Relaxing the horse who wants to "race"

I took my new mare out cubbing yesterday evening and overall, she did great. Solpresa is an 8 y/o unraced TB, who was a jumper and then a polo pony for a brief time. She took everything in stride - uneven terrain, trappy crossings, water, the hounds, the huntsman’s horn - and stood at the checks.

The only issue we had was, not surprisingly, that she seemed to want to “race” the other horses in our group. I’ve never had a TB but I know that competition is in their blood, so to speak. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t take race training to make a TB want to compete and win. I know there are plenty of lazier or less competitive TBs. A very good friend I hunt with has one who seems to think walking and breathing simultaneously is exhausting.

How can I help her relax? I talked to her and didn’t seize up on the reins, using a series of half halts instead. She got a little pogo-legged and threw her head up a few times, but ultimately did listen. I’d appreciate any ideas focused on helping her relax, round up and canter/gallop a little less “out” and a little more “in hand” :wink:

She’s bitted in a D-ring french link snaffle. She was also wearing a standing martingale that I think was actually a bit long, but I was being extra cautious with the adjustment.

Ideas? I’m sure it will improve with time and experience, but I want to make sure that I am acting/reacting appropriately so as not to cause her further anxiety. Thanks!

I have a Morgan who prefers to be in front. Not racing blood! Just alpha mare syndrome: “Excuse me, it’s my job to lead this herd! Get out of my way!” Had issues with her sniping at other horses, too (at horses she knew, never at strangers). She was a nightmare in groups (even with just one other horse) at first. She’s done her best ever this year, including staying contentedly in last place on the team without any discussion during a recent hunter pace. First time she’s really been 100% solid on that issue.

I’ve used the tactic of preparing in advance - trying to avoid getting to a situation where she’s started running without my say so. So if I see a big field coming, or the group I’m with announces they are going to speed up, or there’s one of those steep hills that gets speed going, etc etc I make sure she’s listening, soft, and responsive before we even start to trot or canter. Then I can maintain it easily during the speed part, and she’ll “stay with me”. Like you said, too, half-halts only, with releases, not ever the death-grip-on-the-reins. We also did a lot of practice with one or two other riders where we cantered past each other and cantered back and forth in different orders in a set area until the horses got bored with it. That helped a ton, and helped my confidence a lot too.

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;4381638]
I took my new mare out cubbing yesterday evening and overall, she did great. Solpresa is an 8 y/o unraced TB, who was a jumper and then a polo pony for a brief time. She took everything in stride - uneven terrain, trappy crossings, water, the hounds, the huntsman’s horn - and stood at the checks.

The only issue we had was, not surprisingly, that she seemed to want to “race” the other horses in our group. I’ve never had a TB but I know that competition is in their blood, so to speak. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t take race training to make a TB want to compete and win. I know there are plenty of lazier or less competitive TBs. A very good friend I hunt with has one who seems to think walking and breathing simultaneously is exhausting.

How can I help her relax? I talked to her and didn’t seize up on the reins, using a series of half halts instead. She got a little pogo-legged and threw her head up a few times, but ultimately did listen. I’d appreciate any ideas focused on helping her relax, round up and canter/gallop a little less “out” and a little more “in hand” :wink:

She’s bitted in a D-ring french link snaffle. She was also wearing a standing martingale that I think was actually a bit long, but I was being extra cautious with the adjustment.

Ideas? I’m sure it will improve with time and experience, but I want to make sure that I am acting/reacting appropriately so as not to cause her further anxiety. Thanks![/QUOTE]

try a kimblewick bit it dtronger than a saffle but not as strong as pelham
and look at helpdul links pages in the sticky on the dressage section and also red thomas 1 mouthing and bitting also on dressage pages
but is a live topic on horse care forum

Not a “bitting” thread…a behavior thread

GLS, I don’t want to bit her up - I want to help her relax. In my experience with bitting some extremely difficult horses, increasing the severity of the bit does not have a relaxing effect…in fact, it’s usually quite the opposite. I want to help her acclimate to her new “job” and hope that she enjoys it, not force her down into a frame and stress her out with a more severe bit. She’s not ignoring her bit, just responding slower when she’s in “race” mode.

