Not necessarily. You’re more likely to encounter dogs with behavioral issues, because the original owners were not equipped with the skills/knowledge/lifestyle to raise and train that dog.
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I have never met a breeder who called dogs that weren’t show quality “waste.” Your post reads extremely oddly to me, as if breeders’ sole aim is to produce breeding dogs for the show ring. My friend just got a dog from a breeder which she intends to use for agility and obedience. She has rescued dogs before but went to a breeder because she 1. likes the breed 2. knows the dog is less likely to have health issues than a random dog, based on knowing the parents and previous offspring 3. the dog has been bred for a good temperament and has not had the stresses of an unsuitable owner or shelter. Part of her contract is spaying and not breeding the dog, but this dog is hardly a “loss” for either my friend or the breeder.
There are certainly shady breeders (not just puppy mill or backyard types) who overbreed horses and dogs, or those with an unrealistic view of the demand for a breed, I agree. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t good, conscientious ones out there who might be actually trying to preserve traits they see aren’t emphasized enough.
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“My breed” is the GSD – and I would be happy to pay 3k+ for a puppy to contribute to good breeders weeding out the myriad health issues that plague the breed. I lost both of my last GSDs to DM – one from a breeder, one from a rescue. I’d like to ensure against that heartache with the next one, although I am well aware that we can never ever be certain with these things. I’d like to encourage breeders that do things the right way.
I also do rescue, and have had a number of little terrier mixes. They have been cute, comical, and have had a number of issues that I wouldn’t foist off on a family, but I don’t have kids. The last pair lived to be roughly 16-ish. My next “purchased” dog will be a well-screened GSD puppy, but I’m still happy to be a refuge for little terrierists that wind up in the wrong homes.
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Have you met any breeders familiar with the concept of analogy? Perhaps they can explain it to you.
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I’m a professional writer and as well as the term “analogy” I’m also familiar with denotative and connotative meaning of certain words, and the word “waste” has a very strong negative connotation in regards to a living creature and thus should be used judiciously. I don’t think most breeders (even very casual ones) would view their operations as “manufacturing.”
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I don’t think anyone that truly loves GSD’s would think that 3k for a health and behaviorally -screened puppy is unreasonable.
If you are all about rescue, I get that too. I’ll take the little tough ones from my local rescue, and I have learned a ton from them.
Once again, I believe in reputable breeders, and reputable rescues.
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May I suggest you avoid the play “Book of Mormon.” Although the concept in play there is metaphor, I suspect you’ll be offended.
Not all reputable breeders charge a lot for rehomes. I’ve gotten three dogs from one of my breeders. One was a breeder return at 3 years old and the breeder charged me about $200 to help cover the vet costs she’d put into him before sending him to me. One was deemed “pet quality” at 8 weeks and cost me $500 ($2000 until I spayed her and then the difference was refunded) and the last who cost me $2000 with the promise that I’d do my best to show her (she was an older puppy and obviously structurally show quality when I got her). She’s now most of the way to her Bronze Grand Championship, every point put on her by me, an amateur handler. The fourth dog, also a “show quality” pup, cost me $2000 with a contract to show him OR fix him if he proves to not be a strong show candidate.
I’m also involved in our breed rescue and their prices are roughly $200 for a young, healthy dog. Older or special needs dogs mostly go out on permanent fosters (rescue pays the vet bills) or are placed with minimum fees.
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I think @Scribbler didn’t mean for the “charge a lot” to be associated with the rehoming.
Sounds like you’ve encountered good breeders.
Congrats on your achievements in the show ring and good for you being involved in breed rescue. May I ask for which breed?
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Belgian shepherds of all 4 types (groenendael, tervuren, malinois, & laeknois, although I have yet to see a laeknois come through any of our rescues).
Mainly I wanted to point out that not all good breeders charge thousands for pet quality dogs. My $500 pup had crooked ears (which later straightened right out) but is more than a decade old and only just now starting to slow down. That “pet” pup is the most trainable animal I’ve ever owned, has gotten multiple performance titles, and managed to win a UKC Best of Specialty, Altered as a veteran and as her 2nd show ever. All for less than a month’s board without an indoor in my area.
