Rewarding a horse with pat, scratch or smack?

[CamdenLab]

I see a lot of dressage riders rewarding their horses with a big smack on the shoulder. Do horses really like that?

I’m trying to encourage my daughter to reward her horse more and she’s picked up with smacking thing from her trainer. The horse doesn’t seem to care and she’s indifferent about being stroked, too, at least on the ground. Frankly, she’s an indifferent mare anyway. I do know that she likes being lightly scratched in the usual places.

The only type of reward she seems to enjoy or care about are food-related rewards but it’s impossible for rewarding a horse with food at the right time from their back.

Thoughts or ideas?

[Twigster]

I think the pat is more for the rider than for the horse. The horse got its reward when the rider relaxed, and let down the reins before patting.

Usually I try to reward by changing things up. Change direction, change gait, whatever, just so I’m not asking for the same thing after it was done well. If it was particularly fantastic, I get off. The ultimate reward

[Foxtrot_s]

We go with voice sounds and release of pressure - and a cookie at the end of the work session (which I’m not convinced they process as a reward, but makes us feel we have said an appropriate thank-you.)

A scratch on the withers is my method of offering security if she is a bit wide-eyed at anything.

I, too, do not like to see a joyful rider whacking their horse, in show-jumping, dressage or anything.

[quietann]

Wither-scratching all the way here. It means “I like you!” in horse language. It’s also very soothing for a tense horse. I used to do the slap, but I don’t think horses necessarily understand it.

A stroke down the top of the mane is also highly approved of by many horses.

At the end of a really good round, I have been known to lean over and hug my horse around the neck, while telling her how wonderful she is. That probably feels more like a predator to her, but she puts up with it anyway.

[Pennywell_Bay]

I do the “pat pat pat” on their neck and give a little looser rein. They “seem” to like it. Their ears usually go forward and wiggle at me. I always say “ok- pat your horse”

[twofatponies]

While riding I sometimes give a little wither scratch or rub - can coincide with the release of a rein, for example without interrupting the work. If I’m making a big deal of a good deed, we halt and I rub and scratch up and down the neck and praise verbally and we stand there and rest a moment. I sometimes do some soft patting, but mostly stroking or scratching or petting - the big hard whacks do seem equivalent to the auntie who grabs your cheeks and says “oooo what a big booooy!!!” :lol:

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=CamdenLab;5011904]
I see a lot of dressage riders rewarding their horses with a big smack on the shoulder. Do horses really like that?

I’m trying to encourage my daughter to reward her horse more and she’s picked up with smacking thing from her trainer. The horse doesn’t seem to care and she’s indifferent about being stroked, too, at least on the ground. Frankly, she’s an indifferent mare anyway. I do know that she likes being lightly scratched in the usual places.

The only type of reward she seems to enjoy or care about are food-related rewards but it’s impossible for rewarding a horse with food at the right time from their back.

Thoughts or ideas?[/QUOTE]

yes they do

a pat a scratch smacks on shcoulders etc is a reward for the horse - its instance acceptance of good

and works better than treats- as with treats can reward a bad behaviour and make it ten times worse pats and scratches dont

the horse is aming to please - so when you pat or scratch when you are then its rewardiing him and telling him istantly hes a good boy
bit like when your prazing a dog- you pat and praze the dog if brought you slipers but if he poohed on the carpet you would scold hi by rasing your voice and ignoring him

using your tones of voices with the pats and scratches will back up the bond you have with the horse and the trust - as to ahorse scratching is freindship

horses when they are mates will scratch one another via grooming one another- so a pat or scratch is enhancing that of freind ship,
and trust so its adding moe bonding between you and the horse
and when your in partnership and competeing at any events or shows then that bonding is something that can help you, as if perhaps jumping a jump and you slightly went wrong a good honest horse can get you out of trouble and if you have bonded with then more than likely will and he will excelll and perform to the best of his/her ability

so yeah it s important part of horsemanship of understanding how horses work in there minds horse are in the moments of now- they cant tell futures
and they cant tell the past
so its in the now moment so instance by pat of the nw moment is pleased so next time hes out doing something he will remember as he got a reward for it - as then and there. here and now

