Our old weedy hayfield needs to be re-seeding. About 1/2 is a timothy mix and the other half is a weedy mix of short grass (June Grass is what they call it around here). We want to plow and re-seed it.
Do we need to have it cut before we can plow it? Or can we just get in there and plow it under?
If we cut it, do we need to remove the cut grass before plowing?
how about contacting your local extension agent … if is a free service
When my hayfields were run down and getting weedy I thought needed to plow and re-seed. I did not - I needed to fertilize and fix the pH.
If the grasses are there but the weeds are outperforming them and choking them out, you might need to spray for them, but just adjusting the pH and fertilizer may allow the grasses to come back and outperform the weeds.
[QUOTE=clanter;8773652]
how about contacting your local extension agent … if is a free service
http://npic.orst.edu/pest/countyext.htm[/QUOTE]
I’m in Canada
[QUOTE=Hilary;8773853]
When my hayfields were run down and getting weedy I thought needed to plow and re-seed. I did not - I needed to fertilize and fix the pH.
If the grasses are there but the weeds are outperforming them and choking them out, you might need to spray for them, but just adjusting the pH and fertilizer may allow the grasses to come back and outperform the weeds.[/QUOTE]
The grasses are only there on half. The farmer who brought us our hay this year said it probably needs to be re-seeded because it probably hasn’t been done in 30 years.
I was skeptical as well -the fields had not been reseeded for about that long. They were mostly just skimpy - nothing much was growing at all. I think it was 3 years after we started yearly fertilizing and liming the yield had tripled. I still have the occasional weed to deal with but once the grasses are strong, they will edge out the weeds.
At the very least, it’s a cheaper and easier experiment.
However, if you are going to go the plow/reseed route, I would cut and clear (by haying) the field first - you don’t want all those weed seeds plowed right back into the soil.
It will be easier to till without all that material in it.
I have to second Hilary, that is the route we took and it’s working beautifully.
Another thought, what people do around my area is burn and then rake or harrow when they want to start rejuvenating a field. It’s easier on the land than plowing, and cheaper, too.
Instead of plowing… (which destroys soil structure). Every time the ground is disturbed weed seed germinates. Some seed can remain viable for many years in the ground. Use Round-up to kill everything, then no-till the new seed through the residue. The dead weeds hold the soil until the new grass can do the job.
By and large no matter how well a hay field is managed there will come a time when it will need to be renovated, started over.
When “June grass” junk grasses start moving in it is only a matter of time before they start to become the “dominate” grass. They are an annual and put out a prolific amount of seeds. Each year getting exponential. I am told they can be somewhat controlled by using a pre-emergent. But this is not cheap.
The same can be said for weeds, thistle and such. But these are easier to get rid of, control than junk grasses.
Both Timothy and Orchard are clump grasses. The plant grows and continues to grow from a “clump” of roots. It does not spread like lawn grass continuously forming, making new grass/plants and covering all of the soil surface leaving little room, open soil for weeds etc to move in.
Me, I would cut close and bale all of the junk that is on it. Cattle people might be interested in taking it off you hands.
Take soil samples from different locations around the field and mark the locations on the bags. So you don’t wast money on over fertilizing ares that may not need as much.
I would then have it plowed under deep as possible. So any junk seeds left will be buried too deep to grow. Have it floated/leveled well and rolled tight. Unless you are going to broadcast seed it. I think it would be best to drag after being floated then broad cast seed, drag again and then rolled tight.
If the seed it going to be drilled then it should be rolled tight before drilling. Either way maybe area/soil specific. Your local hay producers would know the best way to go about and the timing. IMO and experience they are FAR more knowledgeable than extension agents. Very few of which have ever personally planted hay let alone grown, baled and sold it.
Around here smooth Bromegrass hay seed is is mixed with the Timothy and or Orchard seeds when planted. It is a sod-forming perennial grass with deep roots. The grass is highly palatable and is high in protein content and relatively low in crude-fiber content. The Bromegrass fills in the areas around the clumps of Tim or Orchard. Leaving less opportunity for weeds and junk grasses to move in. So you will also get a better yield.
