Repeat colic for 10 months, every test you could imagine, finally SOLVED

[4horses]

That video was from years ago. Before I even had a diagnosis. At that point the vets were chasing lameness issues and not finding anything. As a young horse she did a lot of bucking, especially on the lunge. It wasn’t until I started riding her and asking for the canter that I could really feel that she didn’t canter right. Then we chased the lameness diagnosis and tried injections, had x rays done. Had her sacroiliac injected as well as trying Adequan. She didn’t start becoming exercise intolerant until her teens when she went down on a trail ride. The first time I thought it was colic, but it kept happening. Then after about 20 minutes of rest or so she would suddenly feel better and by the time we made it back to the trailhead and I was ready to haul her off to the vet, she would be recovered. I had her ovaries checked in case it was internal- everything was normal. My friend who works at the vet school suggested tubing her for colic, but she only gets sick if you exercise her so I didn’t see how that would help.

I always thought it was odd that as a younger horse, the harder I rode her the sounder she would get. A week of riding 2-3 hours a day and she would look fantastic and her canter would improve. The minute I stopped riding her that hard, she would be back to crossfiring again.

Now that she’s getting older , she’s definitely worse… It’s definitely progressing. Now she’s stiff after about 20 minutes of ridden work. I can’t really ride more than 40 to 60 minutes without risking an episode of her having cramps/laying down.

I’m going to put her back on a max dose of vitamin E but I’m not sure that will make a difference at this point.

I really appreciate that she never did toss me off with all these issues. But she was born like this so she probably just learned to tolerate the muscle tightness/disability as best she could. I always thought it felt like a mechanical lameness because she gets choppy but it’s not painful in the way a lameness issue is. If that makes sense. Canter work always made her uncomfortable though.

If it continues to progressively get worse I will probably have her donated to the university. Right now she’s mostly happy and I keep hoping I’ll find some way to keep her condition stable.

[starsandsun]

No - I didn’t do the test because in discussion with Dr. Valberg, we agreed to try the diet to see if it made a difference. I had him on the KER MFM pellets for a long time, but now that he’s recovered, I’m 100% certain his issues were entirely related to trying to move without pain.

[starsandsun]

My guy had muscle trembling for awhile - it did not ever resolve on the PSSM diet or the MFM pellets from KER … but now that he is able to absorb more nutrients, it hasn’t happened in a long time.

[NaturallyHappy]

Can you describe the muscle trembling in more detail somehow? Thank you!

[starsandsun]

Me? Sure … it was more obvious in his flanks, but I also saw it occasionally in shoulder area. Looked like the muscle was ‘shivering’ under the skin. He was never bothered by it, and there wasn’t anything that was a trigger - it wasn’t more obvious after work, for example, and mostly showed up when I first started grooming.

I’m convinced it was because he wasn’t able to absorb the amino acids in his food and supplements. His gut was so out of whack he was not accessing essential nutrients. Since last July when we started to attack his poor gut health with new treatments, I’ve never seen it happen again.

[NaturallyHappy]

Thank you.

[OverandOnward]

@4horses I see a sore-back horse. Rider with a loose seat especially in the leg, often bouncing at the canter. Horse reacting to that.

The mare does seem very willing and kind. She reacts when there is more rider bounce, and is happier when there is less. Her head & neck are very expressive on the point.

As it goes on she’s trying to compensate becoming stiff in the back (and lifting her head/neck). Probably making it worse because it is harder to sit well on a stiff-back horse. It looks like a cycle, the more defensive she gets, the worse it feels to her, so she gets even more defensive, and so on. Eventually she quits.

I realize old riding habits can be ingrained. If the rider can get feet underneath their body, weight down in the heels, and stand a bit in the stirrups with flexible knees and hip to get off her back, I wonder if she would be happier with that. To make that work the horse does have to show some energy and move up into the bit. But this mare looks as if that is possible, she moves well. If the horse’s motion falls behind the rider’s balance it’s going to be hard to maintain this position.

Other than that this looks like a nice horse with plenty of energy. If she and the rider can come to an agreement, looks like a nice match with this rider.

[RAyers]

I would say the concern over Pseudonomas is overstated. It is common in the GI tract as it is ubiquitous in the environment, living in the soil, on plants, etc. and is thus ingested continuously by horses (and humans). Its overt presence is likely an indicator of gut dysbiosis, however, the vet would have had to do 16S or shotgun metagenomics to actually measure how prevalent it is relative to the normal equine GI microbiome. Next generation metagenomic methods are used extensively in research laboratories like mine but is very, very expensive.

