Rescue organizations keep puppy mills in business--open vent/rant

[Sswor]

Who cares if people want crossbreed dogs? Who made it a law that people are only allowed to want something some private organization deemed breedable? That’s dumb. People like what they like and who is anyone to tell them what they like is wrong?

[QUOTE=Darkwave;8216043]

For my part, I think there’s a balancing of two concerns here. The human’s “right” to adopt a pet versus the animal’s “right” to a lifelong happy home. And the rescues are erring on the side of protecting the animals, even if that means that some potentially awesome owners are excluded. And honestly, I prefer that they err on that side.[/QUOTE]

And that’s why there will always be puppymills and BYBs. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make people not want a puppy.

Think of how many more dogs could be pulled out from bad situations if not for philosophies such as yours.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8216032]
Take some Pepto.
You won’t change human nature
and you don’t get to dictate their lives.

Some people are useless as pet owners.
You want to legislate them out of ownership?[/QUOTE]

I didn’t suggest legislating or dictating anything.

But I’m hardly moved because someone wants a certain type of puppy NOW because they have 10 days off work. That type of impatience makes me wonder what will happen when there is a real inconvenience in the next 14 years of life with a dog.

Just because the OP claims to be a great owner doesn’t negate the fact that there are tons of terrible owners out there…and they (and the bad breeders that produced the poor animals) are the reason rescues have become so choosy.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Darkwave;8216043]
And, assuming that you could “force” someone to keep a pet they wanted to get rid of, I can’t imagine that pet would have good quality of life. If the owner really is willing to dump the pet as soon as it hits the “no longer cute” or “inconvenient” stage, then it’s probably in the best interests of that animal to go to the shelter, rather than stay and be neglected.[/QUOTE]

Of course. Shelters are important and serve a real purpose.

So do breeders - especially the ones that will take the dog back when the people no longer find it cute. Supporting a breeder that won’t only perpetuates the system and overfill shelters that otherwise might be able to help animals.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=S1969;8216055]
I didn’t suggest legislating or dictating anything.

But I’m hardly moved because someone wants a certain type of puppy NOW because they have 10 days off work. That type of impatience makes me wonder what will happen when there is a real inconvenience in the next 14 years of life with a dog.

Just because the OP claims to be a great owner doesn’t negate the fact that there are tons of terrible owners out there…and they (and the bad breeders that produced the poor animals) are the reason rescues have become so choosy.[/QUOTE]

you just want to punish the OP for things she has not done, because you don’t like the way she goes about things.

Same thing, different wrapper.

You don’t want her to have instant gratification, just because.

Moral superiority complex, that’s all.

She is entitled to want what she wants. She isn’t breaking any laws.

There has been too much of that going around, because somebody, somewhere sucks at pet ownership, all the rest of us have to clothe in sacks and strew ashes upon our heads.

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=Perfect10;8215974]

As many have said before, people return puppies when they stop being cute. So the rescue gets an unsocialized, untrained adolescent dog .[/QUOTE]

This is exactly why I don’t want a rescue and was not thrilled when my father got one. I don’t need someone else’s screwed up dog. Depending on the breed, this is especially true. Last thing I want is a JRT with baggage. I love them, but they are crazy enough on a good day. We cringed at some of the dogs my dad looked at - 3 yro male JRT, not yet fixed. :eek: You know he had issues.

Same goes for cats, my cat of choice is a Siamese. They aren’t always easy to live with. If someone dumps one on a rescue, it probably has issues. I don’t want to deal with someone else’s problem child. I also don’t need some busybody volunteer with a God complex passing judgment on me. “Reputable” breeders seem the have the same God complex as rescues anymore.

For those of you criticizing the OP’s desire for instant gratification, the best thing for my parents when the cat died, was almost immediately getting them another one. When the dog died, Dad waited, looking for “the perfect dog;” it was heart-breaking. He wasn’t looking for the perfect dog, he was looking for a reincarnation of the one that died. In hindsight, I wish I had been able to drop off a small terrier on his doorstep within 30 days of the old dog dying.

[Countrywood]

yes, people have shallow desires for what they “like” (Tiny dogs! pushed in faces! )Who cares about fads or what people like with inanimate objects, toys or iphones etc. Throw them out when you want ( or recycle lol)

But the fulfillment of shallow human desires at the expense of animal suffering? Does not equate . How freaking hard is it for people to not be so shallow and selfish when it comes to animals.

I suppose we cant’ make people not “want a puppy” Too bad we also can’t make them keep and care for said puppy till the end of its life , barring extreme circumstance.

[Countrywood]

IF breeding was controlled, people could buy puppies no problem because ALL breeders would be (forced) to be responsible…such as limit the number of litters to keep pace with demand, provide good care for the breeding animals etc.