Wish I had been advised to do this when I planted pure stand of Orchard/Tim 12+ years ago. I am battling junk grasses and it only a matter of time until I loose the battle.
Assuming you’re in Sault Ste Marie, Canada, then we are roughly in the same geographic area --we live about 30 min south of the international bridge.
We do all our own hay, and by “we” I mean DH.
DH says if your plow is good enough just plow it under, but some plows aren’t good enough to handle the long grasses. DH says as long as it’s green it’s fine to plow in. If you can’t plow it in you will have to mow it or wait till fall and burn it.
After we plow it, we disc it until DH is happy and then we plant it.
He also suggests using a broadcast spreader vs a seed drill. We used a seed drill last time and didn’t think that it did as nice of a job. It looked cruddy last summer right after we did it but this year it looks lovely.
Feel free to PM me and I can ask DH any questions.
DH adds:
Don’t forget to put in good drainage–that’s really important.
And frost seeding in spring works really well if you have a spreader on an atv.
[QUOTE=RegentLion;8774815]
DH adds:
Don’t forget to put in good drainage–that’s really important.
And frost seeding in spring works really well if you have a spreader on an atv.[/QUOTE]
“Don’t forget to put in good drainage–that’s really important.”
First time I have ever heard this. How many acres are you working with?
My pure stand of Orchard with about 1/3 Timothy mixed in is only 60 acres. The “lay of the land” allows for good drainage but it does have some low spots in places. It would take a lot of effort to “put in drainage”. The return on time and effort wouldn’t justify the gain in yield.
Frost seeding works pretty well depending on the field conditions. But this is really only used for over seeding an existing decent stand IMO and experience. The germination % can be pretty low. Not something to use when spending $100++ per 50 lbs of good seed. Bird can and do feast on the expensive seed. It is winter after all.
An ATV broadcast spreader would not be my first choice unless one is only seeding a few acres at best. The seed hopper is on the small side of things and the “throw” is pretty small. They are not very good with “metering” the amount of seed being spread and being consistent.
I use a 3 point hitch that has a throw of around 20’ and can hold a few hundred pounds of seed. Rental yards that cater to lawn/Ag services also have them for rent.
Some may rent one of these tow behinds also;
The type of “plow” used is very important. The “toy” size can do more damage than good. And create a lot more work. Most hobby and or horse farms do not own the proper equipment needed to do a "proper"job and get a big bang for the expensive seed buck. IMO and experience it is money well spent to contract the seed bed prep and planting to those who have the experience and the equipment.
In my neck of the woods it is well worth cutting and baling the junk that’s growing and then tilling and planting. If having it drilled not all seed drills are well suited for grass seeds. Some people try and get away with using the same set up as used for other types of seeds instead of buying the necessary “conversion kit” for the seed being used.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8774126]
When “June grass” junk grasses start moving in it is only a matter of time before they start to become the “dominate” grass. They are an annual and put out a prolific amount of seeds. Each year getting exponential.
.[/QUOTE]
This is what has happened. We’ve been here 5 years and each year has been a little bit worse.
We have two plows; one is a 3 furrow plow and one is a 2 furrow plow. We have a 55hp tractor.
We also have a disk tiller and a harrow. We will need to have someone do the seeding for us.
We won’t be able to put in drainage but the land is mostly sloped slightly so that hasn’t been an issue in the past. The soil is a very nice sandy loam with good drainage.
We are going to focus on the 10 acre field for now. We have about another 20 acres in the back but we need to remove a lot of the scrubby brush roots before we can really start on that one (we bushhogged it last year but there are lots of the small stump/roots).
Thanks to everyone who replied. We are also going to speak to some of the neighbouring farmers. Most of them seem to know a lot more about my land than I do 
[QUOTE=gumtree;8774868]
“Don’t forget to put in good drainage–that’s really important.”
First time I have ever heard this. How many acres are you working with?
My pure stand of Orchard with about 1/3 Timothy mixed in is only 60 acres. The “lay of the land” allows for good drainage but it does have some low spots in places. It would take a lot of effort to “put in drainage”. The return on time and effort wouldn’t justify the gain in yield.
