I went with the triple crown RB gold. It’s 13.5%
He’s on 1 scoop of elevate vitamin e and it made some difference, not a major one.
Currently on 1 scoop of evelate vitamin e. Don’t have the IU on my at the moment, but will look up. He tends to be a spooky horse and oddly enough magnesium made him act really freaking goofy so i took him off of it. I buy bulk magnesium oxide for my other horse so this was what I tried. Alfalfa does the same for him. But he’s on a scoop of via calm and the magnesium in that doesn’t effect him so who knows lol
Did you choose it for the elimination of soy? If not, what was the reason?
You may need a water-soluble form for a bit. You could test, or try a bottle of Emcelle (the cheapest w-s form, search for anyone selling it for $99) and see if anything changes
It really sounds like you’re trying your best for the horse! I hope you do get it sorted out, and he’s lucky to have you!
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Yes, he does seem better without soy. Less spooky over all. Also my vet wanted him on a lower protein since he’s young and not doing a whole lot (never questioned vet, but someone told me high protein in young horses can cause OCDs so I’m assuming that’s the reason). The vet made this comment when he was on a regular grain. I wonder if 13.5% at a low feeding rate (1.5 lbs per day split in two feeds) is just not enough protein. I don’t know the symptoms of low protein, but these resistance changes do coincide roughly around when he went off the tribute and onto purina grain with 14% (was getting roughly 4 lbs daily if I remember correctly).
I do remember now right before the NPA got worse he got really bad resistance and wouldn’t even trot period. Like couldn’t spin and go. Then he finally went lame. Put shoes on with wedge, went sound, and then resistance went back to normal (only first trotting off) and has stayed the same since. I really wonder if this is feet related.
Thank you for your kind words @Posting_Trot
I am trying so hard to help him be the best he can be. He is so bright and talented and truly wants to be a good boy. I just know something is causing this 
Will do, please do the same! My vet has assured me that she has several pssm2 horses that are competing at the higher levels successfully so I’m not stressing about this being a game changer just yet. I’m just in the stages of playing around with her diet and management to see what works. I also read a lot of @IPEsq’s old threads (who was also very helpful to me when I started posting about this) and learned a lot from those. I recently started her on re-leve from KER which I guess is supposed to be a feed that’s designed for pssm horses. I just can’t tell you if it’s making a difference because she also nearly amputated one of her heel bulbs… 
But once we’re over this I will let you know!
Any difficulty with hind feet for the farrier?
Or pulling back or nervous in cross ties?
Does the canter in one direction seem stilted? Or?
Lead changes issues? Or?
Have you had the neck X-rayed to check for cervical malformation? Or?
Nope to all of the above!
There’s literally no other symptoms with this horse other than the first trot resistance. This horse is very correct in everything else. He tracks great, doesn’t lean, or get heavy in the bridle.
For a little while he was having difficulty turning left (which was the NPA foot). It’s gotten a lot better through better use of outside aids. Not sure how much of it was trained out of him though because he’s compliant, or because he’s learned to cope with the pain and can turn easier ???
My gut is still saying NPA is the cause, especially with how much it can change the posture or ulcers. Just so bizarre that it’s only when he starts. I actually have a trainer coming tomorrow that specializes in bio mechanics. I am curious what her thoughts will be. I’ll give everyone an update tomorrow. Might be a big piece of the puzzle?
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this is why I automatically assume a vet doesn’t know enough about nutrition, until the prove that they do
The protein-DOD link was disproven a long time ago, starting with the guy who declared it was a problem to begin with, not long after.
A horse needs the protein he needs. The difference between 1lb of 30% and 13.5% protein is 72.91gm. In the context of an average 1100lb horse in moderate work needing minimally 700gm, you can see how relatively insignificant that is
“enough” protein entirely depends on the forage.
4lb of 14% is 254gm protein. If you were feeding 1.5lb of a 30% balancer, that’s 204gm.
So going from 204gm protein there, to 88.53gm protein is a loss of 115gm and that could definitely be significant enough
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@JB well, glad I shared that info - wow! I think he’s better on no soy or very low anyways. Am I better off changing his grain entirely or would adding a supplement be ok instead? Didn’t realize I was missing such a big gap in his feeding. Makes me question what else he could possibly be missing.