[joiedevie99]

[QUOTE=twofatponies;5012052]
While riding I sometimes give a little wither scratch or rub - can coincide with the release of a rein, for example without interrupting the work. If I’m making a big deal of a good deed, we halt and I rub and scratch up and down the neck and praise verbally and we stand there and rest a moment. I sometimes do some soft patting, but mostly stroking or scratching or petting - the big hard whacks do seem equivalent to the auntie who grabs your cheeks and says “oooo what a big booooy!!!” :lol:[/QUOTE]

I do this. Sometimes the stop and scratch moments come with a sugar cube too!

[cyndi]

I have ‘treat pouches’ on all my saddles - hooked to SOS strap. I carry sugar cubes and wrapped peppermints and reward with those and a 'good girl/boy,'with a scratch or rub on their neck.

There was a study done recently that showed horses learned best with food rewards. Mine certainly do. And they do not ‘look’ for the rewards on their own. They also get a sugar cube before bridling, and some sort of treat upon untacking.

Frankly, the big ‘slap’ has always bothered me - I don’t think it’s something horses really understand, and it seems just a tad ‘rough.’

[kdow]

I think the reward the horse prefers will vary from horse to horse - some animals do seem to like firmer touches than others.

My dog Pirate quite likes being ‘thumped’ for petting - not hard, obviously, but firm, kind of like a massage - whereas my mom’s dog Foxy would be beside herself if you tried that with her - she much prefers a nice rub or scratch. The hardest you can pat/smack her is kind of light drumming with your finger tips, and then only in certain areas.

I do think it’s possible to smack too hard, obviously, but horses are quite big and fairly solid, so one that likes to be ‘thumped’ might prefer something that looks kind of questionable to the casual observer. I think one gauge is how the animal responds to the contact - Pirate never startles or jumps or twitches when he gets a nice pat, unless you really sneak up on him with it. But I have seen people smacking/patting their horse where the horse’s body language is pretty clearly going ‘wtf was that?!?!’ in response to the contact, which would be an indication to me that you need to find a different approach for that horse.

That said, with a horse I didn’t know, I’d probably go for something less potentially startling than a smack as a reward to start out with.

[DressageGeek_Ribbon]

Reward: as twigster said, the reward is the good, relaxed, forward work that leaves them content and relaxed. We take frequent breaks or refresh at a different gait. I also use a verbal “GOOD BOY!”

Smacking would be viewed as a punishment by my horse. Scritching is fine. But the real reward comes afterwards - off with the tack, and presentation with the indoor to roll (if no lesson after me), followed by grazing on the best grass (if weather permits, and if there IS grass).

[Auventera_Two]

Well, my two geldings stand nose to withers and itch each other with their teeth SO HARD it make me cringe. They bite each other’s skin and pull so hard they pull hair out. Neither seems the least bit bothered at all, and they do it every single day. They’ve torn holes in their poor fly sheets. They stand there with their eyes half shut, just pulling on each other’s hide like it’s the best massage in the world. So at least for these two horses, a hearty pat on the shoulder probably shouldn’t be a deal breaker. The two Arabs however are much more sensitive and prefer a good wither scratching. I do pat them but it’s gentle, not the overzealous whacking that jumper riders seem to do.

Within the realm of dogs, the thumping on the side is thought to be calming and therapeutic. You use a cupped hand and it’s more the noise and air pressure against the skin than a flat handed slapping. I do this to my horses with a slightly cupped hand between their front legs - on the flat part of their chest, and they seem to like it. The Arabs will ruffle in my hair with their nose or rub their nose up and down my back while I stand with my back to their chest, patting their chest between their front legs. But if the hand is cupped, it is very gentle and you get mostly noise, not a real slap.

A real reward is a hosing on a hot day, a sand pile to roll in, and some carrots.

[cute_lil_fancy_pants]

I use a rub and scratch along with saying “good” in a soothing voice, but I’ve trained it like you would a clicker so he knows that it means he was good and is going to get a treat. Clickers are annoying sounding and you can’t use them while riding since you need an extra hand to do it, so “good” to my horse is the same as the annoying “click”.