Of course there would be a criminal and grey market area…which would make puppy mill operations illegal and able to be easily shut down. Legislation about pet breeding would go a long way to solving the problem.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8216087]
IF breeding was controlled, people could buy puppies no problem because ALL breeders would be (forced) to be responsible…such as limit the number of litters to keep pace with demand, provide good care for the breeding animals etc.

Of course there would be a criminal and grey market area…which would make puppy mill operations illegal and able to be easily shut down. Legislation about pet breeding would go a long way to solving the problem.[/QUOTE]

Who gets to say who qualifies to breed?

You?
PETA?
the HSUS?!

[Countrywood]

Input from a cross section of the most respected and recognized aspects of dogs involving breed standards and humane treatment as well as dealing with pet owners…input from AKC combined with a cross section of shelter personal, animal control law enforcement, animal welfare advocates and reputable breeders . (that would be my dream team ). .

[Countrywood]

I think developing well selected and humanely treated less expensive puppies available to people should be a goal of limiting “bad” breeding and over breeding.

Whether pure bred or part bred or mutt, people should be able to buy puppies (imo) at reasonable prices, with some minimal qualifying done of those buying without crazy standards impossible to fulfill. Which could be accomplished at same time as outlawing puppy mills and not allowing unlimited byb .

[Perfect10]

[QUOTE=Sswor;8216029]
Obviously not. If your priorities are truly as you claim, your jaded attitude combined with the preconceived notions that you are full of, is doing your organization a huge disservice. Perhaps it’s time for a new hobby since you’re so burnt out. Best regards.[/QUOTE]

OP, I’m not attacking you. I’m talking about rescue as a whole.

Work in rescue for a month. People return dogs when they aren’t cute. It’s a fact. People are stupid. It doesn’t take working in rescue to know that. People make rash decisions when they’re grieving. It isn’t just limited to animals. But you know that. You’re just trying to justify that you got a puppy from a BYB. I’m glad your puppy is what you want and I’m sure you will take excellent care of it. But many people don’t, and that’s my point.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8216059]
you just want to punish the OP for things she has not done, because you don’t like the way she goes about things.

Same thing, different wrapper.

You don’t want her to have instant gratification, just because.

Moral superiority complex, that’s all.

She is entitled to want what she wants. She isn’t breaking any laws.

There has been too much of that going around, because somebody, somewhere sucks at pet ownership, all the rest of us have to clothe in sacks and strew ashes upon our heads.[/QUOTE]

No, I was actually supportive of the OP until she supported a backyard breeder to get her quick puppy fix, and then congratulated herself for being a “one person rescue.”

It’s not illegal to be a backyard breeder or buy from one. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect criticism. I don’t support impulse buying of animals, but bad breeders and puppy mills love it.

If that’s a moral superiority complex, I’ll gladly own it.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Sswor;8216053]
Who cares if people want crossbreed dogs? Who made it a law that people are only allowed to want something some private organization deemed breedable? That’s dumb. People like what they like and who is anyone to tell them what they like is wrong?

And that’s why there will always be puppymills and BYBs. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make people not want a puppy.

Think of how many more dogs could be pulled out from bad situations if not for philosophies such as yours.[/QUOTE]

I’m guessing it’s your attitude that made you a bad risk for a rescue, not your situation. You really have a bee in your bonnet, don’t you? Do what you want, but buying from puppy mills and backyard breeders just perpetuates the problem of badly bred, unwanted dogs. Three to 4 million animals are killed every year due to lack of homes. Just think about that for a minute or two. Rescues that try to place animals in the best homes possible are only trying to keep the animals they’ve placed from being added to the death statistics.

There are some things rescues can do to help with retention. One is to require a vet visit within the first couple of weeks of adoption. There are statistics that show a vet visit within the first 6 months of adoption leads to lower return rates. Smart rescues give a partial refund of the adoption fee ($25 or so) upon verification of a vet visit. Same for a spay contract for a young puppy.

The other is an after adoption triage team. When rescues assign a volunteer to stay in contact with an adopter, call within the first week, give the adopter their email address and phone number so they can assist if any problems crop up, the return rates goes even lower.

Unfortunately, too many rescues are run like social clubs instead of a business; no one in authority has any idea of PR, customer service or sound business practices and many times ethics. Also unfortunately, the bad rescues give all rescues a bad name.

