replacing old fencing

[bearcat920]

Hi - First post here.

We bought a house with existing fencing 2 years ago. Half is old, dry-rotted 3 rail PVC fencing and the other half is wooden post with 5 strands of barbless-wire. We want to replace all of it with 4 rail post and board fence. 3500 feet in total. We are in NW Arkansas and the prices quoted are extremely high, at least for us, between $1200 and $1500 per 100 feet, so we are just going to do it ourselves.

My 2 questions

1.When replacing the posts, can i put the new posts in the holes the old posts were in and then backfill, or do i need to place the new posts in new holes? I have a post hole digger for my Kubota tractor.

2. If i need to drill new holes, can i use my 6" auger for 5-6" posts or do i need to step up to a 9"? I know I’ll need to rent a 9" for the gate posts.

Thank you,
Jake

[clanter]

long shot but that PVC fence may have a warranty that could have been transferred… most of the manufactures had Long warranties to entice people to buy. Many were 25 year and could be transferred at least once.

Can your new posts be driven rather then set into bored holes?

[ToTheNines]

If you end up digging post holes…For my arena fencing with 4x4 posts, I thought I would be real smart and use a small auger. I think they used a 6" auger. The trouble with a small auger is that if it is not perfectly vertical, you’ll have trouble getting the post straight. A bigger hole gives you more wiggle room, literally. Just a thought.

[equionekanobe]

Also, use concrete specific for posts (Postcrete in UK) it goes off at the right rate and makes positioning easy

[Mango20]

I’ve used the old holes to replace individual posts, so that should probably be fine for you. The trouble you’ll have is the spacing, particularly on the wire section, probably. Board fence posts are usually 8’ apart but wire fences are usually spaced farther apart.

[gahorseygal]

You will want a bigger auger for more wiggle room when setting posts. Have you taken out the PVC posts? We have PVC 3 rail that I hate but was told it would be an awful job to remove as they are concreted in. Would love to hear how you get them out.

[ASB_Stars]

The 6" auger, or the old post holes, will be fine. Remember, when you use the larger auger, you have much more to pack in around the posts, and that’s when you get loose, leaning posts. The smaller hole might need to be cleaned up a bit, but you will end up with a better set post. Also, as regards digging the holes, use a string line to get a new fence line straight, and spray paint the ground where the posts go- then, get someone to make sure that the auger is perpendicular to the ground, prior to digging. The easiest was is to put the auger down onto the spray painted mark, and then go back or forward until it is straight. You absolutely need a second set of eyes for this. Ask me how I know…:lol:

[Unfforgettable]

It is well worth having someone drive the posts if you can. I just fenced another five acres this summer…and I have a tractor and auger. But I still hired someone to drive the posts and then I finished the rest of the fencing myself. They are sturdier, and the guys who did mine had eighty -posts and corners and bracing done in just over four hours. It would have taken me days using the tractor and auger, and it cost $6 per post to have them driven. Worth every penny.

[Palm_Beach]

Let me tell you that removing old posts that were concreted in is the worst job ever.

[Bombproof]

A 6" post is huge. I very much doubt they need to be that big. I’ve never used posts that large except for the corner posts. 4" posts would weigh less, cost less, and do the job just fine. Bear in mind that with a rail fence the posts are nailed to horizontal solid rails which increases the strength of the construction relative to wire and I’ve contained some very large beasts with wire on 4" posts. You’ll want your holes to be 2" to 4" wider than your posts or you’ll have trouble getting them vertical. Yes, that gives you more hole to fill in after the post is placed but trust me, that is the easiest part of building a fence. You don’t need to concrete them if the hole is deep enough and you use posts specifically made for fencing. On my family farm there is a fence my father and I built 45 years ago with pressure-treated posts and it’s still standing. I wouldn’t concrete them because it’s expensive and unnecessary and removing them causes much cursing. Dig your post holes 1/3 the depth of the post length. If you want a 4’ high fence, use 6’ posts and bury them 2’ deep. Put the boards on the animal side of the fence so they can’t pull the nails by leaning on the fence because they WILL lean on it. As for using the old holes, when you pull out the posts you will have a hole exactly the size of a post. After trying to jam posts into the holes a couple of times you’ll give up and drill out the old holes anyway. Just start with new holes. That way you know the spacing is right.

The most secure way to attach the rails to the posts is with screws but that’s expensive and time-consuming. Borrow or rent a pneumatic nail gun. You’ll thank me later. You can dramatically reduce the time to get the boards up compared to screwing or using a hammer. Use a level on each post to be sure they’re vertical when you install them and on each board to be sure it’s perfectly horizontal, otherwise you’ll find that in some places your boards don’t reach and in others they’re too long. Install the top board first the entire length of the fence because if you get the spacing right at the top it will be right below but if you get it even a little off at the bottom the error will be magnified at the top.

[jawa]

We removed the concreted posts when it was wet / water table was up and used a 4 in 1 bucket. First, we pushed and pulled with the bucket, then we opened the “mouth” of the 4 in 1 and grabbed the post and pulled it up.

[Palm_Beach]

@jawa

We removed the concreted posts when it was wet / water table was up and used a 4 in 1 bucket. First, we pushed and pulled with the bucket, then we opened the “mouth” of the 4 in 1 and grabbed the post and pulled it up.

Yep. And then you had to use the bucket to move the post with the bottom encased in concrete so it can be disposed of. They are too heavy for one person to pick up. So how did you dispose of them?

[jawa]

@Palm Beach

Yep. And then you had to use the bucket to move the post with the bottom encased in concrete so it can be disposed of. They are too heavy for one person to pick up. So how did you dispose of them?

The concrete knocked off and the posts were reused.

[bearcat920]

Oh my gosh. Thank you everyone for the comments, suggestions and advice. Sorry, we had a very sick pet and my mind totally slipped from this post. Our cat is much better, but we were very uncertain if he was going to make it for a few days.

We haven’t started on any work just yet. Probably will get started in late winter or early spring. I will start with the paddock for our minis. It’s 1 acre, mostly with that awful pvc fence but some is wood post with wire, so i’ll get a good feel for how the rest of the job will go.

I’ll ask around on driving posts. The soil here on my property is pretty rocky. They call it red dirt, but it’s not really dirt. Mostly clay and rocks anywhere from baseball size to small-block engine size. That’s why i am very curious about the possibility of reusing the old post holes.

[ASB_Stars]

It sounds like a skid steer would be your friend. You can rent one, and get the 4" auger for it AND a bucket. You can use the bucket to pull those nasty posts out of the ground, and if they have concrete, carry them to an area where you can stack them until you figure out what to do with them. At least you can get them out of your way, without killing yourself handling them. They are no joke nasty.

[jawa]

If you want to reuse the old post holes, you could get a load of rock dust to use as backfill. You’d still need a tractor with a bucket to make light work of the project.

[bearcat920]

Already have a tractor with bucket and auger. Just waiting for a good weekend to get started.

[bearcat920]

@Bombproof

A 6" post is huge. I very much doubt they need to be that big. I’ve never used posts that large except for the corner posts. 4" posts would weigh less, cost less, and do the job just fine. Bear in mind that with a rail fence the posts are nailed to horizontal solid rails which increases the strength of the construction relative to wire and I’ve contained some very large beasts with wire on 4" posts. You’ll want your holes to be 2" to 4" wider than your posts or you’ll have trouble getting them vertical. Yes, that gives you more hole to fill in after the post is placed but trust me, that is the easiest part of building a fence. You don’t need to concrete them if the hole is deep enough and you use posts specifically made for fencing. On my family farm there is a fence my father and I built 45 years ago with pressure-treated posts and it’s still standing. I wouldn’t concrete them because it’s expensive and unnecessary and removing them causes much cursing. Dig your post holes 1/3 the depth of the post length. If you want a 4’ high fence, use 6’ posts and bury them 2’ deep. Put the boards on the animal side of the fence so they can’t pull the nails by leaning on the fence because they WILL lean on it. As for using the old holes, when you pull out the posts you will have a hole exactly the size of a post. After trying to jam posts into the holes a couple of times you’ll give up and drill out the old holes anyway. Just start with new holes. That way you know the spacing is right.

The most secure way to attach the rails to the posts is with screws but that’s expensive and time-consuming. Borrow or rent a pneumatic nail gun. You’ll thank me later. You can dramatically reduce the time to get the boards up compared to screwing or using a hammer. Use a level on each post to be sure they’re vertical when you install them and on each board to be sure it’s perfectly horizontal, otherwise you’ll find that in some places your boards don’t reach and in others they’re too long. Install the top board first the entire length of the fence because if you get the spacing right at the top it will be right below but if you get it even a little off at the bottom the error will be magnified at the top.

Could you explain more on the posts being nailed to horizontal solid rails? Every horse fence i see around here and at the barn we boarded at back in ohio, have a 16’ rail nailed across 3 posts. If they put the rails on the outside of the fence, a vertical board is nailed over the horizontal rails to reinforce, or that is what I think the vertical board is being used for.

I want to make sure i am understanding your recommendation correctly. Thanks!

[Bombproof]

@bearcat920

Could you explain more on the posts being nailed to horizontal solid rails? Every horse fence i see around here and at the barn we boarded at back in ohio, have a 16’ rail nailed across 3 posts. If they put the rails on the outside of the fence, a vertical board is nailed over the horizontal rails to reinforce, or that is what I think the vertical board is being used for.

I want to make sure i am understanding your recommendation correctly. Thanks!

I think we’re talking about the same thing. What I called rails are the horizontal boards that make up the fence itself. They lock the posts together and strengthen them so the posts don’t have to be as large as you were contemplating.

[Janet]

If they put the rails on the outside of the fence, a vertical board is nailed over the horizontal rails to reinforce, or that is what I think the vertical board is being used for.

You do NOT want to put the boards on the outside of the fence. It is too easy for the horse to pop the board loos by leaning on it. The fascia board helps some, but it is still better to put the boards on the inside.