Rethinking the USDF Medals

[Scribbler]

@MapleBreeze

It mentioned in the article that he doesn’t have all his medals - so I got curious…how do you look up his scores?

Honestly I would assume that someone who is a BNT and competing Grand Prix and traveling giving clinics would not have bothered with medals along the way. It’s more something that ammies and maybe up and coming junior coaches might want on their resumes. In Canada it’s very much an ammie thing, while up and coming coaches focus on the EC coaching certification. I think Steinberg is likely well past the point where medals would be meaningful.

That’s why his comments struck some people as patronizing, because he perhaps doesn’t fully grasp what the medals mean to ammies in particular.

[Mersidoats]

USDF scores. Or dressage detective will probably have some of his scores.

I think the medals mean a lot to pros and amateurs alike, at least in the US. Getting your gold is no small feat, whether it’s on a made horse or your own. It’s still an accomplishment.

[MapleBreeze]

I agree - and when I see this article shared on social media it’s pros griping about people buying rides - which is true - some do that and then get into judges programs and don’t know how to train … or you can work for it and plan professionally to choose good suitable mounts to get you the scores and train correctly.like always having a young one in the pipeline, making good choices on horse selection, buying yearlings out of pastures and starting them yourself later…and buying 2 so you can sell one when it hits 3 and it finances the next resale… if you’re doing it correctly and post nice pictures and know what you’re doing your client’s won’t care south as long as they and their horse is happy.

It looks like he has only one ride at i2 with a 59.7 - so close! Then 68 rides at grand Prix. I think that’s helpful to see where the article is coming from.

I get where he is coming from in the article but there are so many more deciding factors people consider when picking a trainer. Personally I feel that location (how convenient for the client) cost, and personality trump medals in determining whether a client is coming to you or not.

[Sticky_Situation]

For every achievement out there in the world, there will always be those that take the path of least resistance to get there, as well as those that either by choice or by unavoidable circumstances had to do it “the hard way.” Life is not fair.

Are the medals intended to be proof that someone is capable of producing horses to compete successfully at X level? If so, then maybe it does need an overhaul… but even then, some will have an easier time getting there than others for reasons that have nothing to do with their ability as a trainer.

Where do you draw the line to determine in the rider trained the horse to that level or not? If they’re the only one that has ever sat on him, it’s obvious. But what if they occasionally let an friend hop on him? What if their instructor occasionally hops on him during a lesson to demonstrate stuff? What if they do 80% of the riding, but the horse gets training rides once a week? What if the horse has been in full training with another Gold medalist all along, but the rider has had him since he was 3 and nobody else has shown him? It seems unenforceable.

I’m mostly an event rider but I’ve toyed with the idea of trying to get my bronze at some point, and my horse is one I’ve trained myself. But to me, if Suzie Q. Amateur goes out and buys a $200,000 schoolmaster and gets her bronze medal in record time, well, good for her! To me personally, someone getting it with a horse they brought along personally means more, but it’s no skin off my back if someone else takes a route they find to be easier.

Also, I don’t get the “we should change the minimum scores to 64% because that’s considered the minimum score you should have to move up to the next level” thing. I thought the medals were kind of to demonstrate a basic level on competence at the level … so a Bronze medal means you can ride a generally competent (60%+) test at Third level. Why should you need to demonstrate you’re ready to move up to Fourth? Maybe the agita is over people getting a 61% at second and then moving on to Third right away chasing their medal … but in that case, if they haven’t done the homework they’re likely to struggle to hit 60% at Third.

[Mersidoats]

@Sticky_Situation

Maybe the agita is over people getting a 61% at second and then moving on to Third right away chasing their medal … but in that case, if they haven’t done the homework they’re likely to struggle to hit 60% at Third.

I am this person. And I don’t want to be. But I don’t have endless amounts of money to show and try to prove that I can get 65%+ at any given level. I rode a sweet, but untalented horse for my first and second level scores. Lord have mercy, it was an uphill climb to get that mare to collect her canter. It was a struggle to get her to have a pure walk. First level was a cakewalk - easy mid 60’s. Then we struggled and worked for a year. We did four shows at 2nd level, I got a 56, a 63, and two 61’s. And I was done. I put my funds towards tack that fit, training, lessons, body work and whatever that mare needed to get her feeling her best.