It’s not really Reputable Breeder vs Rescue in my breeds, it’s Reputable Breeder AND Rescue. It’s breeders and fanciers who sit on the rescue boards, it’s people like me (fanciers who don’t breed) who are driving rescue dogs all over the country and fostering, and it’s a network of people who love the breed who try to find home for both the rescues and the dogs coming back to the breeders as returns for whatever reason.
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My trainer breeds Great Pyrenees and also shows them. (Right now she owns the #1 in UKC and has bred #2 dog). She would love to keep all the puppies she has bred but told me she’d rather have each dog have a family where it has its own person or family who thinks it’s special. This is rather than her keeping it and it being one of many special dogs to her, if that makes sense. She did take back one of her puppies when the owner had a family situation and couldn’t keep it. It just recently went to someone who will be perfect for him.
From what I hear from her, it’s very expensive to breed good quality dogs. She loves the breed and wants to preserve the dog as it was originally, and not change its form or function. There’s seven in her small house right now; lots of juggling keeping the males and females apart, rotating groups inside and outside.
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No one ever implied that breeding purebred dogs was a money making proposition. I guess I’m not understanding why this bothers you. In order for a breeder to make money on breeding they have to NOT be doing something that good breeders do, OR they have to charge even more than the outrageous prices you already find offensive.
If a breeder is making a profit, they are likely not putting titles on their dogs. That is by far the most expensive part of breeding. Health testing in and of itself isn’t incredibly expensive - most breeds could probably cover the prices of testing both parents for less than the price of one puppy (I believe I’ve spent less than $1K on health testing for my stud dog - which includes OFA elbows, hips, patellas and eyes, as well as DNA on file.) I could add additional testing (heart and thyroid) if I wanted, but it would still be less than the price of a single puppy ($1500-2000).
Putting titles on a dog is time consuming, and just like showing horses, each individual entry isn’t incredibly expensive, but over time, plus the additional costs like gas, hotels, etc. - it adds up. A good dog will finish more quickly, but it isn’t really ever cheap. Is it necessary? Not entirely, if the goal is to produce only pet puppies. And I could get behind that for certain kinds of dogs. But it’s not really what a breed club or breed fancier is after.
And again - while you may hear people say the phrase “to improve the breed” - that’s not what people are trying to do. The breed is established. It does not need improvement, other than perhaps trying to eliminate congenital issues - which is evolving all the time with advances in DNA/gene identification.
This makes no sense, unless you are missing the entire point of breeding, which you seem to be. There are people who want a well-bred dog because it is a good representation of its breed and type. It has predictable attributes including temperament, size, exercise needs, life-span, as well as often has particular skills like hunting, swimming, tracking, racing, or just being an affable companion. The majority of purebred dogs do not go into competition homes, but to people who are seeking a specific, predictable type of dog.
If you want an upland game hunting companion, you wouldn’t choose one of @AltersAreUs Belgian shepherds, no matter how well bred they are. You wouldn’t choose a Boston Terrier, or a GSD. You would look for a dog specifically bred over centuries for that job. My dogs are Brittanys - an upland game hunting breed. More than half the people involved in my breed’s national club are looking more for a hunting companion than a show dog. They also make great pets, for families who can properly exercise them - so there is no waste. Some might be better than others for prospects of show or field — but sometimes that is just personality.
I’m getting a puppy this weekend - the litter is so consistent that the breeder is bringing them across the country to have 4 of the top breeders in the US evaluate them to identify the top 3 picks. Personally I think it won’t matter, and it will be down to which personality resonates with the different prospective owners.
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Well-said. Show breeders carefully select sires that can help enhance their bitch’s positive breed attributes and reduce reinforcement of any negative attributes. Puppy mill breeders and even most casual backyard breeders have no concept or even concern about breed standards or genetic health issues or often even temperament issues, nor are they heavily concerned about the environment their puppy is going into. THEY are the ones that are in it for the money - not the show breeders who spend THOUSANDS of dollars having their stock evaluated by multiple judges who know the breed standard, having the dogs health/DNA tested, and also spend TONS of time studying/evaluating other specimens of their chosen breed, picking brains of other breeders, researching bloodlines, etc., etc.