I have to disagree with your statement that a kimberwicke is not as strong as a pelham. A kimberwicke does not allow the rider to cue the horse solely from the snaffle/direct contact. Unless used with two reins, which I think I have seen exactly once in 25 years of riding :wink: Even then…the top rein slot still makes a properly adjusted curb chain contact the horse. A pelham does allow the rider to cue with both direct and leverage contact - provided it’s not used with a converter…shudder…which really defeats the purpose, IMO.

I don’t “bit up” my horse because he just curls behind a stronger bit.

I hunt in a loose ring snaffle but add a running martingale (rather than a standing). I find that gives me a bit more control.

However, before hunting him I had to teach him that he didn’t have to be first. My hunt horse was a successful racehorse and when I first got him, he just didn’t get this concept. He would have a hissy fit and practically throw himself on the ground in frustration :eek:. I honestly thought I’d never get him out into the hunt field.

Here’s what worked for me. Obviously all horses are different.

  • Lots and lots of trail rides with other horses where we switched off places. He'd get to go first, then he'd move back and stay behind until he couldn't take it any more. I would gradually increase the amount of time when he wasn't in front.
  • A change in feed. He eats a very low starch diet with quite a bit of fat. It's had a calming effect. I know some people who don't feed grain the morning of the hunt. That can help too.
  • The first half dozen hunts we hill topped and I mostly kept him at a trot. He listens much better at a trot.
  • Carefully picking the territories to avoid hunts that have big open galloping fields. Usually on these hunts we have a few people whose horses become a bit, well, exuberant. I don't need him to feed off that type of energy. Instead, I chose hunts where much of the hunt goes through wooded trails where the field must stay in single file.
  • Making sure that each hunt was a positive experience for him. That meant occasionally at the beginning, leaving after the first check.
At this point my horse did half a dozen hunts last fall and all of the spring season. At the end of the spring season I moved him up to the first flight and then let him jump a few of the smaller fences. I don't want to add too much at any one time, but rather increase the challenges incrementally. I'm still picking the hunts carefully. I'm passing on the opening hunt this Saturday because it's all big galloping fields and he's feeling so good with the cooler weather that I don't think it's a good combination.

Good luck and be patient. I’m hoping to hunt my boy for many seasons so if we need to be conservative now, it will be worth it if it helps him turn into a reliable hunt horse.

Welcome to the world of TB’s! Sounds to me like your mare is a typical hot TB…give her some more time in the field and see if she “relaxes” a bit this fall. Also, any tension or stress that you might have been dealing with riding her in the field for the first time could have easily been picked up on by her. She very well could have been reacting to your anxiety which would “bring her strings up” so to speak. Get out with her as much as possible this fall so that you can both get very comfortable in the field together. If she is acting squirrely later on in the season then I think it would be time to work on the tack.

Thank you for the input. I was careful not to overface her - we stayed in the gate group and I only asked her to jump two small CC fences, and one small coop. We jumped 3’ at home the day prior, so I know she’s capable :wink:

I’m sure I was a little nervous. This was about my 4th time on her back. I tried to concentrate on not “thinking” nervous and staying relaxed and soft in my hands and seat. I think I’ll keep her in the back for a while and ask the other folks in the group if they wouldn’t mind playing a little leapfrog leader with us for practice! I will definitely take every opportunity to trail ride with groups.

I don’t believe her diet is an issue - she’s not eating anything that should make her hot. I feed Cadence, which is a low starch texturized feed, 10% protein and 10% fat. Also good quality grass hay, with very little alfalfa.

Often the biggest challenge comes after you’ve hunted once or twice and your horse starts to anticipate hunting and gets excited.

Very brave of you to ride up front if you’ve only sat on the horse four times!!

This is a training problem, IMO. It also won’t be solved quickly, if you want the “we’re not here to race” message to really stick.

