[QUOTE=NinaL aka Chrissy;7034707]
Judging from what I saw for warmup for cross country at Rolex a lot of those horses jump many more warmup jumps then some hunters I know. Also, lots of galloping during warmup. [/QUOTE]
Until about 2006, a CCI had phases A (roads/tracks), B (steeplechase) and C (more roads/tracks) for XC warm-up.
Now, you have to get your horse ready for 4.5 miles of 570 mpm XC in the warm-up area.
Re: Stabilization
I read somewhere, possibly in School for Young Riders, that Jane Marshall Dillon, the great riding teacher, put all her young riders on her stabilized horses and would not allow contact with the horseâs mouth, with steering by direct rein only, until the rider had developed an independent seat.
[QUOTE=asterix;7034728]
Rolex is not your typical event and it is not equivalent to the standard prep of either eventers or hunters. The vast majority of amateur eventers do not compete at the four star level.
Itâs a bit disingenuous to compare the warmup on Rolex cross country day to what goes on at 99% of eventing competitions. I would think if you rode with Ralph Hill you would know that.
If one must compare, however, I feel compelled to point out that those horses are on neither bute nor Robaxin, since they are competing under FEI rules.[/QUOTE]
Obviously it is not the same. But I have been in this sport a long time. Have bred, broken and shown my own. There is a lot in the hunter world that makes me retch. Ditto dressage, jumpers and eventers. You seem to have an axe to grind with me - so be it. How does it feel up there in your ivory tower?
Nina
[QUOTE=JER;7034801]
Until about 2006, a CCI had phases A (roads/tracks), B (steeplechase) and C (more roads/tracks) for XC warm-up.
Now, you have to get your horse ready for 4.5 miles of 570 mpm XC in the warm-up area.[/QUOTE]
Well, yes, that is a problem. I donât love the short format; thought the long format was a lot better for the horse. But those days are gone.
Look, I am not here to âdisâ your sport. I love watching fit horses gallop cross country - I think it is beautiful. I am just pointing out that what you hear about hunter âprepâ may not be what you think. It is irksome to watch everyone painted with the same broad brush. I think it is despicable when people act like rotational falls and dead horses and riders are the norm rather than the outliers in the sport of eventing. The same goes for show hunters - not everyone âlosesâ the horseâs papers and drugs and rides to death. I believe that the USEF has a lot of cleaning up to do in all disciplines. I am just not sure what we can do about it as the committees are made up of people with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
No axe, no ivory tower. Enjoy my sport at my modest level, would not want to ever participate at the highest levels in any discipline as they seem to me to all involve compromises regarding the welfare and happiness of the horses that make our sports possible.
[QUOTE=asterix;7034367]
DMK, little sensitive maybe?[/QUOTE]
No, not even close, and Iâm sorry you got that âreadâ out of it. Anyone who knows me or has any knowledge of my posting history would most likely gather that I feel strongly about policing our own house (and knowing the rules whether I agree with them or not)⊠and I hope that I also come across as having respect for the abilities of good riders and horses in all disciplines at all levels.
But like NinL, even if you do not believe your axe needs grinding, I think you may be unwittingly sharpening it.
Well, then, I apologize. As Iâve said, I do not like the reliance on meds in the hunters, and I think I read the âprepâ post as assuming that eventers use meds as a matter of course as part of a show weekend. I think that once you accept something as normal you stop examining it critically.
I really donât pay much attention to hunters in terms of watching videos, and I was certainly able to appreciate both the beauty and the (hidden) difficulty of the John French round posted.
That was educational for me.
[QUOTE=NinaL aka Chrissy;7033230]
The âprepâ most of the hunters get is probably less than your average eventer. Granted they are not as fit as an eventing horse but does this sound like a hard prep? Hack on showgrounds day before class. Maybe do one or two 3â3" performance hunters with pro. Day of show - 15 minute to 60 minute hack in the ring depending upon time schedule and energy level of horse. Medications - Bute the night before (just in case) and maybe Robaxin all within the legal limits.[/QUOTE]
I have no problems with your âprepâ- it seems quite reasonable. But I would not say it was âless than your average eventerâ.
For instance, I donât know ANY eventers who give their horse " Bute the night before (just in case) ". I know a few that give bute at teh END of the competition , but not before. I am not saying NOBODY does it, but your âaverageâ eventer does NOT give bute the night befeor.
Similarly, the âaverage eventerâ doesnât even own any robaxin. In over 20 years eventing, I have used robaxin exactly twice, and that was both on non-competing horses. And I donât think I am THAT atypical.
The âaverageâ eventer does not have a pro ride her horse immediately before the show (canât ride once the show starts, it is against the rules).
In fact (just a different culture) the "average eventerâs horse is probably NEVER ridden by the instructor/ trainer. If you are bringing along a green horse (or your orse has a pronounced problem), you might have a Pro compete it at a competiton, before you ride it to anlther competition. But not as direct âprepâ.
As far as riding at the show, yes, quite a few horses (esp those that get tense in dressage) wll have a full riding session early in the morning, well before thier actual dressage test.
