Rheaform? need info, help...

[bigolebay]

Hi, anyone on here used or familiar with this drug for chronic diarrhea? I tried a search and it did not come up. I’m fairly new here and have not posted yet on this forum as I have been busy de icing my horses diarrhea caked tail and legs all winter in sub freezing temps.

Vet just prescribed rheaform for two weeks and waiting for powder to arrive from compounding pharm. I am skeptical and do wonder, other than cost and difficulty in dosing why not Metronizadole? Also, has anyone used bio sponge along with rheaform? I ordered it in case he was scriped for Metro so that it could hopefully pull out some toxins and we can start with a clean slate and maybe start a trial of ulcerguard as I suspect he originaly had some ulcers forming before the watery stools and gas.

A little history: My 12 yo gelding has had chronic watery stools and gas for close to a year and so far it is idiopathic. His sheath also has chronic swelling even after a clean and bean removal. He has not lost weight and appears to be healthy otherwise, though can get colicy from gas and inflammatory discomfort. Two vets, 2 sets of bloodwork, 2 fecals all negative. De-worm protocals, elimination diet, sand clear pre and probios all trialed two weeks to a month with no change other than for the worse at times. What I know so far is that pre and probios seem to make more gas, and electrolytes with magnesium sulfate or any other supps with mag are a no no–laxative effect on my guy. Ultrasounding may be down the pipeline but I am almost bankrupt just trying the vets’ wait and see approaches. From my perspective, I feel I’m just waiting while seeing the collateral damage to his gut and immune system

Sorry so lengthy but want to provide what’s been done so far as I know there are other members here who have gone through similar circumstances. I do thank you for reading this far down the page It’s so frustrating!

[Ghazzu]

Used the stuff back in the day when it was still on the market.
Worked quite well in the cases I used it for.

WRT using the biosponge to “pull out toxins”, that’s not how it works.

[candico]

I have used it on three of mine and it cleared up their runny poop in just one dose. They did go off their feed a bit, so I would be careful of using it over an extended period of time. My vet prefers it to metronidazole by far, but again, we just use one packet. I had tried all sorts of probiotics, prebiotics, bio sponge, etc., and this was the only thing that worked besides TCVM herbs which were much more expensive.

[bigolebay]

Thanks Ghazzu, that you found Rheaform worked well for your cases gives me renewed hope! Apparently it has gone out of fashion and very scant literature available on the web for this drug, at least under the brand name–I now know they use it for Elephants. Who knew?

As for Biosponge, I was going to try that next with vet’s approval, before the fecal results came in but have held off hoping to get the most bang for my buck should she prescribe an antibiotic/antimicrobial–which she did. PP claims along with cited studies, that it can absorb C diff and perfringens and such, and help prevent antimicrobial associated diarrhea–that’s what I meant, I guess.

[bigolebay]

Candico, good to know your story had a happy outcome and thanks for the heads up about going off feed. Scrip is for 10-14 days so I will watch for that. What are TCVM herbs?

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=bigolebay;8053273]
Thanks Ghazzu, that you found Rheaform worked well for your cases gives me renewed hope! Apparently it has gone out of fashion and very scant literature available on the web for this drug, at least under the brand name–I now know they use it for Elephants. Who knew?

As for Biosponge, I was going to try that next with vet’s approval, before the fecal results came in but have held off hoping to get the most bang for my buck should she prescribe an antibiotic/antimicrobial–which she did. PP claims along with cited studies, that it can absorb C diff and perfringens and such, and help prevent antimicrobial associated diarrhea–that’s what I meant, I guess. [/QUOTE]

Your clarification makes sense. I didn’t use rheaform often, but for the intractable diarrhea cases it was pretty effective.

[bigolebay]

Update

Thanks again Ghazzu and Candico for your helpful posts. It has been very helpful to have some real life experiences with this medication as my vet office could not give me any other details on this drug other than ‘…it should help clear it up, good luck.’ And that was with me standing there in the office in person this Friday while they looked it up at Wedgewood Pharms website.

I had to really dig around on the web for it and other than Wikip. This site was the most helpful so far:

http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/clioquin.htm

I also found somewhere that Fort Dodge was the last known company that manufactured this as Rheaform, but don’t hold me to that info.

My horse did lose his appetite for his hay and not drinking much water the evening after his second dose (dosed at 2pm, dinner at 7pm.) He did eat his unmedicated senior mash, then went to eat his hay ( I give hay 24/7) then totally unlike him, spit it out and then just nosed around in it, lifting his head looking perplexed. He went to a manure pile he had made when he came in earlier, sniffed it and considered eating IT, but no, thank G*d, then went to the back of his stall and stood there looking perplexed with his mouth (at the bars) sucked in like he’d eaten a lemon. Perhaps the med gives them dry mouth? Anyway, he was frustrated as he wanted to eat his hay but for some reason couldn’t so he became restless. Vitals were normal except his gums looked pale and could not even get a CRT because no color to begin with. It was dark in the barn, so I just attributed that my inability to correctly assess under the circumstances.