The presence of Shigella genus is probably a pathogen that they are treating (it is associated with dysentery and is genetically similar to E. coli) as it is treated with enroflaxcin. In both cases, these bacteria are a very small population of even a diseased equine GI microbiome where over 1000 associated species have been categorized in the equine GI tract.

[starsandsun]

All I can tell you is the repeated bacterial analysis showed overgrowth, and in treating with enrofloxacin the stomach lining improved markedly, and the intestinal inflammation decreased.

I wish I knew more so that I could have a more productive response … I think you’re saying pseudonomas are in the Shigella genus? I can look up the lab that did all the analyses if that would be useful.

[RAyers]

I was posting to try to help clarify the treatment your horse received and why the vets chose it.

Pseudonomas are their own genus. Shigella is another genus. They are two very different bacteria. One is quite common (Pseudonomas) and the other is not.

I spend my days attempting to identify unknown bacteria associated in the spine of humans when we do spinal reconstruction (NIH funded). The reality is that mammalian body is not pristine and is full of synergistic and other microbes (thousands of different species and hundreds of genus- bacteria and fungi).

I assume the vet sent samples to be cultured for identification? Clinical determination of a pathogen is only successful about 50% of the time as only specific microbes grow in that environment (favors aerobic species over anaerobes). They also only identify what is in the known databases.

[starsandsun]

So interesting. Yes, it was cultured over a period of a few days to see what would grow. Thank you!

[4horses]

I really wish it was simply a case of sore back… But her back does not palpate sore. Trust me the vets checked. She’s bounding in the canter, she’s cross cantering and losing the lead and she does this without a rider as well. She’s severely exercise intolerant to the point she just stops, parks out in a urinary stance, and cannot physically move, starts pawing and lays down if you exercise her too hard. This is common in Pssm horses- canter issues are a symptom of the disease. So are colic like symptoms during or after exercise.

[starsandsun]

Any updates to report? Hope your boy is doing ok.

[PaddockWood]

I think it’s safe to say for sure, a horse with sore muscles is going to feel better moving on the absolute best footing possible, a saddle that fits, and a rider who moves with the horse in harmony.

I’m not speaking about 4 horses just in general. As I wrap my head around my guy’s PSSM2 dx and put together a plan of action it certainly includes ticking all boxes to help him feel his best. I’m thinking a Beemer blanket, a body washdown in the summer of Sore No More and all the obvious other things - diet, exercise program etc. A solarium in the winter.

[starsandsun]

Do look into learning some myofascial release techniques. Also the Equilibrium massager. Dr. Valberg did some research into myofascial release, and in the small study it was really obvious which side of the horse had the massage. So I use it also and my boy loves it.

[PaddockWood]

I’ve never heard of that massager? It’s modest in price and did you get one? I’ve been into bodywork for years and have practiced myofascial work but do need training. Can you share what exercise protocol she recommended. Tonight I had him trot after just a minute of walking did an 8 min set - 4 min each direction and using most of my arena. What I notice after having him blanketed for 4 days or so now and a 4 days of more structured trot work is that he is no longer biting at me. Did see muscle trembling the other night for a short bit.

[Epanafero]

I’m so sorry to drop off the radar, such a busy week. But good news, I’ve talked to Dr. Polkes clinic and am on my way to scheduling an appointment. They have availability but there are a lot of logistics for me to orgainze, vets to contact, transportation to arrange, etc. But the process is underway. My goal is to have him seen in February.

My gut tells me (no pun intended) that if an answer is to be found, this is where I will find it.

As to how he is doing, same as he’s been. In the space of 2 weeks, for 2-4 random days he’s fantastic, for 2-4 days (also not consecutive) we’re all keeping an eye on him to make sure he doesn’t go really south and the rest of the time he’s in between. He’s always happy to see me, still enjoying our walks in the woods, increasingly his training is on hold and we stick to working on manners. All good signs and I’m SO thankful I have a plan to try to diagnose and maybe start helping him long before spring grass starts coming in.

I don’t really have pics of him bloating because he’s black and just like you its really hard to get a good picture of a black cat… but I’ll put up pics of him anyway just because. This pic was recent, he was fantastic at the time of the pic, but that evening very bloated and had a temp.

[Epanafero]

This is a pic of his poo. I broke it open to see if it seemed underdigested. It’s hard to imagine he’s digesting / getting nutrients necessary given his symptoms. And when he’s really bloated and uncomfortable, he is frantic when he eats.

[starsandsun]

I am so pleased to hear you’re working on getting him seen by Dr. Polkes! I do think she will get to the bottom of this. Can’t wait to hear how things go.

And, he is GORGEOUS.

[Epanafero]

You are so kind Thank you for mentioning him to the clinic, it was really so kind. Send me a PM if you’d like and I keep you posted on the boring (to others) logistical updates