Rewarding a horse with pat, scratch or smack?

[CHT]

A stroke of a scratch would be an inherant method of praise as it mimics how horse’s interact with each other in a pleasureable manner.

Verbal praise or a slap on the neck would be a trained form of praise…the key is that it must be trained before if can be effective (associated with a feeling of well being). One of the first things I do when training a horse is associate getting scratched or given a treat with the words “Good boy/girl”.

I find most people that slap the horse are really releasing their own tension; finishing a difficult test/round or surviving something frightening rather that really looking to make the horse feel good.

[mvp]

The nicest thing is being able to vary the praise with the horse’s mood. Such intimacy!

I recently gave my broke, quiet, school-master gelding one of those big slaps of praise when he was feeling good and out on the trail. It was like a big fist pump at a WWF match. He said back, “F*ck Yeah! I’m Da Man.” We shared a nice moment.

[Concordia]

Hahah, I wonder if they really love the big slaps that many riders give out.

When teaching, I tell riders to give their horses a ‘scratch’ vs. a pat just because it usually ends up as a gentle little token that they horses’ seem to understand as ‘good boy!’.

When riding, I often will give them a little pet down the length of their neck and a soft ‘good booy’ in addition to giving the rein and letting them stretch for a few strides before picking them up again.

[Shiaway]

I give a light pat or rub. I do this with my inside hand so it is ok to release the contact for a moment–you should be able to do this at my level or I am in trouble if I can’t.

I think as long as you’re consistent it doesn’t matter really. I mean people train their horse to connect a “click” with a treat (i.e. clicker training) and horses don’t go around clicking at each other. I think if you’re consistent they know what you mean.

[netg]

Slaps are ok on the ground, but they bother my guy from the saddle. He adores crest scratches because he’s itchy, though. Most often I give him a “goooooood boy!” If he’s just lifted his back or extended more than he had been and I give him one of those, whatever he was just doing gets even bigger and more enthusiastic as he lets out a huge sigh. He makes it pretty clear he knows what it means, and he loves it.

[Simbalism]

My gelding used to like the “slap” on his neck or if I was on the ground on his big broad face.My mare on the other hand is offended by this. She likes wither scritches, light patting on her neck or a hand run thru her mane. If she’s been particularly good I often lean over and pat her on her shoulders.

[egontoast]

I doubt horses enjoy the large slap on the neck but who knows. I use scritches and voice.

Well, my two geldings stand nose to withers and itch each other with their teeth SO HARD it make me cringe. They bite each other’s skin and pull so hard they pull hair out. Neither seems the least bit bothered at all, and they do it every single day. They’ve torn holes in their poor fly sheets. They stand there with their eyes half shut, just pulling on each other’s hide like it’s the best massage in the world. So at least for these two horses, a hearty pat on the shoulder probably shouldn’t be a deal breaker. The two Arabs however are much more sensitive and prefer a good wither scratching.

This is very common gelding behavior. I doubt it has anything to do with them being less sensitive because they aren’t Arabians.

http://www.canstockphoto.com/helping-each-other-out-0878969.html

[jenm]

@joiedevie99;5012154

I do this. Sometimes the stop and scratch moments come with a sugar cube too![/QUOTE]

I reward this way also!

[QUOTE=Concordia;5012788]Hahah, I wonder if they really love the big slaps that many riders give out.

I remember reading an article a while back where a study showed horses preferred rubs over big slaps, but I have no idea where the article was or how they did the study! Personally, it bothers me to see riders give big slaps on the neck or shoulder, I don’t know how a horse can find that rewarding.

I think George Morris once made a comment wondering whether the big pats were for the horse or the spectators.

[Passage2]

I once read that hard pats on the neck can cause tension in a horse’s neck and started to boycott this form of praise. I later heard from an Olympic BNT that horses prefer a strong pat over a weak one and related it to a wimpy handshake or a firm handshake. He stated, “what would you prefer??” I have to admit that I’m firm patter and often feel like I’m the only one at my facility making a fuss over my horse. I usually use a lot of vocal praise, sugar and strong pats followed by walk breaks.

[Samantha37]

I do all of the above except for food treats in the saddle. I never give treats from the saddle. I will give a quick rub or scratch when I give the inside rein during work. Usually during jumping we get the big pats on the neck when we are done with a course- especially if he had to save my butt, then he gets uber “good boys” LOL! I will sometimes rub my hands along his mane, very firmly. One of my horses LOVES this and the other doesn’t really care.

I firmly pat the neck frequently, too… a lot of times when he is going back to his stall after work he gets the huge neck pats while I tell him just how fan-freaking-tastic he is.

[luvmydutch]

Have you not heard the old saying “you can pat a man and you can pat a dog, but women and horses you stroke”. Do YOU enjoy it when someone comes up behind you and slaps you on the back really hard? That isn’t a reward at all, release of pressure is the only true form of reward in horse training.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=luvmydutch;5015772]
Have you not heard the old saying “you can pat a man and you can pat a dog, but women and horses you stroke”. Do YOU enjoy it when someone comes up behind you and slaps you on the back really hard? That isn’t a reward at all, release of pressure is the only true form of reward in horse training.[/QUOTE]

Except that the right kind of slap on the back can really feel quite good. (And be highly effective if you have chest congestion, added bonus!)

I think we need to specify a difference between hard ‘stinging’ slaps out of the blue and a ‘slap’ with a relaxed/cupped hand that’s more of a ‘thud’ type impact that the horse is reasonably expecting. The former - most horses are either going to tense up or learn to ignore it. The latter - some horses will quite possibly actually enjoy it, some won’t, depending on the individual horse. (Just like dogs and people sometimes prefer different types of touch.)

That said, I think any kind of touch/rub is likely to function mainly as a secondary reinforcement - i.e. something where much of the meaning comes with being associated with a primary reinforcement. (Like if you say ‘good boy’ and give a treat regularly, eventually ‘good boy’ becomes associated with ‘yay, tasty treat coming’ feelings and so ‘good boy’ on it’s own is a reward. Though if you then never repeat the combination of ‘good boy’ and treat then ‘good boy’ can lose value over time.)

So in this case - slap/pat/rub is paired with loose reins and possibly the end of a training session initially, which ‘loads’ it with good feelings for the horse, so then when it’s given in a competition situation where the routine might be different and the horse can’t immediately go back to the barn or whatever, it still functions as a positive gesture.

[Mor4ward]

I don’t slap - I stroke. Once, and slowly.

I came away from a recent Craig Stevens clinic with some good insight: the tempo of stroking.
Its calming value is linked to heartbeat. Ours is in the 70-ish per minute rate, while a horse’s is more like 20-30. The speed and frequency of the calming and rewarding stroke ought to be slower than the heartbeat.

So my feeling is that one long, slow stroke of the neck is a greater positive enforcement than quick slaps or strokes.

And vocal reinforcements go a long way: “GOooood B00oyyy” … the closer it sounds to a friendly nicker, the warmer it is received.

[slbose61]

Depending on what we are doing and how big the accomplishment is, I give my mare verbal praises, rubs, or hugs, sometimes all three at once (which she loves).

It doesn’t feel natural or comfortable for me to give pats, nor does she respond to them.

[Aven]

Horses can learn that a whack is a reward. If the whack coincides with a relaxed and happy rider and a loose rein it will be come conditioned to be a reward.

Same with “good boy” for horses or dogs it becomes a no punisher signal. It means you are not going to be corrected and can have a breather. If you train a dog with positive methods praise doesn’t mean much, as there is no punishment that has been avoided.

For example think of people with jobs. If you know your work is great, and your boss loves you a ‘good job’ is nice to hear, but kind of understood. If you have an a$$ of a boss who always rides you and you worry about being punished (ie reamed out in public, demoted, fired etc) a ‘good job’ is going to be a relief.

Also the biggest things with rewards is the rewardee has to find it so. (same with effective punishments) A whack might be a great reward from one horse, and a scary aversive for another. Its what the horse finds pleasing that is rewarding. Hopping off at the end of the ride is rewarding, but its only rewarding what you last did, likely the halt. The cookies and grazing afterwards are awesome, and great ways to bond, but they aren’t, strictly speaking, rewards.

I would love to have treats on hand to reward in the saddle. Its just that I haven’t found anything that Senn will eat that doesn’t make a huge mess…

[Samantha37]

I completey agree with you Aven! Both of my horses have liked whacks and they have grown used to them being meaning praise. The one will arch his neck and get all proud of himself when he gets a “good boy” and a firm pat on the neck.

MTA: I don’t mind being slapped on the back, given the right circumstances and not a slap where the hand is positioned so it hurts more. You see that kind of stuff a lot with athletes.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Samantha37;5016656]
I completey agree with you Aven! Both of my horses have liked whacks and they have grown used to them being meaning praise. The one will arch his neck and get all proud of himself when he gets a “good boy” and a firm pat on the neck.

MTA: I don’t mind being slapped on the back, given the right circumstances and not a slap where the hand is positioned so it hurts more. You see that kind of stuff a lot with athletes.[/QUOTE]

Amen!:)All my babies get pats, whacks, whatever. They have grown up with it. They like it. I don’t give treats. Just me. They arch their necks, rub up and down. They enjoy it. People, Don’t tell me that horses dont appreciate hard pats etc. You have not a clue about what other people’s horses enjoy. Your way is not the only way, or the only right way.

[merrygoround]

I had a boy that would go all floppy eared over a rub down and up his mane. Never used it in a test to improve the stretch circle, wonder what the judge would’ve said. :lol:

For moments when a more discreet and less obvious means of saying “thank you” or “good job” , a quiet scratch on the neck.

The only time you see horses smack one another, is with a foot. Definitely not friendly.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Interesting analogy about what we see horses do to other horses. When was the last time anyone saw a horse put a bridle on another horse? Or load another horse? Keep applying that logic.

[ddashaq]

I tend to wither scratch, verbally say “Good Boy!”, and occasionally do a light neck slap. Neither of my boys care and whether they are responding to that or the release of pressure, they seem to acknowledge it with a big sigh and floppy ears. In my experience, whatever reward the horse is used to is best as I have seen some exciting moments caused by neck slapping a horse that has NO idea what it means. I personally had a horse bolt with me when I reached forward and rubbed his neck on a hack, so while I agree that most horses might prefer that, not all of them do! (He apparently had never had a scratch, rub, or pat as all three sent him into orbit if you were in the tack.)