Looking at buying a really broke, classy, well-trained QH as a retraining project for lower level dressage/jumping. Horse is trained WP. Assuming conformation, brain, and soundness are appropriate for the job, what do I need to know? Suggestions/tips? Horse was super willing and honest and tried to figure out what I wanted when I tried it, despite many miscues on my part. Just looking for others’ experiences & advice!
Check the horse’s build. Is it built uphill or high in rear/downhill? Does the neck come out between the front legs - front leg set back underneath from a side view, or is there a higher placed shoulder point and open shoulder angle, i.e. with a straight-ish line up from top/front of front leg to shoulder point, A low WP way of going can be changed if it is not the way the horse is built to go. Also if you buy it, ride and school it in fields or large open spaces, not arenas, for a long, long time.
Are you going to have an instructor or coach?
Also, you need to have patience, patience , and some patience.
Conformation is important, but you are you going to have to school this horse so he can learn to use his muscles correctly.
it’s going to take time and being careful not to work him until he is sore and cranky.
Hill work would be good if you are in area that has them.
Dressage is the art of correcting correctly.
So don’t overwork him, and don’t drill and drill.
Study up on videos and books that focus on bringing along dressage horses.
If you are planning on DIY dressage, don’t. Ask me how I know.
Good luck.
I retrained a cutting/sorting/roping/ QH to be my first flight fox hunter!!! He’s awesome! It took me 2.5 years to get from never walked over a ground pole to jumping 3’ and going first flight this season.
Some advice --I was very frustrated with Will at first --he was supposed to be a well-trained horse --but he: walked away at the mounting block, consistently took the wrong lead, dropped his head almost to the ground at the canter, and more than once nearly threw me over his head when he stopped. Sigh.
Took him to my grand daughter’s trainer --he’s a mostly western trainer and also a judge but in his youth rode English exclusively. He watched me and said, “You are speaking the same language, but have different accents. You need to speak slower, more clearly, and give him time to figure out what you just said.”
He also said --“What he’s been taught in 8 years isn’t going to be forgotten in one year.”
With this in mind, I took a deep breath and started back slowly. Horse had been owned and shown by young men --I was in contact with the previous owners --20 somethings. That he walked off when mounted didn’t bother them. So I started retraining him, but understood it wouldn’t over night. It didn’t. It took about 4-5 months. But now will stands still for mounting. The lead thing was me --I was cuing “English” and Will knows western. Once we figured that out (English–outside leg, outside rein = inside lead–Western: outside leg, sight neck rein to the inside gets inside lead) and suddenly we were getting correct lead almost always (except when I forget) and BONUS --Will does splendid flying lead changes! The low head at the canter is again a Western thing (watch reining) --I lifted my hand and “bumped” his head up --only had to do that a few times and the “snake head” came up to where I was comfortable. He will drop it if asked --but I don’t ask much. And that “whoa” that nearly made me fly over his head? Wrong word. Whoa gets a sliding stop with Will nearly sitting down. “Easy” gets a slower to stop response.
Funny story --I spent about two weeks perfecting side passes so Will and I could open and close gates flawlessly. Then happened on a video of him on YouTube --he was working a rodeo as a pick-up horse --the rider was opening and closing gates flawlessly. Will knew how to do gates --must have been pretty frustrating for him to have to teach ME!
So far, I have taught Will pretty much nothing --he’s taught me. But I did teach him to jump --or at least, jump with me. At first he was confused by ground poles --then picked that up. We went to cross rails --and he got it --then 18" bounce courses and gradually raised the last one to two feet, then 2’4" and then 2’6" and last summer, he ended his summer training at 2’7" --he continued in second flight taking what was in his range (remember the jumps on the hunt field don’t fall down --like 3-Day eventing fences). This summer he started doing some serious work on CC courses and ended the summer with doing CC courses 2’ to 2’10". We still haven’t tried the 3’ stuff --there’s always next year.
Best advice is enjoy the Western training and add your English training. It’s cool on the hunt field when the Master asks for a reverse field that Will can roll-back. Other fun stuff is his flawless ground manners, and his ability to hook up the trailer – that’s a joke —I tell people that the only way he could load better is to hook the trailer for me. One odd thing about Will is he works best wearing ear plugs --I had a little trouble with him at his first couple of hunts not focusing --I messaged his last owner who said, “Did you put his ear plugs in?” --well, I’d bought Will at an auction (not a bad auction --Western Horses are often sold through auctions) and somewhere the ear plugs were lost or forgotten. I put in ear plugs and i had a horse that concentrated on his job. Who knew? I guess they are common in the Western world . . .
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I am actually a part time pro & an experienced rider–I have done my own OTTBs in the past as well as a couple of green QHs, but have not worked with one with the WP “buttons.” I will have access to help too. Looking at this horse for a personal project; has the brain, manners and exposure I’m looking for, but am not finding in my budget in already started eventers.
@plumcreek–horse is only a touch downhill, less so than some TBs I have had. Not a conformation expert but neck does not tie in particularly low, and looks like natural head/neck carriage is around wither height. Thank you for the info, will go back and look at pics with that info in mind.
It seems a bit taking a square peg and trying to fit it into a round hole. Dressage and WP are pretty much polar opposites. Not to say it can’t be done, but I just question, why try? Jmo…
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A horse that is good at WP is going to be the opposite in every way to what you want for eventing.
This would be a very slow process project, if you get very far at all.
Of note; many WP horses have a “spur stop” or “squeeze stop” - you add leg to slow down or stop. You “bump” to go. They may be used to being ridden in large spurs and be rather dead to a bare leg or button spur. Some trainers go with the logic of using a harsh bit to teach them to be soft to the bridle, which can give you a horse that is very shy of contact. They also may have been ridden with a lot of “popping” and “tickling” with the reins, and then letting the contact go entirely, to get the draped reins and get the horse to “hang” their head as desires.
None of those things are impossible to train out, but they may be very difficult.
The uber slow lope and jog can be very hard on hocks and the hind end in general. I would have this horse vetted thoroughly.
I will also note that a good WP show horse is bred and built to go low & slow. My friends horses are capable of stepping out into more forward, English type working gaits, but left to their own devices they want to go slow, almost toe-draggingly slow. Even in turn out there is a marked difference in how they move and play vs my sportier QH.
They are bred to be well minded and people pleasers, so they would probably cooperate with you as long as you take the time to train them up right, but you are asking a lot of the horse if they are a true WP bred QH or paint.
I will obviously say all of this with the caveat that yes, these are generalizations, and yes, this is just my opinion, based on my experiences.
This would not be where I would shop for a QH to do eventing. Trail horses, hunt seat horses, ranch, cutting, gaming… but not WP.
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Fair question. I have been shopping for 6 months and have been unable to find what I’m looking for in my budget. This horse has the build, brain, & exposure/life experience that I’m looking for in the price range I can afford. I have previously brought along 2 QHs through BN/N eventing and both were successful at the lower levels–but they were not started in WP, hence my question.
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I have a friend who gave me a lesson on her WP horse and it was so different - mostly the spur stop / bump to go mentioned above. He did also do LL dressage, and was good at it, but they had the WP knowledge base to know when they were asking him for different responses. Do you have any local WP people who can be resources? Might be helpful. Good luck!