The competitive distance riders have a good technique, in part because their very fit horses who usually work alone must relax in order to do well. Check out one solution I was taught: Go out with another horse, and let him trot out ahead of you while you mare loses her mind. You keep her more or less under control until she begins to settle. He may need to get out of sight. You cruise for a bit, and then move up to pass your partner. You keep her marching along as she passes him while that horse drops back and works on the same thing; she doesn’t get to slow down once in front. It takes time, but sooner or later, both horses learn that the other horses on the trail are not their business.

The dressage peeps might do something different, but it won’t work in a formal hunt: You make sure your mare is broke by herself. Then, when she forgets her manners in company, you pull over for a dressage school until she remembers is so busy listening to you that she doesn’t have enough brain cells left over to think about the rest of the herd. She needs to know that the rules about listening to her rider hold in all times and all places. Eventually, she will relax in company precisely because cruising along politely with other horses turns out to me much less physical and mental work than the dressage-school-from-hell you deliver when she blows you off.

Finally, there’s the traditional hunting way of handling this: The crazy babies hilltop or stay at the back of the field for as long as it takes for them to give up.

I rode “the bad ones” in the field while I was in college, and I liked a combination of hill topping or cubbing where things weren’t so formal and the dressage-technique.

Great Advice. I don’t pretend to be the authority on hunting as last season was my first season but I did hunt three different Ottb’s all in their first season of hunting. Trail ride…trail rides and more trail rides is so helpful. You can play leap frog practicing being in the front and back and going different speeds. Test out your brakes and teach them that open fields don’t mean run by using transitions, lateral work and more.

I work all of my ottb’s out in open fields and on the trails when they arrive so it just becomes an everyday thing for them. You would be suprised some have an issue being in back while other’s do not. My hottest horses that are most competitive about being in front are mixed breeds and have not raced!

Keep the bitting simple (which you are doing) so you don’t piss them off. Use transitions and buddy up. I was told find a horse that is really reliable and use that horse to ride beside and behind. Know which horses to stay away from (also important;)). Talk to other members to let them know your horse is green they will help you out and more than likely understand if your horse is having a green moment and give you some room.

I started all of mine in second field a time or two until I knew how they would be have. All of my horses event already so they can jump and have been ridden in the open but second field gave me an opportunity to see how they would react to a really big group and we never went beyond a controlled canter. 1st field is much more high energy and can be stressful for the most experienced hunt horse so my recommendation would be to not attempt it until you know you have brakes, steering, braveness to fences and the horse will not get stressed. Like Bogie said you want the horse to enjoy the hunt and come back the next time more educated but not spazzed out. The stop/go of 1st flight can be very stressful to some horses in their first few seasons. I had three that seemed to take it all in stride but I think that is because they had so much mileage eventing, trail riding and doing other things that they didn’t get worked up.

As a rider it is really important to remember to breathe! Also, teach the horse to balance itself so you aren’t holding it up. Half halts and then soften and let them carry themselves. If they are nervous then walk them and get them to circle to relax. I asked a lot of questions about what was acceptable because mine found the checks to be stressful. They were fine when we were moving but the 1st hour it was tough to get them to stand still. Nobody seemed to care that I would walk them in circles. Fighting them to stand still often makes it much worse.

Pick the places where you go. Riding in big open fields is really hard! You should see some of the antics even from the most seasoned horses on a cold morning while going across these open fields. On some horses it might be better to hilltop or go second flight at first so they can just go slow. Then again riding single file can be tough to depending on how nervous the horse is. If they feel trapped in it can make it worse. That is something you just figure out with time. One of mine thought that leaving out a whole stride at the coops was quite funny and it is hard to deal with that when following behind a group and knowing you have others on your tail.

Another thing that I do at home before/during hunt season is go out in the open fields and practice transitions, half halts and really galloping. Test out my brakes and see what I need to work on. I may really open up into a fast gallop and then see if I can transition down easily. This is the best prep you can do to get a horse used to it so the first time is not in the hunt field! I even practice full gallop to a halt and those sharp transitions as they happen often in our hunting territory and the horse needs to learn to be that sharp to the aids of the rider. I find being prepared takes away a lot of the anxiety because you already have the tools you need when you get out into the hunt field

On the bitting note, practice at home. If you can’t pull your horse up while galloping across a field at home in a snaffle than you are dangerous in the hunt field. That is just my opinion but underbitting makes riding scary so don’t be “stuck” that you have to go in a snaffle. I have horses that did hunt in a happy mouth while others hunted in a pelham or three ring or whatever else. I can often ride much softer in a bit bigger bit than when a horse is pulling my arms off in a snaffle. Not saying I advocate big bits just know your horse and be realistic.