Saturday he ate mash breakfast and insisted he have the richer hay, but not really eating with gusto like he does. He did not want to drink cold water but he’s been that way in the last month or so. Gave him warm water and he drank exactly 23 sips. Called the vet that morning and the vet could not recommend anything for gastric upset, stating horses dont get nauseaous, and no reccommendation for anything I could syringe it with if he refused in his feed (powdered packets added to feed at lunch) but did say halve the dose for a few days so we will see how he does.

Idk, maybe i’ll get him some biotene to squirt in his mouth if it is a recurring problem.

[candico]

How are his poops? I would drop the rheaform completely if his runny poops have normalized. The one mare that went the longest without eating wound up with what we assume were ulcers since she immediately started eating after an injection of banamine and so we put her on ranitidine. She did not have any ulcer symptoms prior to the treatment. I don’t think the meds cause ulcers, just inappetance which in turn can lead quickly to ulcers. Again, all mine had their squits resolved after just one dose.

[bigolebay]

They were actually firming up with bio sponge–exactly at the 7 day mark! Stayed pretty good after first dose of Rheaform, then yesterday, Sunday after no bio sponge sat night, the splats were back with a vengence. Today he’s starting to firm up again. He’s tolerating the lower dose better too. On the half dose rheaform today he is still picky about the texture/taste of the hay so’ only the best’ for him he says. Worsening or new ulcers due to not eating are definitely a concern like you experienced. A year ago he had dreaded zimectrin gold reaction and recent was Dormosedan in Dec. He has had lots of classic behavioral markers for ulcers as well. Vets were unimpressed by any of that Hx since he appears to be in good condtion and normally a hoover. What you said about your mare and the banamine is similar to what I’ve experienced; saw good results on the Bio-sponge early last week but I also had to paste him with banamine 2 days out of the week due to bloat and threatening full blown colics during a warm spell. On banamine, belly relaxed, and sheath inflamation went down, he peed, less watery gas, and he was a happy camper for a day. I’ve had to use banamine (with docs approval) more than I liked over the last 3 mo while a treatment plan was formulated.

Again, thanks for the heads up. It’s scary to see them like this and hard for us to manage. You didn’t say how long yours were chronic–he may have so much damage to heal being in a hypermotile state for so long. Its going to take time but if his appetite gets worse then we will have to re-access.

[bigolebay]

Just popping in to say he did not go off his feed on the half dose. Went back to full dose Thurs night. He has not lost his appetite but, he has become very irritable, gringing/snapping his teeth at me, pawing and kicking his door unless he gets the type of hay he wants, which is a grass that has quite a bit of clover in it. The older crop orchard grass is not good enough for him. As far as behavior goes, this is extreme for him. I really think the med gives him dry mouth so he is wanting something he can taste and easy to chew. I do sprinkle handfuls on top of the orchard which satifies him briefly. He is also craving salt so I let him have his salt block while I am there. During the week, his stools have been returning to almost normal. Friday eve he had had normal stools for 24 hours! I have been continuing Bio Sponge, which I think is doing most of the work, and had discontinued the probiotic with S. Boulliardii last Monday and not going to add it back until we are done with the Rheaform. I’d love to drop the Rheaform but while were having success don’t want to change anything just yet.

[bigolebay]

Update to this ancient post…a member asked me a few questions about this recently so I think an update would be helpful to anyone dealing with a chronic diarrhea problem. In reading my old posts I’m thinking, gosh, we did have some short term success with using Rheaform and Biosponge and Bannamine. I say short term because his condition has progressed through the last few years despite efforts to resolve it without requiring surgery. last spring after some gassy colic symptoms I had further testing done–another bloodwork and Diarrhea pannel with no remarkable results. Fibrinogen had changed a little though. Anyway, had a belly tap, rectal biopsy and ultra sound. There was some protein loss, not major, not too much thickening of the intestinal wall, etc. They ended up dxi ing him with inflammatory bowel disease of the lymphocyte type but they had not found cancer cells yet. He did do a round of dex, which didn’t really help, and then added metronidazole which didn’t really help. The latter two caused significant weight loss and cushing type symptoms when he was titrated down from dex and the metro. I managed to get the weight back on through summer, as the next step was to haul him down to the hospital for xrays and maybe a scope. I had to relocate and with financial constraints was never able to get him hauled down. He did not do well this winter and is now in a rapid decline due to protein loss. It is really heartbreaking that he is no longer able to fight what is going on, and I think the damage to his gut is irrepairable so I am basically providing pallative care to keep him relatively comfortable. There are still some things I could persue, but more than likely I will be helping him over the rainbow bridge sometime during the summer if not sooner. He has been a real champ being compiant with all the things I’ve put him through to try and help him and we have grown very close due to our extra bathing and grooming sessions required with this condtition.