[mzm_farm]

Well, I am in the process of breaking out two 3yr olds and LOTS of praise is part of the deal. These are two fillies - one very sensitive type and the other very laid back. They both seem to like me scratching/rubbing along the manes and necks - crest area. They both like stroking and “scritching”, they do not mind a mane tug when my fingers get wraped in the hair.

I have tried the more customary light “slap” on the shoulder and neither one seemed to take it as praise - they got tense and “on guard”.

I have found food to be excellent at teaching horses, once it is paired up with “good ____” in their head, just my voice is enough to cue them that they did what I like.

I think it depends on the animal and they learn to read us to some extent at least.

[LShipley]

I think my mare knows a pat on the neck or “good girl” means that she has done what I wanted. But I have to keep my leg on when I do it or she will stop dead in her tracks - she also correlates those signs with “time for a break”.

Her most favorite thing is the sound of crumbling plastic - she knows that there are peppermints or something else tasty. She would run from the grooms at the barn until I gave them peppermints. Once she heard the crinkle, she came to them! Lately I have been giving her applesauce (mixed with electrolytes since she doesn’t get grain) and she starts tossing her head when she sees the applesauce jar!

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if i kept a peppermint in my pocket and crinkled the wrapper when I was riding if she would take that as “good job” or stop and reach around to look for her treat.

[kdow]

@Auventera Two;5012236

Within the realm of dogs, the thumping on the side is thought to be calming and therapeutic. You use a cupped hand and it’s more the noise and air pressure against the skin than a flat handed slapping. I do this to my horses with a slightly cupped hand between their front legs - on the flat part of their chest, and they seem to like it. The Arabs will ruffle in my hair with their nose or rub their nose up and down my back while I stand with my back to their chest, patting their chest between their front legs. But if the hand is cupped, it is very gentle and you get mostly noise, not a real slap.

You may have a point with the hand position. Even if my hand isn’t specifically cupped, it’s fairly relaxed so it’s not a really solid ‘slap’ - just trying it on my forearm just now with a tense vs. relaxed hand, the tense hand slap has much more ‘sting’ to it whereas the relaxed hand seems to transfer more to the muscle and feel more massage-like.

I do think location of the thump/slap makes a difference, also - the preference in my dogs seems to be for over fairly large muscle groups or fat pads. On a horse I think that would translate, in areas reasonably reached from the saddle, to fairly low on the neck/shoulder or else possibly on one of the larger muscles in the neck.

That said, sometimes if an animal has an itchy area, light, quick slaps seem to be highly appreciated. There the idea actually is to slap and make the skin sting - but very very lightly. The nerve response seems to help with the itchiness and can be less damaging to irritated skin than actual scratching. (I admit I actually do this to myself when I have one of those bug bites that itches insanely.) But that wouldn’t really be a ‘reward’ thing, just a general grooming/bonding activity.

[esdressage]

My veterinarian used to say, “Rub me, don’t pat me, my mama used to lick me.” (speaking for the horse, of course, lol) It’s stuck with me.

[mp]

[QUOTE=esdressage;5012320]
My veterinarian used to say, “Rub me, don’t pat me, my mama used to lick me.” (speaking for the horse, of course, lol)[/QUOTE]

awwww, darn. That was pretty funny until you added that last part.

Horses are very acute at picking up intent. I’m sure they have preferences re: pat vs. scratch vs. smack. Mine all seem to like neck scritches, but my instructor usually gives my little mare a few appreciative whomps on the side of her neck at the end of our lessons and mare doesn’t mind in the least.

I think as long as your body language doesn’t say “I’m getting ready to eat you” it’s all good to them.

[InsideLeg2OutsideRei]

I was a big rein releaser and got yelled at for that all the time: “DON’T throw your contact away!!!” So now I quietly say “Good girl/boy”, and after something particularly difficult, give a walk break on long reins and a wither scratch.

[esdressage]

[QUOTE=mp;5012327]
awwww, darn. That was pretty funny until you added that last part.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t think anything of it at first, then went back and read it and thought, “uh, oh… click edit post button now!” :lol: