Rich Fellers

[BITSA]

the latter

[marginall]

if you’ve travelled with him for 10 years you know at least two people personally he had a relationship with outside his marriage.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

Just have to say, there is a big difference between having an affair outside of marriage, and preying on an underage student.

I disapprove of both, but one is much worse than the other (and only one is illegal).

[Puffergrrl]

Did you actually just say that riding THROUGH the pony ring was “questionable behavior?” Against the showground’s rules, fine, but “questionable behavior” and akin to bullying, nope.

FWIW, Karen, ask your trainer why s/he doesn’t say something to Rich if the horse is acting up and you think one of the kids is in danger or go to the office and complain yourself. Or you could try to say something to one of the stewards, though since it’s not a USEF rule, I doubt they’ll care unless, again, someone is in danger.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

Without meaning to derail the discussion of the Fellers into a more theoretical discussion, it is interesting if SafeSport requires a wife to inform on her husband (and vice versa).

I note that in criminal and civil law, there is no obligation to inform on someone else, and specifically there is a “spousal privilege”–meaning a spouse does not need to disclose something his/her spouse said. There is also a “spousal witness privilege”–one spouse cannot be forced to testify against the other in a criminal case. The principle behind these privileges is a traditional view that there is something sacrosanct about the marriage relationship, almost like a priest-penitent relationship.

It would be interesting if SafeSport has rejected these concepts and expects spouses to inform on each other.

I don’t know that requiring a wife to inform on her husband would be good policy, because it seems likely to create the potential for domestic violence.

All of that said, the reasons behind Shelley’s suspension could be something entirely different. For example, maybe she tried to discourage the victim from pursuing a complaint.

[skrosenthal]

I don’t know how spousal privilege works in the safe sport context, but my understanding is that there is an obligation that applies to all of us as competing USEF members, and indeed more broadly anyone participating in sports involving youth, to report conduct that you have knowledge of. Lots of people have strong feelings about that and whether that’s a good idea, but I can easily imagine situations in which that obligation could have been triggered here.

[LSBC]

I’m certainly not adding anything to this discussion, but I wonder if there is an obligation because (I thought) she was a trainer too? I could be totally wrong though.

[oreo_mom]

Can anyone tell me why this family did not go to the police? Certainly in this case of such egregious behavior it is an IMMEDIATE matter for the police or did she wait to age out?

[woodhillsmanhattan]

We do not know that they are not taking legal action. They very well could be.

[kenyarider]

The marital privilege can be breached under some circumstances. For example, in a spousal abuse case, or a child abuse case. So since we are all mandated reporters under Safe Sport rules, if Shelley was aware of whatever was going on, she, as a SS mandated reporter, had a duty to report. They may raise the marital privilege but the judge (decider) has the final say.

[oneequestrienne]

What I find disturbing is that every time someone is suspended or sanctioned by Safesport/USEF, people seem to need to dissect the situation. They want to know the details and, short of that, will speculate endlessly trying to figure it all out, I have been on the same side of this as Maggie. No, I didn’t go public, have her talent and it wasn’t my trainer but it was a trainer. I dealt with Safesport and watched the mob come out as well. I watched the crowd try to debate what really happened, try to identify and inevitably shame and blame the victims. Anything to avoid facing the fact that a popular BNT really was far worse than the jokes “wink, wink” people made about him. Then I watched the social media mob go after the women who were brave enough to come forward calling them liars, vengeful and sometimes even accusing them of “*****ing for ribbons”. Most of us know that for every one who has gone public, there are more behind them who did not. In my case, I know that for every woman who came forward, there are AT LEAST two more of us in the shadows.

Kudos to Maggie for her bravery, especially at such a young age. It takes many years for most survivors to be able to come forward. Let me be clear, she was under no obligation to identify herself. Safesport does not release the names of those who file a complaint to the public. The person against whom the complaint is filed is informed of the name/s of the person/s filing the complaint/s. They are not kept in the dark, which is why many like me chose not to be brave like Maggie.

Be brave like Maggie.

[mmeqcenter]

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

Isn’t it human nature to analyze and evaluate allegations? Maybe my household is odd, but with 3 college kids here, we’ve spent many lockdown evenings watching true crime shows and (for unsolved cases) debating and arguing over the likely culprit, the motive, the evidence, etc. --Given the popularity of true crime (Dateline, 20/20, 48 Hours etc.) we are not the only folks who love to play amateur detective, and I don’t think it makes us bad people.

I think the true bravery of victims like Maggie is to say: There is no reason victims of sexual wrongdoing should be cloaked in secrecy or shame… no reason they should be viewed any differently from any other victims of cruel or violent crimes.

A similar point was made by the woman who was victimized by the swimmer at Stanford. A few months ago she revealed her identity and felt empowered to take control of her own story.

I remember how impressed I was when driving with a much younger colleague a couple years ago, and she talked openly about her period. I was brought up that it was unmentionable, to be hidden and never spoken of.

I just love to see the confidence and assertiveness of young women around all these issues. I don’t think this will hurt Maggie’s future at all.

[Jenerationx]

The comments on FB blaming or shaming Maggie are horrible. People wonder why victims don’t want to come forward and sometimes don’t? That’s why. SS will investigate and either uphold or remove the suspension. We’re really not entitled to know exactly what happened, or didn’t happen. It’s not a court of law. Do workplaces where harassment or abuse happens release all the details to all their employees?

[BLBGP]

[quote]Isn’t it human nature to analyze and evaluate allegations? Maybe my household is odd, but with 3 college kids here, we’ve spent many lockdown evenings watching true crime shows and (for unsolved cases) debating and arguing over the likely culprit, the motive, the evidence, etc. --Given the popularity of true crime (Dateline, 20/20, 48 Hours etc.) we are not the only folks who love to play amateur detective, and I don’t think it makes us bad people.
[/quote]

I guess the difference is you’re debating the 20/20, Dateline, 48 Hours perpetrator’s crime and motive. People on Facebook are instead debating the victim’s, saying, basically (to keep the 20/20 comparison): Well, what did she do to get murdered? Why didn’t she report her murder to the authorities? She probably wasn’t really murdered, she’s just pretending to be murdered for attention. Horse people don’t ever murder anyone. I was never murdered, so there’s no way she was. Well, if she was murdered, she probably did it to get ribbons. And when other Safe Sport stories have been ‘debated’ on social media, there are some people who seem to deeply desire to know very specific sexual details.

[oneequestrienne]

Exactly! Thanks for putting it so succinctly.

[Bunker]

Also, I think many people believe the “popular” theory that SS does not really investigate and that you are guilty until proven innocent and that all infractions are sexual. And yes, we have no right to know the details. And just because a person is nice to you, your kid, etc does not mean he is innocent. Bravo to Maggie for having the courage to come forward.

[SadieRidingHorses]

@kenyarider is right; spousal privilege can be breached in a number of circumstances, including when the husband-wife commit a crime together. And yes, in sex crimes, spouses are often charged as co-conspirators or aiders and abettors.

[Lizrd]

What an awful situation and an act of bravery on the part of the victim to name herself. My guess is the facts will emerge over time. This next generation has courage and intelligence. We adults have a lot to learn. We can do better by our children.

Is it too early to ask if there will be an “I stand with Rich” group created? When.Does.It.End?

[anon510129]

You know this for absolute fact? Are you sure you’re not thinking of Jeff Campf?