And then I looked for a horse that was capable of third level .

[cnm161]

@MapleBreeze

It looks like he has only one ride at i2 with a 59.7 - so close! Then 68 rides at grand Prix. I think that’s helpful to see where the article is coming from.

I didn’t check his scores, but if he has any 2 > 60% intermediare scores (i1 or i2 or any combination) + GP x2 then he’s fulfilled the requirements.

In the interest of honesty I’ll confess to skipping i2 entirely and going straight from i1 to GP, driven partially by my quest for a medal and partially by awareness of the limited show budget (and wear&tear on my gelding).

[yaya]

He has EARNED all the scores for all the medals, he just may not have CLAIMED them.

Used to be, the cost of the medals were included in your USDF membership, all you had to do was apply for them after earning the scores. Now you have to apply and PAY for the medals, so many people are happy having earned them, just not having an official record of them.

[MapleBreeze]

That makes sense - thanks!

[Scribbler]

Oh that makes sense. In Canada you need to register and pay too. Honestly if a BNT is riding and doing well at GP the medals become irrelevant. And I’m going to guess that if you are riding FEI level FEI, on the international list, your scores don’t count.

So I looked up the FEI list. He doesn’t seem to be on it for the current year. I Googled some random past years. It looks like he was world #71 in 2012 for instance I think that if you are ranked on the FEI list the national USDF medals are going to be irrelevant in your world.

FEI rankings are points accrued that year, so it relies on frequency and placings at CDI. Rank #71 is respectable, especially since the top 20 are usually Northern Europe.

[hoopoe]

To my knowledge, Jeremy does not actively complete these days. In the past he was critical of judging in the elite level and what is called The Halo Effect

[hopashore1]

I agree with his point that it CAN be a bit “buyer beware” when you are looking for trainers and someone has their SIlver and Gold medals and then you are using that as a basis for whether or not to ride with that person if your goal is also to get up to the FEI levels and need a trainer who can help you get there–it is definitely valuable if that trainer also trained it rather than just rode it. If the point of the medals program is to be able to judge the quality of a rider or trainer than sure, I agree, it’s flawed. I just disagree that for the majority of dressage riders that’s the use of the medal system.

But I was so freaking proud of my 60-64% scores on my OTTB at PSG/I1. I’m technically an open rider because I occasionally give the odd jump lesson or someone pays me to hack out their horse while they’re on vacation and I like the extra money, but I have a full time job, I have a family, I ride at 8-9 pm most nights on a horse who isn’t the most naturally talented and struggles mentally with the collection and I’ll be frank I’m not the most naturally talented either. He took three years to learn how to do changes in a way that was rideable and stayed with me mentally. I’m stiff and I’m sore and struggle with my body position too. I can only afford lessons every couple of months. I make plenty of mistakes and the FEI levels are HARD. I can count on one hand the times a trainer has ridden my horse. I have plenty of 58-59.9 scores because of just a few too many mistakes and struggling to get back to it after I had my son. And I am damn proud of when more things have gone right than wrong and we got the scores, even if it’s “just” a 60%. It’s still hard and it’s still an accomplishment.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

I think many AAs would like to buy a horse that has not only been sat upon already but taken out to a few shows. I bought an unstarted horse myself about 10 years ago. I had an event rider start him for me. The horse was in training for two months. The first month I watched and did groundwork, the second month we gradually made the transition to me doing most of the riding. Then I took him home and continued as his primary rider with regular lessons from my dressage instructor. When it came time for his first show a few months later, I asked the event rider to be the one to ride him at the first show. I showed him myself a month later. I already had my bronze metal, but if I had not would that one show under a pro negate the scores I or anyone else earned on that horse for the rest of his life? The pro was an eventer, so didn’t have or want/need a bronze medal.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

I certainly don’t think that a requirement for the horse to be registered with USDF/USEF by the age of 4 is reasonable. It would preclude a horse that was started late, or did another discipline first, or just did schooling shows first, from ever being part of any rider’s medal journey.

I also am inclined to think that having been shown by another rider EVER should preclude a horse being able to earn bronze medal scores for a rider (see example above, and others in this thread). Another example: what if several family members share a horse? Lets say Mom has brought the horse along through 2nd level, then lets 12 year old daughter who has contributed little or nothing to horse’s training show horse at training level. Mom then goes on to get her 3rd level scores the next year. Should they not count for bronze medal scores because she shared horse with daughter?

It might be more reasonable to say that if the horse has previously been shown and got medal scores by anyone else at or above the same level the later rider’s scores would not count toward their medals. In the example above if daughter eventually gets 60+ at first level her scores would not count because someone else had already done this level successfully on this horse. I am not actually in favor of this restriction, but acknowledge that it MIGHT be reasonable.

[Salty]

I stopped reading.when I read “piloting.”

[Mersidoats]

What about a special award for people who get all of their medal qualifying scores on the same horse, but without requiring them to register the horse with USDF as a four year old? Might be a nice way to acknowledge “training up” the levels.

[Sticky_Situation]

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I never understood the USDF medals to be something that was intended to imply training prowess or capability as an instructor. I thought it was specifically a rider award … not an award for training horses through X level, or teaching riders at that level. An instructor having a Silver or Gold medal doesn’t seem like the be-all, end-all of their qualifications, although it does at least let you know they’re someone that has competed at a higher level and not just some random person that hung a shingle and proclaimed themself a trainer after riding a few second level tests.

If he’s concerned about being able to demonstrate the ability to train a horse to whatever level, why not make a separate award for training?

Side note … It’s been a couple decades since I really did any USDF shows or had a membership, but it’s incredibly dumb to make people pay extra for their medals if they’re already members. They’d better be giving out real gold medals for that, not just certificates and trinkets.

[xQHDQ]

I think what Jeremy is proposing would encourage people to push their horses too hard, too early. It’s very rare that an amateur has a horse from TL to GP, let alone a professional because things happen. If you can do it correctly - power to you! But because we all know things happen, people are going to try to train the horse quickly (before that thing happens), which means taking short cuts that are detrimental to the horse.

[meupatdoes]

People seem to be consistently missing the fact that he is not talking about replacing the current medals scheme, but complementing it with an additional training based award.

I personally really liked the centerline scores format and think it’s a shame USDF wouldn’t play nice with them. It was very easy to see which trainers had trained horses up through the levels, and who had scores of 70 or above at every level on multiple horses. That’s a very different resume from someone who squeaked to their gold with a 60.1%.

As for everyone who is offended at ‘piloting’, sorry, there’s a huge difference between being able to install it from scratch and riding what someone else trained. There just is.

Dressage ultimately doesn’t care if you accept this in your heart of hearts or not, or if there is a special reward for trainers or if there isn’t, or if someone leased a schoolmaster and still had to work really really hard. Regardless of what recognition program does or does not exist, or whether Jeremy Steinberg names it out loud in an article or not, that fundamental difference will still remain.

[skydy]

@meupatdoes

People seem to be consistently missing the fact that he is not talking about replacing the current medals scheme, but complementing it with an additional training based award.

All that the USDF has proposed is creating “Medals of Distinction” which would require 64% scores to earn instead of the 60% scores required by the current medal system. The USDF has proposed nothing about training or registration requirements, those are Steinberg’s ideas (and wishful thinking.)

The first paragraph of the article;

The U.S. Dressage Federation Awards Committee has proposed a new level of rider medals, “medals of distinction,” to complement the current bronze, silver and gold medals. This makes sense on many levels, as those score requirements have been in place since the inception of the program in 1973. The quality of riding, horses, judging and overall education has changed since then, and it’s time to raise that bar. Those who disagree can continue to pursue medals in the older program since it sounds like the new award program will exist beside the original one.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

There is also a difference with each horse in the difficulty of “being able to install it”. There is as much difference between “being able to install it” in one horse vs many horses as there is between being able to “pilot it” on one horse and “Install it” on one horse.