To clarify a few things that may have been missed and/or misunderstood - she didn’t bolt, wasn’t uncontrollable, and I did stay back with the gate group. She got antsy, a little bouncy, threw her head up a few times, but was far from dangerous or unresponsive. She also did stand at the checks, quite relaxed.

Re: bitting, I don’t have a problem with stronger bits, I just don’t think a stronger bit is the first thing I should try. My older mare was shown in a segunda port kimberwicke her last two seasons, and then hunted in that last season. My show horse is shown as a funter in a full bridle - then my 4 y/o has the fattest french linksnaffle in existence and still curls behind it! I have a lot of bits :slight_smile: and I’m willing to experiment, but her attitude is telling me this is an excitement thing I can help her relax about, rather than a bitting issue.

I do appreciate the comments about tack/bitting, but I’m really looking for relaxation/refocusing ideas at this early stage. I mentioned what bit she was wearing in my OP because I figured someone was bound to ask - my apologies if that redirected what my intention was. Knowing what I know about her so far, she’s really very agreeable and kind, and I think she will work through this without stronger “hardware”.

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;4382776]
Thank you for the input. I was careful not to overface her - we stayed in the gate group and I only asked her to jump two small CC fences, and one small coop. We jumped 3’ at home the day prior, so I know she’s capable :wink:

I’m sure I was a little nervous. This was about my 4th time on her back. I tried to concentrate on not “thinking” nervous and staying relaxed and soft in my hands and seat. I think I’ll keep her in the back for a while and ask the other folks in the group if they wouldn’t mind playing a little leapfrog leader with us for practice! I will definitely take every opportunity to trail ride with groups.

I don’t believe her diet is an issue - she’s not eating anything that should make her hot. I feed Cadence, which is a low starch texturized feed, 10% protein and 10% fat. Also good quality grass hay, with very little alfalfa.[/QUOTE]

When I said that you have a hot horse, I meant hot-blooded. TB’s are more high-strung than other horses because of all the Arab blood in them. When your not used to riding a get-up-and-go-in-a-pinch kinda horse like TB’s are, it feels very different at first. I havent seen you on this horse so its hard to say for sure what the problem is. Based on what you have said, it doesnt sound like a training issue. Riding TB’s takes a lot of getting used to if you havent had A LOT of experience riding them. As a rule, they are much much hotter than sport-horses, warmbloods, quarter horses and in my opinion, way more sensitive to your emotional and physical state on them. You’ve only been on her 4 times so of course there is going to be some anxiety there. You have to give her time to get use to you and you to her. She is going to pick up on your weaknesses and play you like a fiddle until you figure her out good. I have a feeling that when you completely relax, which is going to take time, you are going to see a big difference in her temperament in the field. Best of luck to you and your new mare!

[QUOTE=TheRedFox;4382976]
When I said that you have a hot horse, I meant hot-blooded. TB’s are more high-strung than other horses because of all the Arab blood in them. When your not used to riding a get-up-and-go-in-a-pinch kinda horse like TB’s are, it feels very different at first. [/QUOTE]

Don’t worry, I knew you meant hot-blooded/high strung. When I mentioned her diet, it was in response to Bogey’s bullet points of things to consider, diet among them.

I have Saddlebreds, so I am very used to hot, high strung horses. Solpresa is actually very laid back, and continued to be laid back, until a few different times when we were galloping. It was very definitely a “race” mentality, as when we’d stop she’d chill right back out. I wasn’t scared that she’d run off or anything, so I don’t think I was transmitting much anxiety to her. Just normal nerves of “new horse, new situation”! Not much gets me frazzled…I just want to learn the best ways that I can teach/help her to relax :smiley: