out.

But of course, shortly before the performances were to begin, in June of 2009 Jackson died at age 50 of an overdose of drugs that are normally used as surgical anethesia, that he was using to sleep. His 3 children were about 13, 12 and 7 years old.

IMO everything about his life and lifestyle, particularly his involvement with young boys, tore down the career and the empire he built, and led him to this untimely end.

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I am not making excuses for MJ’s behavior but he did have a horrible childhood. I once did an audit with somebody that went to high school with him. He said MJ slept all day in class I guess because his father kept MJ and his brothers up all night practicing. He never had any semblance of a childhood. And his father was abusive but the jury is still out if he was actually sexually abusive. I realize that other persons had terrible childhoods and did not molest young children. I do see MJ as a terribly flawed human being that was victimized by his father and the music industry as a whole his entire life. I think if you were put in the same childhood we might be considered weird.

However I would not be surprised if he molested these children and I am horrified at the parents that pimped out their kids to him. Despite his talent I think his life is a tragedy and he was enabled by a lot of persons that only saw him as a dollar sign. I am not condoning his role in all of this - just trying to understand why he did what he did.

And yes we need to NOT enable these people no matter what they went through. And we do NOT need to make our children available for them. They do not need the temptation and our kids do not need that kind of trauma.

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Tom Navarro’s River Chase Farm was recently flagged on a DC-area parenting message board. Predictably, he had some defenders. (Or maybe it was Tom or Sarah who was posting the threats to sue.)

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1207095.page

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Seems the entire topic has been scrubbed from the site.