On average, I think eventers jump FAR fewer warm up jumps than hunters or jumpers. I have gone to an H/J show with a trainer, and been AMAZED at how many warm up jumps he had me do. Yes, there are a few nervous newbys who jump way too many. And a green, nervous horse may need a few more jumps to âsetleâ int the surroundings. My warm up is typically about 6 fences for show jumping, and 1 or 2 for cross country. Again. I donât think I am atypical, and many donât do ANY cross country warm up fences.
Things you DO see a lot of as âprepâ (in the few days before the event) for eventing (and I am not convinced of the efficacy of all of them) include
Joint injections
Magnetic (or orhtewise âspecialâ) blankets/saddle pads etc.
Massage, chiropractic, accupuncture
Special shoeing
Poulticing overnight between phases
Icing
I donât have a problem with your âprepâ, but I wold not say it was " Less than your average eventer". Just different.
If you go to any horse show, of any discipline, at any level, you will see a fair number of examples of people doing it wrong. That doesnât mean no one is doing it right.
With three phases, eventing offers lots of different warm-up opportunity. The most warm-up in eventing that seems to go on forever (from a non-knowing bystander) is for dressage phase âŠI donât know, but I am worn-out watching some of the dressage warm-upsâŠwhereas the stadium appears to have little warm-up and (from the non-knowing bystander) gives the appearance at times of being used for the warm-up (12 plus jumps?) for the real fun (finally) x country, which at the lower level seems to most immediately follow.
I have spent a decent amount of time in A-Circuit Hunter barns and I do believe that their âprepâ can not be compared in any way to ours. One hunter barn I was at, had girls doing the junior hunters and the trainer would ride the horse on Wednesday and Thursday in 8-10 rounds. Then the kids would ride the horse on Fri-Sun for another 8-10 rounds. That is 16-20 rounds that week! They also lunge them for 2 hours a day and were giving them legal amounts of Dex and Robaxin! They never gave bute because the bute makes them feel âgoodâ. They are trying to make them ride slow and dead. I have been to multiple A-circuit barns and the prep is almost exactly the same. Almost all of them do this with the hunters and honestly do not care if the horse canât be ridden after age 12. These horses compete at least 2 weeks out of every month and get ridden in 15-20 rounds to make them quiet. Even with the professionals, just because they arenât being put in tons of rounds every day, they are lunging the snot out of them and then drugging them. Go read the H/J board. This is a serious problem over in hunter land
If these horses are so ridden into the ground and drugged, how is it that they can jump so flawlessly, over sizeable fences? While I am not into riding the âhunter wayâ I am impressed with the jumping style and power of the top hunters.
âThe horses brought up in eventing are bomb proof and as handy as they come.â Quote-purplnurple
But the UL ones are just not âgreenâ.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7041346]
If these horses are so ridden into the ground and drugged, how is it that they can jump so flawlessly, over sizeable fences? While I am not into riding the âhunter wayâ I am impressed with the jumping style and power of the top hunters.[/QUOTE]
I think this is why there arenât that many top hunters around. I donât think the high level professionals are completely doping them but they are definitely using drugs to take the edge off.
[QUOTE=PonyGirl15;7041259]
I have spent a decent amount of time in A-Circuit Hunter barns and I do believe that their âprepâ can not be compared in any way to ours. One hunter barn I was at, had girls doing the junior hunters and the trainer would ride the horse on Wednesday and Thursday in 8-10 rounds. Then the kids would ride the horse on Fri-Sun for another 8-10 rounds. That is 16-20 rounds that week! They also lunge them for 2 hours a day and were giving them legal amounts of Dex and Robaxin! They never gave bute because the bute makes them feel âgoodâ. They are trying to make them ride slow and dead. I have been to multiple A-circuit barns and the prep is almost exactly the same. Almost all of them do this with the hunters and honestly do not care if the horse canât be ridden after age 12. These horses compete at least 2 weeks out of every month and get ridden in 15-20 rounds to make them quiet. Even with the professionals, just because they arenât being put in tons of rounds every day, they are lunging the snot out of them and then drugging them. Go read the H/J board. This is a serious problem over in hunter land[/QUOTE]
What you stated above regarding excessive rounds is really only a problem with disreputable trainers and/or riders and the same at the lower levels. It is not common practice. In fact, if you saw it at so many A show barns, I would want question the levels you were riding at/with whom. Most people I know doing the A circuit hunters do two divisions MAX over 5 days. Thatâs 6-8 o/f classes and 2 hacks. Many will only do one division with a warm-up and a classic.
Really f you figure 2 jumping classes for each division you are saying the horses went in 8-10 hunter divisions? Assuming there are that many divisions at any one show, that would be on heck of a bill!
It actually is a common practice where I live for reputable trainers. I see it way more with the hunters. I never see it with the jumpers. This is mostly done so the trainer has the harder rides and then the kid has the âquietâ rides.
The show bills are around 2500 a week.
âThe show bills are around 2500 a week.â
Wow and I assume they may do back to back shows plus have all the other lovely charges that go with professional barn!
[QUOTE=PonyGirl15;7041641]
The show bills are around 2500 a week.[/QUOTE]
:eek::dead:
[QUOTE=merrygoround;7041546]
âThe horses brought up in eventing are bomb proof and as handy as they come.â Quote-purplnurple
But the UL ones are just not âgreenâ.[/QUOTE]
Itâs not that theyâre green horses - I donât think anyone believes an UL event horse isnât well broke - itâs that theyâre green and inexperienced in hunter competition.
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