What you are saying, RoyParker, Is that if we do a head count, and there are more satisfied people then not, then everything that Jill Burnell has done wrong to everyone else is justified? Just because there are X amount of people who did not have a problem with JB makes it ok that she ripped off X amount of people and owes them money?! RoyParker, are you saying the good dealings just even out all the bad dealings? If JB is about 50/50 then she is doing ok, and she shouldn’t have to worry about paying people that she owes money to? RoyParker, You need a bigger shovel…you need a backhoe. Whomever you are RoyParker, you make no sense, and I would never want to do business with a person like you, with a mindset like you. You think the same way that JB thinks.
[QUOTE=JWB;6374823]
She used to post till she had to start using an alter. Since no one really knows who you are (has anyone jumped in who knows you personally?) why should anyone believe a word you say? Please, if you’ve had such great dealings with her, provide the USEF #s of the horses you’ve had registered under your name that you bred from her stallions, or show results, or something to verify your identity… Cause right now, you’re either JB or a convicted horse abuser. Either way, no credibility.
The more people post about her, the more other people will come to realize how dangerous dealing with her is. Once upon a time I thought about using her stallions for a marketable hunter foal, but then I read up and realized what a nightmare that would probably be.[/QUOTE]
I have a hard time believing that Jill does not care, and for SURE she keeps up on all the ‘crap’. :lol: She is always needing new targets, Oops, I meant conversation topics for her ever so well thought out, composed and proofread :dead: blog.
Seems that once she was put on moderated status for the BS she pulled with all the alters to trash the competition, She stopped posting as much (as herself ;)
).
EM, thanks for coming to the defense of small, mosquito sized breeders. It does get very tiresome to read SA’s continual berating of breeders, and issues that are important to them.
This is the BREEDING board, in case you are lost SA.
Where is the like button? :yes::yes:
I have bred always to Hanoverian or Hanoverian-approved jumper stallions with excellent movement and conformation including Fuerst Gotthard, Landkoenig, Rubignon (FEI Swedish Dressage Team but 9’s on jumping in stallion testing), For Play, and Pablo. All of the resulting get have done well in hunter breeding and those old enough to be shown performance are doing well in either show jumping or as show hunters.
If I bred to either Redwine or Aloha, I’d feel as though I was breeding for the hunter conformation equivalent of halter horses. Federalist might be the exception but I can seriously fault his conformation. Romantic Star is the real exception and should produce show hunters with the right pairing. I’d never deal, however, with the current owner of these horses, Jill Burnell of Gray Fox Farm. There are just too many very talented stallions in the world to consider coping with well known dishonesty.
[QUOTE=S A McKee;6374854]
Most HB show people could care less that is said here. And papers or a lack of them mean nothing for HB .
All that matters is she is the leading USEF HB breeder and Redwine is the leading HB stallion. Aloha is in 3rd place currently…
So as long as anyone who shows a Redwine offspring keeps showing and they keep winning then people will buy her foals.
All the advertising she needs is provided everytime one of the HB horses wins.
Many HB people do not care if the the horse has a performance career or ever shows over fences. It’s very much like AQHA breeding classes.[/QUOTE]
WOW - talk about degrading someone’s clients !
Can’t you think of anything nice to say about them ?
[QUOTE=Mardi;6375688]
WOW - talk about degrading someone’s clients !
Can’t you think of anything nice to say about them ?[/QUOTE]
As another poster has pointed out , S A McKee doesn’t say a lot of nice…(very little…almost none…)
[QUOTE=S A McKee;6375101]
The USEF ranking is by sire, not mare and that’s all that matters for National Ranking.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the ranking names sires, but it’s not a stallion performance ranking.
AS YOU KNOW it’s based on the success of the offspring. And the quality of the offspring comes from both stallion and mare (in some respects mostly the mare).
Top sporthorse breeders are keenly aware of this, and they never discount the influence of the mare.
You know, Jill does have a husband. His name is on all the foreclosure records.
Might “RoyParker” be Mr. Burnell?
The Dalai Lama said something along the lines of this:
“If you think that because you are small, you can’t change a thing; try sleeping with a mosquitoe and you’ll see who keeps the other from sleeping.”
That is a terrific quote EM! 
I’d never heard that one before but how very very true that is …
Thanks for sharing
Just food for thought …
Jill has a financial debt with us for Aloha’s stallion test. She routinely runs feature ads on www.warmbloods-for-sale.com. There are usually 5 to 6 feature ads at $25 a pop per week. That’s $500 per month. For what she spent on these feature ads, she could have had her debt with us paid in just a little over a year yet no attempt has been made. Since accruing this debt, her mare numbers have doubled so she obviously made the choice to buy mares rather than taking care of her financial obligations. She has made this bed all by herself and I don’t see any effort on her part to resolve it.
[QUOTE=Derby Lyn Farms;6375324]
What you are saying, RoyParker, Is that if we do a head count, and there are more satisfied people then not, then everything that Jill Burnell has done wrong to everyone else is justified? Just because there are X amount of people who did not have a problem with JB makes it ok that she ripped off X amount of people and owes them money?! RoyParker, are you saying the good dealings just even out all the bad dealings? If JB is about 50/50 then she is doing ok, and she shouldn’t have to worry about paying people that she owes money to? RoyParker, You need a bigger shovel…you need a backhoe. Whomever you are RoyParker, you make no sense, and I would never want to do business with a person like you, with a mindset like you. You think the same way that JB thinks.[/QUOTE]
Well Roy is a lawyer after all :rolleyes: Sounds about right. My client murdered an entire school bus filled with children but helped an old lady across the street…
Beautiful Laurierace. So on her website, she sure has sold a lot of her youngsters, including one to Peter Pletcher! Are these old sales? Hard to believe a trainer she stiffed bought a foal! Maybe it was a trade for non-payment? 