Basically, if you want a French Bulldog because you like the traits for which it is known, it makes far more sense to get one from a breeder who at least tries to adhere to the breed standard - and who does health/genetic testing on her breeding stock - as opposed to someone who is breeding a (perhaps) pet store/puppy mill Frenchie bitch to another pet store/puppy mill Frenchie. Just because they are both registered, it may not mean either one is worthy of being bred.
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I meant to add a real-life example to my post above.
A boarder used to bring her Gordon Setter to the barn where I worked some years back. He was generally recognizable as a Gordon Setter by coat, color, general body shape, but he was not in any way a GOOD quality representative of the breed. Lo and behold, new boarders arrived and they also had a Gordon Setter. They brought him to the barn one day and the difference between the two was like night and day. The new GS was spectacular, with excellent conformation, beautiful type and expression, gorgeous coat, and excellent movement. The owners of the first GS were thunderstruck - they could not believe how gorgeous the other dog was. The difference? Their dog was the product of a backyard breeder while the new dog was the product of a show breeder. The gorgeous GS was also functional - in addition to his AKC conformation championship, he had obedience and hunting titles.
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The problem is that so many people don’t care if it’s a great specimen. They think a Frenchie is a Frenchie is a Frenchie…and want one because they’re cute. Average Joe is going to look for a cheap one, because he can’t afford (or doesn’t want to spend) $2500-3000 on a puppy from a reputable breeder. This props up the backyard breeders indefinitely.
I don’t think many people here have an argument against high-quality reputable breeders. The real problem is uneducated demand…which leads to irresponsible supply. How do we change that?
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A point not to be overlooked is also that these pet store or BYB dogs are ALSO selling for well over $1000 usually, often $1500 - $6000 for popular ones like Frenchies and every damn -doodle they can think of. Right now in my area the Bernie-doodle is rising to fame 
A woman/couple local to me breeds Australian Shepherds, and is really churning them out. Has a FB page and looks all “professional” and talks about all the vet care and special kibble and puppy equipment that comes with these $2400 puppies but, oddly enough, has never publicly posted about any health screenings that have been done on the breeders… I went there to buy some chicks a few years ago when I was first getting into “my breed” and was bitten by a dog for the first time in my life. One of their breeders chased me across the lawn and grabbed my leg like he meant it, as I was returning to my car with my chicks. Left marks, too.
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There are people that buy these puppies ON CREDIT even 
That’s OK, I don’t understand why you are so bothered that I don’t want to pay what I think is an outrageous price or that I have a different opinion regarding dog breeding in general. When others have defended what I think is outrageous pricing, I have countered with my perspective and experience. Jeez Louise! You’d think I called your (the collective your not you personally) moms dirty names. We would be better able to have a discussion if you would stop projecting your apparent offense onto me.
Repeat explanation/justification/rationale for why it’s expensive to breed dogs. I don’t disagree with any of this, but it still doesn’t convince me to part with thousands of dollars for a puppy. Others are happy to pay and I’m not concerned about what they do with their money. How I choose to spend my money is nobody else’s business. It’s not like I’m saying anyone should sell me a puppy for less because I want it, I’m just not buying. Why is this so provocative? That’s a strictly rhetorical question unless you want to get into a discussion of the concept of “right fighting.”
Clearly it makes no sense to people unfamiliar with the use of analogies or statistical process control in manufacturing so it’s not the best communication mechanism for this crowd but go ahead and try to insult me if it makes you feel better about it. You might also feel better if you’d untwist your knickers about the word “waste” which was used both in the context of the unsuccessful analogy and in quotes.
More motherhood and apple pie about the qualities of various breeds and the work that goes into producing quality puppies for show, field, pet etc. Also more angst about “waste.” Not unlike a dog with a bone! That’s intended as a little canine humor!
Speaking of which, the little terrorist is having a great time with toys the Basenjis spurned for years, definitely a different guy. Can’t wait to do more with him.
Enjoy your puppy!
This!
And unfortunately I don’t have a solution. We can educate all we want, but the reality is that a lot of people just aren’t going to shell out for a companion. Many will turn to rescue. But there will always be people who want a puppy, or who just want the cheaper version.
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This is exactly the problem that I think the AKC was trying to address with the concept of limited registration. If a high-quality reputable breeder sold a puppy with limited registration, that dog’s offspring would not be eligible for AKC registration.
Average Joe may not be educated on breed standards, but is aware of the registration “seal of approval.”
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