Early in my dog owning life my pets were from breeders. I shopped didn’t adopt. They were in no particular order a GSD, a Pomeranian, and a Golden. Lovely dogs.
Later when I moved to “the country” I acquired a long list of ditch dogs over the past 20 years. I just can’t drive past a loose obviously abandoned dog. Especially when they’re dumped in my front yard. Of the 6+ dogs I’ve had every single mature dog was intact (all bitches) and heart worm positive. Aged 2-upwards of 8 years. Here in Florida at least there is a horrible lack of spaying and neutering and basic preventative care. I’m finally down to just 3 dogs. 2 elderly one bully rescue adopted pup who is 6. I would really love another well bred Golden.
But I also see the constant “shaming” of people for not adopting. And I have first hand seen the strangely over the top over care of obviously behaviorally and physically challenged rescues that would be better served a soft kind end.
Mmm-hmm. I agree. These are the rescue groups that let emotion overtake rationality. They fundraise thousands of dollars for surgery that might save a very injured dog. Meanwhile, those thousands of dollars could’ve spayed, neutered, fed, sheltered, and rehomed a dozen other highly adoptable dogs.
What kinds of purebreds are you seeing? I mean, there is “purebred”, and then there is well-bred purebred (e.g. selected for appropriate breed characteristics, titled/tested to prove those characteristics, and health clearances before breeding.)
I catch your drift, but how many average American pet owners actually know the difference? How many purebreds are actually well bred? To many, a pug is a pug is a pug. And when would-be owners are out there looking for one, the idea of “well-bred” never enters the equation (either because they don’t know, don’t believe, or don’t care).
There are a couple of prominent people in the sheltering world who are going against the grain by saying what you are saying, more or less: that we have sterilized out all of the good shelter dog genetics with the US’s (and particularly NE’s) aggressive spay/neuter policies.
The puppy Major came from some type rescue/shelter from a BYB situation from a questionable breeder according to folks on the GSD forum. Probably a temperament problem from poor breeding. The WH is a tough environment for a dog like that. Plus owners who travel a lot and leave the nervy dog with strangers to take care of. All around bad environment.
Some GSDs would have no problem at the WH provided they got plenty of consistent training and plenty of serious exercise. Others are totally unsuited as was Major. There’s a whole spectrum of temperaments in GSD from mild/soft to hard/aggressive.
Ok but I wasn’t talking about the average pet owner. You are the one who said “regarding hybrid vigor. As someone with a lot of experience with purebreds and mixed breeds, we see fewer health issues with the mutts.”
It’s not fair to lump all purebreds together when some breeders produce puppies from a pair of poor specimens with no titles and no health testing, let alone a pedigree of health tested dogs.
For example, my dogs come from 8+ generations of passing OFA hip scores. Breeders are bummed when they get “Good” instead of “Excellent” scores, even though they are both more than good enough for breeding (even a “Fair” is a pass). So, it would be pretty rare to find dysplasia in any of them, although it is possible. It would be shocking to find a dog with crippling dysplasia.
Whether the average pet owner understands that or not - what they hear from statements like yours is that “purebred dogs have more issues” - not that “crappy breeders produce crappy dogs.”
What the average pet buyer/owner/rescuer does not understand is “Purebred” does not necessarily mean “Well Bred”. You’re describing “well bred” because the important testing has been done for generations. Poorly bred dogs are from “Back Yard Breeders” who simply buy
a male and a female dog of a certain breed and mate them. Bingo, sell a bunch of puppies to
buyers lacking any knowledge of what they’re really getting. Those are the ‘purebreds’ which end up at rescues and shelters, not the well bred, registered and tested dogs.
Yes, I agree. My point is that it’s not necessarily proof of “hybrid vigor”.
We were lucky enough to get a puppy in July after we lost one of our beloved Pyrs. She came from a local breeder who required an initial application, 3 references who had to write emails on our behalf, a non-refundable $300 deposit, my husband friending her on FB and a second application that explained our lifestyle and what we’d like to do with the puppy to help match us with one. The contract stipulates we have her hips x-rayed and her eyes examined and we must let the breeder know the results.
She is an utter delight and has a lovely temperament and is beautiful to boot. I looked around at shelter animals, but I am not in the market for any kind of pit bull type dog, though I have known some pretty nice ones. I like fluffy dogs and wanted the chance to maybe pursue a dog activity (the Pyrenees we’ve had love working the sofa and their walks, which is fine by me but maybe doesn’t make them prime candidates for a more active dog sport).
We’ve had two cats (both very sweet) from humane societies and both wound up with long-term medical conditions that required medication and frequent vet visits (echo-cardiograms, blood panels, etc.). I bought a Thai cat for my 50th birthday (after a pretty long application AND personal phone call with the breeder–he flew in from LA) and at 5, he seems to have no health issues yet. I love dogs and cats of all sorts and mixed breeds just as much as purebreds. But I like knowing the person I got this dog from and the same for our Pyrs.
I used to dogsit for someone who raised and showed (and still does well into her 70s) Shelties (conformation and obedience). She loves her dogs and they get the best of everything and I knew personally that she took dogs back she had bred if the owners couldn’t keep them. She has always been very knowledgeable about bloodlines and breeding good dogs is a passion for her, it’s part of what makes her life meaningful.
