Reputable Breeders versus Rescue

[DownYonder]

@S1969

I know a variety of people who send their dogs out with handlers and they aren’t all big money people. There are various reasons to send the dog with a handler, and they might know how well they will do.

My current breed is a Welsh Terrier, and I’ve been told that is pretty common in terriers for the dog to live with its handler while being campaigned. A lot of it has to do with the need for regular grooming, esp. in the wire-coated terrier breeds that need to be hand-stripped at specific intervals so they can stay show-ring ready. Not many “amateur” terrier owners know how to do that kind of stripping, or have the time or inclination to do it on a regular basis.

And like in many other breeds, a lot of breeders/owners of “show” terriers try to place their dogs in pet homes after their show and breeding careers are over. That can certainly be a win-win-win for all concerned. In our case, we got a lovely, well-bred, AKC champion bitch (who also happened to be crate-trained - a big plus!). The bitch got a loving home where she is well-cared for and doted on by people who adore her. And the breeder/owner got one of his homebreds placed in a good home, which made room for him to keep one of her daughters to carry on her bloodline.

[Mara]

OK, I get the point. I shouldn’t be so judgy…and hey, as long as the dog is cared for, which clearly these dogs are, it doesn’t matter whose name is on the paper.
But I am also one of those people who can’t imagine finding any sort of fulfillment in the type of horse ownership that sees the owner fly in, take the reins of the groomed, bathed, braided, fully tacked horse from the groom at the in-gate, go jump 8 fences, then hand the horse back to the groom. Yet I have microshares in racehorses.

And we just picked up a retired show/breeding dog this weekend. He’s 10, and his breeder places a lot of her retirees in pet homes where they can get away from hectic kennel life and get more one-on-one love and attention. She cried when she let him go, too. I understand better now.

[S1969]

@DownYonder

My current breed is a Welsh Terrier, and I’ve been told that is pretty common in terriers for the dog to live with its handler while being campaigned.

The top dogs are showing every weekend - they all live with their handlers, at least for weeks on end…but most for the full show season. That usually means living in the trainer’s kennel, but some dogs might be invited into the house.

Even when dogs are not out every weekend, most handlers prefer the dog with them. Many charge extra to do “ringside handling” for a variety of reasons.

@DownYonder

And like in many other breeds, a lot of breeders/owners of “show” terriers try to place their dogs in pet homes after their show and breeding careers are over.

While this does happen, it’s not really that common, at least not in my breed. It’s not like a majority of dogs, that’s for sure. Again…could be breed dependent, but in my breed and most of the ones I’m familiar with - most owners keep their dogs, even if they don’t breed them and even if they hire handlers.

That said, I don’t know anyone with a Top 10 all breed dog. I have known some handlers with Top 10 dogs and they did have them for most of the year. I know quite a number of owners in the Top 10 of my breed and some of them use handlers.

In some breeds it would be difficult to be ranked that highly in the breed without a pro.

[swmorse]

Saw a pic of a Irish doodle yesterday. Thought about sharing it but it was too much work. Irish setter poodle mix. Looked like a dark red longish curly haired poodle

[DownYonder]

@AltersAreUs

@Mara

The people I can’t understand or relate to are the people like Cecilia Ruggles, who owned two Westminster BIS, Stump the Sussex Spaniel and JR the Bichon. She paid for the dogs and turned them over to a top handler halfway across the country. After their big wins both dogs retired to live with the handler, who had them until they died from old age. As far as I know these two dogs never set foot in the woman’s house.

How is this any difference than the big money “owners” who never put a foot in the stirrup? They’re enjoying owning a winning animal, no different than those well-heeled co-owners of the upper level dressage & hunter horses.

I have been on the verge of embarking on co-ownership of a super young up-and-coming dog. I can’t have him at home because he needs to be with his handler to continue his campaign. Once he finishes showing - which will hopefully not be for several years (he is being aimed at the top) - he will probably stay with his handler for a while. Neither I nor the other co-owners have an inclination to manage his stud career and the handler and her staff are much better equipped to do it. After interest in him as a stud dwindles, he will most likely come to live with one of the owners. We will see how things look when that time comes.

I have no misgivings about not having him here with me. He has been with the handler for nearly a year now, and that is pretty much all he knows since he left his breeder. He is happy and joyful and seems very content with life. And since I already have an “at-home” dog, I can focus all my love and attention on her.

[Saskatoonian]

@DownYonder

After interest in him as a stud dwindles, he will most likely come to live with one of the owners. We will see how things look when that time comes.

I understand wondering how a person could own a dog she never lives with, but this is the flip side: what DY is describing here is a dog with a super support network. Breeder, handler, owners, and he’ll show as long as he likes, then breed, then be a straight companion.

[AltersAreUs]

@S1969

Even when dogs are not out every weekend, most handlers prefer the dog with them. Many charge extra to do “ringside handling” for a variety of reasons.

Yeah but then the handlers aren’t getting boarding fees for keeping the dogs with them all the time. Handlers charge daily boarding fees and they’re also missing out on the hotel & gas fees they get from dogs that are part of their traveling set. It’s a money thing … ringside pickups are a LOT less money per show for the handler even if the cost per go-around is more.

[DownYonder]

@AltersAreUs

@S1969

Even when dogs are not out every weekend, most handlers prefer the dog with them. Many charge extra to do “ringside handling” for a variety of reasons.

Yeah but then the handlers aren’t getting boarding fees for keeping the dogs with them all the time. Handlers charge daily boarding fees and they’re also missing out on the hotel & gas fees they get from dogs that are part of their traveling set. It’s a money thing … ringside pickups are a LOT less money per show for the handler even if the cost per go-around is more.

It is also easier to keep the dog in a show “mindset” when it stays with the handler. I used to work for a professional handler, and the dogs that were brought to the show by their owners and then handed off to us before going in the ring, almost always needed a “refresher” on show ring demeanor and behavior. They sometimes (often) also needed grooming of some sort - sometimes just a bit of trimming and fluffing, but some of the long coated breeds like Afghan Hounds or Old English Sheepdogs needed a bit more work to get them ready to go into the ring.

I will say though that we usually felt a certain sense of relief when we came out of the ring and could simply hand the dog back to its owner - one last critter to have to care for while on the road.

[gertie06]

Late to respond, but…not at all! I’m a rescue nut myself, and all my dogs are rescues. I’m only talking about people who want purebred puppies. This is really a hot button for me, because so many of these folks are making decisions based on cuteness factor. They think X breed is cute, so they go buy a purebred X breed puppy from whomever. They do limited research regarding the characteristics of the breed, and whether it’ll fit with their family and lifestyle. Let alone the reputability of the breeder.

[Kemosabe]

@gertie06

This is really a hot button for me, because so many of these folks are making decisions based on cuteness factor. They think X breed is cute, so they go buy a purebred X breed puppy from whomever. They do limited research regarding the characteristics of the breed, and whether it’ll fit with their family and lifestyle. Let alone the reputability of the breeder.

That’s a whole other issue. And it also affects rescues in that people see a cute mixed breed that they want to rescue without paying any attention to what that mixed breed is. I am seeing this currently with a friend of mine, who went to a rescue and fell in love with a 6 month old mixed breed puppy (hound/terrier) and now she is complaining about how the puppy is totally focused on following her nose. What do you expect with a hound? That’s what they do, that’s what they are bred for.

It is the responsibility of breeders to make sure potential puppy owners understand the traits and needs of the breed. I have turned potential owners down when their lifestyle or their dog skills aren’t ready for a dog like an Aussie.

We know the pandemic rocketed back yard breeding into the stratosphere and prices of puppies soared. Backyard breeders aren’t necessarily going to be picky when it comes to who they sell their puppies too. It’s a real problem.

[S1969]

@Kemosabe

We know the pandemic rocketed back yard breeding into the stratosphere and prices of puppies soared. Backyard breeders aren’t necessarily going to be picky when it comes to who they sell their puppies too. It’s a real problem.

