Replacing leather washes on antique carriages.

[nfld_pony]

We have a small collection (5) of antique carriages. They’re all in okay condition, but this one is exceptionally great.

In November there’s a “Toy Ride” where millions (okay, so maybe 75…) horses parade through town with toys to be donated to the local charities for needy kids.

My 12.2 ponies are far too little to pull this carriage, and my 13.2 stallion isn’t/won’t be able to do parades by then, especially in something not undercut! One of the ladies that I’ve been helping out has a Morgan (the one that didn’t bend and dropped his shoulder we fixed that, thanks!) and he’s 14.3hh - just right for his vehicle. The only thing is the wheels wobble.

They are on there as tight as the bolts will go, but there’s still play in them. My dad said that he remembers something about leather washers that you put over the axle before or after the wheels are bolted on.

Can you still get these? Is anything else able to be used? Help!

[gothedistance]

Yes, you can still get them. Call Witmer Coach Shop (New Holland, PA) at 717 656-3411 (M-F 7AM-5PM, Sat 7AM-11AM) to order a roll (the washers come as one long coiled roll of leather – you cut off pieces to fit around your axle head.) Since they are Mennonites, the transaction will be the old fashioned way (check) but they are super nice and very prompt.

To change the leather washers remove the wheel nut off the first wheel of the carriage, jack up the carriage using a carriage jack (or lift the side of the carriage so that you can place the axle on a sturdy stand that will lift the wheel at least 1" off the ground) gently take off the wheel (it should slide right off), remove the old leather washer (note it may have one or two - if it has two you will see a washer in the front and one in the back of the axle head). Make sure you note where they are placed on the axle spindle because this is where the new one(s) will go. Clean off the axle spindle with a soft dry rag.

Cut off a piece of the new leather coil so that the piece fits neatly around the end of the axle (you can use the old washer(s) as a guide to how much to cut off the roll). Check to make sure the leather ends will just touch each other when placed around the axle end. Remove the new washer(s) and smear a good coating of axle grease on the leather using standard car axle grease. Put the new washer(s) back on the axle and now coat the axle spindle liberally with axle grease. Run a bit of new grease inside the wheel hub collar, replace the wheel onto the axle sliding it on carefully so that you don’t move the new washer out of place, and replace the nut, hand tightening it, but not fiercely. Do this for the remaining three wheels, and you’re set.

Your wheels should no longer wobble. It they do, the metal collar in the wheel is probably worn and needs to be replaced, or the axle is shot.

You should see some excess grease oozing out of the inside wheel hub as the carriage is used - just wipe it off with the soft rag. Don’t go too long before you check and repack the axles again – about every 100 miles or so of use should be fine.

That is an adorable little 1/4 turn runabout. It appears to be missing it’s dashboard, but am I right that I did see it still had the wheel-catch rollers (on the side of the carriage where the front wheels would hit if the vehicle was turned tight). If not, you certainly want to get a set for either side - very important safety issue with anything not cut under. If you look into getting a drop pole for this antique, I’m sure your pair of 12.2h ponies could pull it without issue. These types of vehicles were very lightweight, designed for traveling the straight city and suburban era roads of the late 19th century. Not designed for whipping around tight turns, however!

Have fun!

[goodhors]

Really good information from GTD on greasing wheels and washers.

You may already know this, but the wheel nut on the axle turns right on one side of the vehicle, and turns left on the other side, when you need to remove them! This prevents the wheel nut from being spun off with the wheel going in the same direction.

We had always heard about the “left-handed buggy axle nut” as being the hardest item to find on scavenger hunts from our grandparents. Thought it was a joke until we got into carriages!

You will want to do each wheel alone. Take it off, grease and replace the washer, tighten the nut. This prevents ANY mixup of wheels or nuts while putting them back on. Old vehicles tend to wear differently on each axle stub over time of use, so changing a back wheel to a front axle, can make things go badly. Wheels are NOT interchangable anymore, like when it was new. Parts just do not fit together well. The hub and axle of each wheel corner wear into each other, marrying is the term, so are always best left together for vehicle lifetime.

Modern vehicle wheels with roller bearings are interchangable, hubs kept greased well do not wear on the axle stubs like the old vehicles do.

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=goodhors;4297064]
Really good information from GTD on greasing wheels and washers.

You may already know this, but the wheel nut on the axle turns right on one side of the vehicle, and turns left on the other side, when you need to remove them! This prevents the wheel nut from being spun off with the wheel going in the same direction.

Easy way to remember - turn backwards to remove - forwards to tighten.

We had always heard about the “left-handed buggy axle nut” as being the hardest item to find on scavenger hunts from our grandparents. Thought it was a joke until we got into carriages!

stub over time of use, so changing a back wheel to a front axle, can make things go badly. Wheels are NOT interchangable anymore, like when it was new. Parts just do not fit together well. The hub and axle of each wheel corner wear into each other, marrying is the term, so are always best left together for vehicle lifetime.

The Wheels never were interchangable front to back - they are different sizes. The front wheels are smaller to accomidate the fifth wheel.

Modern vehicle wheels with roller bearings are interchangable, hubs kept greased well do not wear on the axle stubs like the old vehicles do.[/QUOTE]

Another point with the antiques is to look inside the lip of the wheel nut. A leather washer should be there. If there isn’t one make sure to add one.

As for finding the washers - Driving Essentials also carries them, or if you are near an Amish community you can probably get some there - you can also get a buggy jack there as well. If you need them quickly you can probably get some dense leather cut in stripes that are approximatly 1/4" square and use them the same way. They don’t need to be cut in spiral, it is just easier.