Anyway, I’ve been very happy with all my animals, medical problems or not. There are many good, caring, conscientious people in both worlds and I would be just as happy to adopt an animal again if the right one came along.
We had a fenced yard but when hormones come calling sometimes that makes no difference. I do remember about 12 years ago when we had a young female, that we had males of all breeds and sizes suddenly show up at our farm.
It must have been her first heat ( she was soon to be spayed) and I have no idea where these dogs came from as we had a fairly remote farm with only 2 neighbors we could see. I had to lock her up in the stock trailer for her safety.
Once she was spayed we never saw another stray dog again. I just feel that if you don’t plan on breeding and especially if your dog isn’t breeding worthy why would you not spay/ neuter them?
Removing hormones for the convenience of humans isn’t always the best thing for the dog. Look at some of the research on neutered large breed dogs. They have much greater incidence of hip and elbow issues, bone cancers, cancer in general, obesity, and some behavioral issues can actually get worse. You don’t see humans removing their testicles or ovaries completely before or even after sexual maturity unless there’s a drastic reason to. If someone’s not responsible enough to make sure the animal does not breed, then they’d be better off considering an ovary sparing spay for females, or a vasectomy for males.
After owning nothing but purebred Basenjis for over 30 years, we adopted a mixed breed terrier puppy on New Years Day. His name is Neo as in “new”, New year, new puppy. Everyone assumes it’s because of The Matrix.
Anyway, we had considered getting another Basenji, our previous 4 lived to be 16, 17, 16, and 17, but had serious sticker shock when I reached out to breeders. Only 1 could be bothered to talk to me and sorry, I’m not paying $3k for a puppy unless he/she poops gold coins! For the record, the first two cost $175 back in the mid-80s and the last 2 cost $750 in early 2000s. I get that responsible breeders do a lot of genetic testing etc, but $3K, seriously?
His adoption fee was $600, includes his first shots, microchip and neuter at one of their vets. I’ll use my regular vet and they’ll give me $100 towards that. We got him from Tobies Small Dog Rescue in North Hollywood.
We’re both retired @Marla_100 so not all rescues are crazy that way.
I would get turned down then as I don’t give flea and tick meds in the winter. No need as it’s too cold in my area for them. Vet agrees with me.
I actually got turned down from a rescue as at the time I didn’t have a dog and no current canine vet only my horse vet. I had my lab for 15 years and took a break. Went to the local animal shelter and found a darling beagle mix.
I have long worked with the local rescues – and I support “reputable” breeders – and I acknowledge that so many rescues have ridiculous and arbitrary rules. I understand that many rescues have had bad experiences in the past, but a “fenced yard” is really more of an encouragement to neglect the dog by turning it loose in the yard rather than a sign that the owners will be responsible.
I had two GSDs in an apartment on the North Side of Chicago. Both had daily lengthy walks, and I did agility with the young one (the older one was in his teens and happy with the activity he had at that point).
Some great potential adopters also show dogs, and keep intact dogs. That also doesn’t bother me. It shouldn’t bother a rescue that isn’t militant.
The “cost” of rescue dogs doesn’t bother me either. Most of the rescues I have been involved with have had all necessary (immediately evident) vet care done prior to adoption, as well as spays/neuters. The adoption fees help keep the rescue going, and allow them to pay for these services.
In a perfect world, we would only have responsible rescues, and responsible breeders.
I have an intact dog, my male GSD. I intend to keep him that way for at least the next 3-4 years. Perhaps his entire life. I’ll wait and see. I am picking up a new foster dog this weekend and the rescue doesn’t care that Andy is intact because I have a track record of NEVER having an oops litter.
I adopted my Dachshund/Poodle mix as a puppy from a rescue in Montana while my Aussie was intact. She ended up being spayed at 7 years old due to pyometra. The rescue was more interested in finding out if I had allowed an oops litter out of her. I hadn’t because I am responsible and just didn’t let it happen. The puppy was spayed at 7 months, after her first heat because she was such a trollop that she talked my neutered Toy poodle into tying.
There are really, really good breeders out there. And really, really good rescues. The bottom line is to support the good ones with your dollars (even if you have to wait for the right fit). Train and enjoy your companion.
Sheilah
Yes. I agree that once they are fully mature they should probably be altered unless you intend to breed. Especial dogs owned in pet homes (versus competition homes.)
I was surprised and gratified when a rescue I had contacted informed me that, depending upon other factors, a fenced yard was not a requirement to adopt from them.
We have adopted 2 dogs from this rescue thus far, both of which were treated for HW, spayed, vaccinated, and chipped before placement.
Both have been as described (long-distance adoption, with a local volunteer who did a home visit before the 1st dog), and we couldn’t be happier.
Current dog, Daisy, has a few quirks, but nothing that can’t be lived with, and she is perfect outside with horses and poultry, and dependable off leash.
I never said that importing was “bad” or that breeders didn’t do it.
Maybe reread my reply as it pertains to the post I was responding to.
As for importing just to keep bloodlines from bottlenecking, its not really necessary to do so here in the States.
There are plenty of quality lines to go to without having to import.
Besides, it’s much easier to just import frozen semen if looking to add in outside/import lines.
I wish the ticks that were finding my barn cat knew that they are supposed to not be around in the winter. We treat all winter or else this cat ends up with ticks.