To “Roy Parker”: You are either Jill Burnell herself in veiled form, or the worst “friend” Jill Burnell has ever had posting on her behalf. And if you are not Jill , many of us would expect that you were getting some PM’s from Jill for you to please refrain from “defending” her.
Might add … I think it was EVA (now that I try to remember) was the reason I didn’t consider him. Not worth the hassle of even trying in Aus. But barring that given the info on his owner why would you bother so many people now post about horse they can’t register or have difficulty in registering while you state that it is suitable for your discipline. Most people put allot of effect into giving an unborn foal a future. A future that doesn’t include an owner that is difficult and the possibility of not being able to register the foal. Many people that buy foals do want to play at lead shows they are allot of fun and then move to a suitable discipline for the foal or by that stage 4 year old.
[QUOTE=Mardi;6375706]
Yes, the ranking names sires, but it’s not a stallion performance ranking.
AS YOU KNOW it’s based on the success of the offspring. And the quality of the offspring comes from both stallion and mare (in some respects mostly the mare).
Top sporthorse breeders are keenly aware of this, and they never discount the influence of the mare.[/QUOTE]
I was curious so looked up the stats on USEF. I can clearly see the huge variances between total points earned. So I decided to look deeper. It was interesting to see if you looked at how many offspring by these sires are showing, compared the number of shows, number of classes they competed in, and actual 1st place wins, the stats would change dramatically. It would give you a % of winners, just like TB stallions do for their breeding reports.
Here are the top 10 as listed on the USEF site. I actually did the top 25 and that changes things even more. Almost every show had an average of 3-5 competitors, so for the majority of shows everyone got points no matter how they placed. Stats below include best young horse results as well.
Redwine: 9 offspring, 27 shows, 77 classes, 45 wins. Average win 58%
Ragtime: 2 offspring, 5 shows, 36 classes, 29 wins. Average win 81%
Aloha: 1 offspring, 11 shows, 35 classes, 27 wins. Average win 77%
Escapade: 3 offspring, 14 shows, 36 classes, 14 wins. Average win 39%
Willemoes: 2 offspring, 7 shows, 23 classes, 14 wins. Average win 61%
Wesporte: 3 offspring, 6 shows, 24 classes, 13 wins. Average win 54%
Lacoste: 2 offspring, 8 shows, 23 classes, 7 wins. Average win 30%
Simsalabim: 1 offspring, 3 shows, 12 classes, 6 wins. Average win 50%
Just The Best: 5 offspring, 9 shows, 17 classes, 9 wins. Average win 53%
Nobb Hill: 4 offspring, 4 shows, 15 classes, 7 wins. Average win 47%
[QUOTE=216 Jumper;6375314]
I have a friend that did the in hand classes just to enjoy and help expose her youngster to things. When she started her at 3 not much phased her. She enjoyed coming home with those prizes and ribbons, but in the real world they don’t count for more than that. :yes:[/QUOTE]
^^
:yes::yes:
Very cool stats, FHH! Interesting to see that Aloha has a much better win percentage than Redwine. I would have never pegged Aloha as a sire of hunter breeding candidates, but what do I know? :lol:
So to rank them by win percentages:
Ragtime: 2 offspring, 5 shows, 36 classes, 29 wins. Average win 81%
Aloha: 1 offspring, 11 shows, 35 classes, 27 wins. Average win 77%
Willemoes: 2 offspring, 7 shows, 23 classes, 14 wins. Average win 61%
Redwine: 9 offspring, 27 shows, 77 classes, 45 wins. Average win 58%
Wesporte: 3 offspring, 6 shows, 24 classes, 13 wins. Average win 54%
Just The Best: 5 offspring, 9 shows, 17 classes, 9 wins. Average win 53%
Simsalabim: 1 offspring, 3 shows, 12 classes, 6 wins. Average win 50%
Nobb Hill: 4 offspring, 4 shows, 15 classes, 7 wins. Average win 47%
Escapade: 3 offspring, 14 shows, 36 classes, 14 wins. Average win 39%
Lacoste: 2 offspring, 8 shows, 23 classes, 7 wins. Average win 30%
[QUOTE=showjumpers66;6375901]
Just food for thought …
Jill has a financial debt with us for Aloha’s stallion test. She routinely runs feature ads on www.warmbloods-for-sale.com. There are usually 5 to 6 feature ads at $25 a pop per week. That’s $500 per month. For what she spent on these feature ads, she could have had her debt with us paid in just a little over a year yet no attempt has been made. Since accruing this debt, her mare numbers have doubled so she obviously made the choice to buy mares rather than taking care of her financial obligations. She has made this bed all by herself and I don’t see any effort on her part to resolve it.[/QUOTE]
The last time this topic came up, she still had outstanding bounced checks held by both AHS and OHBS/GOV. If she had used some of that ad money, or sales money from mares/foals/breedings to cover those financial obligations, her stallions would be activated with the registries and in their stallion books.
I wonder how many breedings she has lost because she doesn’t want to support the registration of her stallions’ foals? I personally know of at least three breedings to Redwine she lost because of the bounced checks with OHBS/GOV - the mare owners elected to go with other stallions because they wanted registered foals.
I don’t think you can necessarily draw conclusions from a stallion having only 1-2 horses competing. Any stallion can have one or two really nice offspring from the right mare. It’s much harder to have several offspring consistently winning.
I think the main problem with those stats is that if the horse was alone in his class, he is listed as having “won”.
That doesn’t happen in racing, no horse ever races alone.