Yes, this is THE problem.

I’m not sure there is a solution, but this issue is often depicted by the buyer as “Purebred breeders/show breeders are so pretentious that they won’t sell a regular old pet owner a dog. Because we’re not good enough. So I’ll just have to find a breeder who WILL sell me a dog.”

When the reality is that the breeder might sell a lot of puppies to “pet owners” - but only the ones who really are a good match for the breed.

My breed is super cute, especially as puppies. My dogs get a lot of routine, off lead exercise, every day. Even when it’s -10F, or 98F. Because they need it. So when people meet my dogs they often see them very relaxed, mellow or sleeping. Don’t be fooled. They are that way because I put in a lot of time and effort with them. They are NOT going to be a good backyard pet in a suburban neighborhood where they get walked morning/evening and have a 1/4 acre fenced lot to “run around in.” That’s not nearly enough, and the result is a smart dog with nearly infinite energy who is going to dig holes, eat books, and bark at pedestrians because they need an outlet for that energy.

[Kemosabe]

@S1969

When the reality is that the breeder might sell a lot of puppies to “pet owners” - but only the ones who really are a good match for the breed.

Bingo!

My FB feed is full of Aussie groups, and daily multiple postings from various new owners and their problems with their Aussie puppies. Some are first time dog owners, and Aussies wouldn’t be in my top twenty picks of breeds for a first time dog owner. And yes, within days or a month that cute pup is running the household…and then comes the rehoming posts, and the need to get my Aussie into a rescue posts.

Responsibility lies on both sides of the fence. Backyard breeders could be more discriminating, both in what lines they breed to, genetic testing, OFA, how they raise the pups, as well as matching pups with potential owners. Potential owners could do a little homework, research the breed, get in touch with the parent breed club, talk to reputable breeders, talk to clients of reputable breeders.

I feel badly for owners who buy an Aussie puppy from a backyard breeder and end up finding out the pup is deaf, or has epilepsy, or a ridiculous level of anxiety and fear and then aggression.

[gertie06]

…and then they don’t understand why the rescues don’t want to take the wild, untrained, destructive adolescent dog.

[AltersAreUs]

@S1969

When the reality is that the breeder might sell a lot of puppies to “pet owners” - but only the ones who really are a good match for the breed.

Yep but people take being turned down as a personal insult - like they must be dog abusers instead of listening when the breeder says “look, your 1000 sq ft apartment & 10 hour a day work schedule is not going to be a good match for a malinois”. So instead, they go find Joe Bob with a litter ever few months and pick out a puppy and the rescues get to pick up the mess 6 months later.

[Dr_Doolittle]

And the trainers are expected to fix this (ask me how I know )

[BrendaJane]

I LOVE Malinois!
But lord knows I am not a candidate to own one. I have never had the necessary energy level to match theirs.

[AltersAreUs]

@BrendaJane

I LOVE Malinois!
But lord knows I am not a candidate to own one. I have never had the necessary energy level to match theirs.

If you can put up with the hair, most tervurens & groendendaels in the US are a LOT more laid back than US mals with the black dogs being the most mellow.

Mine do well with 2- 3 exercise sessions a day in the back yard and a couple adventures per week and they have off switches. One of mine is downright lazy, if given the choice, and will cuddle on the couch with you for days on end. They don’t NEED to work 8 hours a day, every day.

[Dr_Doolittle]

You are smart and responsible

They are exquisite, elite dogs - intelligent, beautiful, intense - and NOT for “amateurs.”

IMHO, around 1% of the population deserves to own one.

[Mara]

I’ve known one Belgian Shepherd. Beautiful dog, and he was extremely laid back and easygoing.

[BrendaJane]

they might not need to work 8 hours a day, but they need and occupation every day.
I am a cat person. and having to feed then 3 times a day is annoying. Heck, having toeat 3 times a day is a drag!
they are a breed that needs a job.
Or they find their own entertainment!