Frost seeding works pretty well depending on the field conditions. But this is really only used for over seeding an existing decent stand IMO and experience. The germination % can be pretty low. Not something to use when spending $100++ per 50 lbs of good seed. Bird can and do feast on the expensive seed. It is winter after all.
An ATV broadcast spreader would not be my first choice unless one is only seeding a few acres at best. The seed hopper is on the small side of things and the “throw” is pretty small. They are not very good with “metering” the amount of seed being spread and being consistent.
I use a 3 point hitch that has a throw of around 20’ and can hold a few hundred pounds of seed. Rental yards that cater to lawn/Ag services also have them for rent.
Some may rent one of these tow behinds also;
The type of “plow” used is very important. The “toy” size can do more damage than good. And create a lot more work. Most hobby and or horse farms do not own the proper equipment needed to do a "proper"job and get a big bang for the expensive seed buck. IMO and experience it is money well spent to contract the seed bed prep and planting to those who have the experience and the equipment.
In my neck of the woods it is well worth cutting and baling the junk that’s growing and then tilling and planting. If having it drilled not all seed drills are well suited for grass seeds. Some people try and get away with using the same set up as used for other types of seeds instead of buying the necessary “conversion kit” for the seed being used.[/QUOTE]
We operate well over 400 acres. :-). DH and his dad do the rest. I don’t know equipment specifics etc but am picking up knowledge over time.
Land in our area is quite flat and clay based. We put in furrows that lead to larger ditches.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8774881]
We have two plows; one is a 3 furrow plow and one is a 2 furrow plow. We have a 55hp tractor.
We also have a disk tiller and a harrow. We will need to have someone do the seeding for us.
We won’t be able to put in drainage but the land is mostly sloped slightly so that hasn’t been an issue in the past. The soil is a very nice sandy loam with good drainage.
We are going to focus on the 10 acre field for now. We have about another 20 acres in the back but we need to remove a lot of the scrubby brush roots before we can really start on that one (we bushhogged it last year but there are lots of the small stump/roots).
Thanks to everyone who replied. We are also going to speak to some of the neighbouring farmers. Most of them seem to know a lot more about my land than I do :)[/QUOTE]
Our soil is heavy clay and very flat. I wish we had sandy loam!
I have no idea what size plows we have but I think it’s a 6 bottom? Hay making really isn’t my department. DH and his dad handle it.
[QUOTE=RegentLion;8774916]
Our soil is heavy clay and very flat. I wish we had sandy loam!
I have no idea what size plows we have but I think it’s a 6 bottom? Hay making really isn’t my department. DH and his dad handle it.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure about our plows, either. Hubby bought one fairly cheap from an online ad, and the other we hauled out of the bush at the side of the field. We also pulled the tiller and harrow out of the bush That old abandoned farm equipment was definitely built to last.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8773907]
I’m in Canada[/QUOTE]
Check with the rural municipal or county office, they will be able to direct you to the appropriate resources. There should be a provincial ag office somewhere close by.
Better than plowing the whole thing under then preparing the seed bed would be a controlled burn. Where we did one here this spring, not a weed in sight and the grass is lovely and green and much thicker.
I don’t have hayfields, but when I have my pastures maintained, we always cut them SHORT (4") first. The last thing you want is weed seed heads to be plowed under the soil so they can grow again.
[QUOTE=RegentLion;8774906]
We operate well over 400 acres. :-). DH and his dad do the rest. I don’t know equipment specifics etc but am picking up knowledge over time.
Land in our area is quite flat and clay based. We put in furrows that lead to larger ditches.[/QUOTE]
400 acres of hay. That should make a lot of hay and need big equipment.
My 60 acre hay field produces around 225+ tons. My other 50 acres is used for paddocks and ring, out-side courses, hacking etc.
We don’t have any clay, Deep rich topsoil. This area is a big crop area also.
Making, maintaining a hay stand is a PITA to begin with. Don’t think I would bother with it if I had to install and maintain drainage ditches also. But I wouldn’t have anything to do with horses if I lived in an area where water and growing grass was an issue either. Or access to good vets and other service providers.
Since spending time on this forum and seeing/reading what other people have to deal with, put up with. I never realized how lucky I have been. I’m spoiled!
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