Well, glad I shared that info - wow! I think he’s better on no soy or very low anyways. Am I better off changing his grain entirely or would adding a supplement be ok instead? Didn’t realize I was missing such a big gap in his feeding. Makes me question what else he could possibly be missing?
I’m in the south so my hay is too inconsistent to test unfortunately.
Hmmm…
What about carrot stretches?
Same on both sides? Or?
Tighter bending right than left, but not a HUGE difference. This does support the theory of tight left shoulder/neck with NPA foot though!
When he feels stiff riding, it’s both ways and I’m not entirely sure I can call it all left front. It just feels so generalized, but definitely up front for sure. Vet said he looks like he’s going different speeds up front compared to behind, but not lame.
I’m pretty sure one scoop of elavate is 5,000 IU when I looked into using it. I decided to go with natural e gelcaps instead because reading the elavate ingredients it was fairly high in sugar & was going to be feeding 10,000 IU. My guy had a long term front right lameness that we had a lot of trouble diagnosing. We started with the foot and ended up finding some muscle issues in his bicep. He also just seemed all over sore, so I asked if it could be something else & although we did not test him we decided to try the vitamin e to see if he might be slightly PSSM. It definitely has helped him. In the past his muscles just always felt “tense” when you rubbed anywhere. Now he is much softer/relaxed feeling.
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Interesting. I’ll look into a different vitamin e! Thanks!!
Looks like I was wrong, 1 scoop is 1,000 units, but the second ingredient is dextrose…
Something interesting happened when I rode him tonight. I stretched his legs/shoulder after tacking up before I mounted. When I went to ask for the trot I literally draped my leg around him and the second I felt him suck back the slightest, I tapped with the dressage whip and did not add any extra leg. He trotted right off and I gave big praises. He trotted about 6 stiff and inverted steps, tried to suck back and walk like he was uncomfortable, but I redirected him to stretch over his back and he trotted off nice and loose and wasn’t stiff again.
Wondering if maybe this could potentially be a weakness thing that is manifesting itself in a weird way. Perhaps the first steps aren’t really stiff as much as just uncomfortable until he lifts his back and uses himself. Similarly on the lunge, until he places himself in good carriage. Going to see what I have tomorrow and if that same approach works. I have the biomechanics trainer out so will update again with her thoughts as well!
Well the good news about the Gold Balancer is it has some of the right aminos in it even though lower % protein. My current guy can’t tolerate soy meal, and I suspect he may also have a bit of these metabolic / muscle issue tendencies, and this has been a good feed for him. Last guy also didn’t do well on soy meal so the MFM pellet is out. The Gold balancer hadn’t come out yet when he passed, and though I did supplement aminos, the research wasn’t out yet on some of these that aren’t the main 3. Read up on Dr Valberg’s / KER’s MFM pellet for info, but like I said you can’t feed that particular product and avoid soy. Some of the other whey options out there are not palatable. BTDT.
What you describe from your last ride I think is useful info but does not mean it’s behavioral still. Sounds like a horse I was helping this past year due to my familiarity with this behavior. One thing for him that was major was saddle fit. We tried a ton of them till he picked one. And sometimes one ride in a saddle would be great, but it could not be repeated. I think he was just temporarily relieved by something different, but it wasn’t the one. And he also had raging ulcers that needed treatment. And some hind end wonkiness. The stretching after saddling was something that helped this particular horse.
If you can catch it early, whatever the discomfort, then there will be some sticky behavior to work through. No doubt. Without a lameness it can be hard to judge at any given moment whether you are on the right path or not. One way to judge is if the go forward cue continues to work, or if he figures out a new way to shut down.
It’s incredibly frustrating and I 100% feel your pain. When these babies learn they can really say no because it’s important enough to them to say no (they would rather fight than comply), it can become an ingrained behavior so quickly. Trust your gut and get to the bottom of the reason, and advocate for the horse and hopefully you can get to the other side of it. Now the more they earn themselves time off by ripping off a heel bulb or fracturing a splint or straining something or whatever, the more you have to start and restart, and that doesn’t help at all unfortunately!
I would get cervical xrays done to rule out cervical abnormalities. Apparently common in Warmbloods and not often found until 5 years old +. Especially when symptoms are mild.