[GotSpots]

[QUOTE=french fry;8214382]
It looks like you didn’t read the rest of my post, where I explained that to rescues “work outside the home but come home for lunch” is different than “puppy left alone 8+ hours a day.”[/QUOTE] Not necessarily. A rescue in NoVa (PetConnect) that we tried to adopt from refused to consider us for an adult dog because we both worked outside the house, even though we are longtime dog owners, have a midday dog walker, a fenced yard, great references from our vet of more than 10 years, and a detailed plan to ensure our dog gets enough exercise and socialization. Their exact words were “we don’t have any dogs suitable for your lifestyle.” Luckily, another area rescue (Lost Dog) saw past our “limitations” and we now have a wonderful adult terrier/schnauzer/Heinz 57. But jeepers, the other place left a bad taste in my mouth.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=GotSpots;8216160]
Not necessarily. A rescue in NoVa (PetConnect) that we tried to adopt from refused to consider us for an adult dog because we both worked outside the house, even though we are longtime dog owners, have a midday dog walker, a fenced yard, great references from our vet of more than 10 years, and a detailed plan to ensure our dog gets enough exercise and socialization. Their exact words were “we don’t have any dogs suitable for your lifestyle.” Luckily, another area rescue (Lost Dog) saw past our “limitations” and we now have a wonderful adult terrier/schnauzer/Heinz 57. But jeepers, the other place left a bad taste in my mouth.[/QUOTE]

I ran into that with a collie rescue. I was turned down because too much of the floor area in my house was a wood floor. I adopted a collie from the next rescue I called. Like I said above, some rescues are run like a social club with bunch of whacko drama queens in charge. Just move on to the next one.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=S1969;8216145]
No, I was actually supportive of the OP until she supported a backyard breeder to get her quick puppy fix, and then congratulated herself for being a “one person rescue.”

It’s not illegal to be a backyard breeder or buy from one. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect criticism. I don’t support impulse buying of animals, but bad breeders and puppy mills love it.

If that’s a moral superiority complex, I’ll gladly own it.[/QUOTE]

well, it’s not like she is a novice, jumping on the cute pup in the window.

She already went through the channels you approve of. How long do you think she needs to wait?
A month, two?
A year?

[FalseImpression]

I know several rescues in Canada and have never heard of such narrow minded decisions!

Two rescues I do know even adopt out to farms!! and one does place cats with horse farms!! imagine!

I adopted a dog from one of them about 10 years ago… and I am still in touch with the rescue. They just checked that I did have a fenced yard and that I would not leave my dog outside when away from home. I still worked outside the home at the time, but part-time and I could take my dog with me but that was not a requirement at all.
Never heard of requirements for flooring, etc. and my dog hates dog beds! Bought some that he never used so gave them away! He was only allowed on one bed but now, it’s too difficult for him to jump up…

I wish you luck!

[supaflyskye]

Honestly, my next puppy will be from a reputable breeder, because I want a rare (in the USA) breed. However, if I found a puppy I wanted on craigslist, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it. I feel for you OP.
Jump on me if you will, but backyard breeders will always breed, and by buying one of those backyard bred puppies I can at least guarantee it will not end up in a bad place. Similar to buying a foal on CL from the breeder, which I have never seen COTH object to.
ETA: For the record, I consider myself an excellent dog owner, my dog gets the best of everything: the best food, regular vet appointments (and now that she’s a bit older [4] I’m about to spring for a $$cardiologist$$ due to a heart murmur she’s had since she was a puppy), a big backyard, regular walks, and TONS of love, literally everything she could possibly want. Oh, and I got her for free from a Walmart parking lot on a total impulse. =)

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8216133]
I think developing well selected and humanely treated less expensive puppies available to people should be a goal of limiting “bad” breeding and over breeding.

Whether pure bred or part bred or mutt, people should be able to buy puppies (imo) at reasonable prices, with some minimal qualifying done of those buying without crazy standards impossible to fulfill. Which could be accomplished at same time as outlawing puppy mills and not allowing unlimited byb .[/QUOTE]

And what do you consider reasonable? If you’re doing the health testing, using the best male to pair with your girl, it is incredibly easy to spend 6k before the litter is even born. This is not taking into consideration any of the monies invested in training and showing a bitch to show she’s a good example of the breed. This is also without placing a value on the countless hours spent puppy rearing. When folks explain that it’s rare to see a profit when breeding health tested and titled dogs it’s true.

http://rufflyspeaking.net/why-do-puppies-cost-so-much/

http://www.bmdinfo.org/newpages/Puppy_Costs.php

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8216196]
well, it’s not like she is a novice, jumping on the cute pup in the window.

She already went through the channels you approve of. How long do you think she needs to wait?
A month, two?
A year?[/QUOTE]

Actually, that’s a great question. How many days did the OP actually devote to her search before getting frustrated and rejected multiple times? I thought it sounded like less than 2 weeks, but maybe I missed something. As far as I could tell, she did not seek out a breeder of purpose bred/crossbred pups for agility, which would have seemed to be a good start.

And then she came to this board to rant about it.