Christa

[nfld_pony]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;4295989]

That is an adorable little 1/4 turn runabout. It appears to be missing it’s dashboard, but am I right that I did see it still had the wheel-catch rollers (on the side of the carriage where the front wheels would hit if the vehicle was turned tight). If not, you certainly want to get a set for either side - very important safety issue with anything not cut under. If you look into getting a drop pole for this antique, I’m sure your pair of 12.2h ponies could pull it without issue. These types of vehicles were very lightweight, designed for traveling the straight city and suburban era roads of the late 19th century. Not designed for whipping around tight turns, however![/QUOTE]

Thanks! I really like it too. I’ve only driven it once. It was my ponies first time in a four wheeler (not an ideal 1st four wheeler, I know but it was my birthday so I didn’t care…!)

We have the dashboard, but we need special bolts to hold it up. We have one though we’ve just moved and probably lost it. It’s got a flat back, and it’s sorta shaped like a flat pyramid with the point being threaded. If we had those, I would be able to screw it back on.

It doesn’t have rollers. It just has a metal part that sticks out. you can see the wheel has touched it lots over the years as there is a chunk that’s been ground away in the shape of the fully turned wheel.

I’ve looked for those as well. Someone said that driving essentials would have them. I don’t see those (but I did see the washer coils there, thanks!) I would feel better if they had them, but I can also see my dad wanting to keep it ‘‘all original’’.

My 12.2 mare pulled it without an issue. It’s just that the shafts are horse size so she was this little thing out at the end of the shafts, nowhere near me. I wouldn’t mind driving it as a pairs vehicle though… I’ve got to get a pairs harness. where’s all this money coming from!?!

Also I didn’t like now loud the metal bands on the road were! The poor horse couldn’t hear me asking for a walk or trot or anything!

[gothedistance]

Wheel stops that were solid metal were used with metal rimmed wheels. As long as your wheels remain metal rimmed, you’re fine with the solid stops. (We’ve changed over every one of our metal rimmed wheels to rubber wheels because I couldn’t stand the noise, either!)

If you change the wheels over to rubber wheels, you absolutely need to change the wheel stops to rollers. You can tell your father that these are still authentic.

If you get the leather washers from Witmer’s, ask them to send you a catalog. There is an excellent chance you will find your dashboard bolts listed in their inventory.

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;4297997]
Wheel stops that were solid metal were used with metal rimmed wheels. As long as your wheels remain metal rimmed, you’re fine with the solid stops. (We’ve changed over every one of our metal rimmed wheels to rubber wheels because I couldn’t stand the noise, either!)

If you change the wheels over to rubber wheels, you absolutely need to change the wheel stops to rollers. You can tell your father that these are still authentic.

If you get the leather washers from Witmer’s, ask them to send you a catalog. There is an excellent chance you will find your dashboard bolts listed in their inventory.[/QUOTE]

I HAD one with non-cutunder with rubber wheels and the rollers. I broke BOTH reaches (different times) when the rubber caused the wheel to lock against the box. With the metal rims there is no problem with the wheels locking - much safer IMO. (NOTE - yes I do drive pleasure show obstacle classes with a non-cutunder, including tight, fast turns with a pair. For going down the road it doesn’t matter unless the equine(s) decide to spook)

If you want smaller shafts or a pole you can easily get them in any Amish community or you can probably order them from most carriage makers. This is the very nice thing about this type of carriage. A simple change of shafts or a pole and the vehicle is set for a different size equine.

A photo of my 12H pair is here:

http://s620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/cap7297/?action=view&current=showpairandpond2.jpg

This vehicle has also been shown with a smaller (~11H) pair, 13H single, and 16H single.

Christa

[gothedistance]

Christa - Your pair is just ADORABLE!! What a pretty turnout all around!

And yes, you are right – a rubber wheel when pressed hard enough against the rollers can cause the rollers to bind, but generally speaking the driver should never turn the wheels (on a 1/4 turn vehicle) sharp enough to cause such a problem. Those rollers are really there to save the side of the body from being accidentally scored by the wheels and to allow the wheel to keep turning if it did hit the side of the body so as to give the driver that precious second or so to straighten out the horse/pair before the vehicle was damaged or flipped…or both.

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;4299175]
Christa - Your pair is just ADORABLE!! What a pretty turnout all around!

And yes, you are right – a rubber wheel when pressed hard enough against the rollers can cause the rollers to bind, but generally speaking the driver should never turn the wheels (on a 1/4 turn vehicle) sharp enough to cause such a problem. Those rollers are really there to save the side of the body from being accidentally scored by the wheels and to allow the wheel to keep turning if it did hit the side of the body so as to give the driver that precious second or so to straighten out the horse/pair before the vehicle was damaged or flipped…or both.[/QUOTE]

I agree about generally not turning too tight, but to be competitive in obstacle classes sometime I need to push things a little and with the metal rims there is no chance of the wheels binding. On my vehicle there are metal pieces to protect the box so the I only need to touch up the paint as needed and the carriage was just painted 2 years ago so I have extra.

I can also say these are VERY stable carriages - I have put mine in a few precarious positions are have never felt like it was going to flip. The other one that I broke the reaches on never felt like it was going to flip, even with the wheel under the box. It is also a very nice ride - much more comfortable than my mom’s modern meadowbrook.

Christa

[nfld_pony]

[QUOTE=Christa P;4299960]
much more comfortable than my mom’s modern meadowbrook. [/QUOTE]

Say that 10x fast!!

The shafts are currently heel drops. i’d need to put her in them again so see how they should be or where the pole should land.