Rich Fellers

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Per earlier comments, one of the victims of this trainer has been trying to recover her own emotional health for years, and doesn’t want to pursue action at this time. Another victim is rumored to have talk a private settlement and signed an NDA years ago, and has remained private about her experiences.

I’m as mad as the next person that this guy is not on the list… but… I also respect the victim’s rights to take care of themselves in ways that might be the right choice for them at this time… even if it’s hard for folks on the outside to understand.

From what I do understand, if SafeSport does not have the cooperation of a victim during their investigation, it’s unlikely they will be able to build a case and hand out penalties.

It’s really sad. I hope both victims are on the path to healing though, and aware that many folks do actually care about what happened and wish them well, and at least this thread might create awareness that results in parents of minor riders in the area being more protective with their kids…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@LexInVA

n case anyone didn’t know, Ceff Jampf did file a (Horse-related) defamation lawsuit back in the early 90’s, but it was dismissed. I have no idea what it was about, but it was against Trinni Jensen, who is only known to be affiliated with horse racing.

Interesting. They’ve spent QUITE a bit on legal issues over the years. They obviously have built a successful business… but it kind of baffles me that they have available cash for some of the rumored settlements, and lawsuits that failed. People eat serious legal fees when lawsuits go nowhere like this…

[short_strided]

I filed a report. If no one wants to talk that is their prerogative.

[hoopoe]

Thank you!

[make_the_time]

@FitzE… very well said. Needed to be said. Thx. I would add something which applies to this situation: the appearance of impropriety IS impropriety. This means that people in positions of power like that have to behave in a way which makes it crystal clear there are no moral, ethical or legal issues.

To take a shot at answering your question: why should these people be any different from other professionals? I would say of course they should not. So, why are they treated differently? Perhaps this has to do with “the celebrity factor”. Social celebrities are often given a pass on things which mere mortals are not. People are so excited to breathe the same air as the celebrity, they are willing to overlook failures of staggering proportions. Our equestrian world is well known for “star worship”. Combine that with a little “herd mentality” and it’s not surprising at all that a set of people will give a pass to someone. (Note this is an explanation, not a justification.)

[LSBC]

I wonder if one of the reasons that people are whining, and I think I saw this earlier in the thread (or somewhere) so excuse me if I am repeating someone else, is that there are not a lot of equine professionals with a college degree, or a business degree, or anything to fall back on. That is what makes me so exceptionally nervous about this industry. There are professionals who are so corrupt, but at the same time nobody has taught them to run a successful and moral business. I’m not excusing them, because surely they should know better, but I also don’t think that whatever special business skills they learned in the equestrian world would transfer over to any other type of business or industry.

I don’t mean this to degrade trainers or barn owners or people who have made this industry their lives, but I often think about the people I know and wonder what they would do if they couldn’t ride or train anymore. For some it is easy. They have degrees in other fields, but those are the people I know who run the most moral and correct businesses. Then there are people who are making great money off this industry, but they’re skirting the rules and not being honest. One of my trainers once told me that if you’re doing very well in the horse business, you might not be doing it honestly. I am sure there are exceptions to this, and I don’t mean to offend anyone.

It makes sense in my head though, that if all you know is riding and training what transferrable skills do you have to another industry when you have already been proven irresponsible or convicted of a crime? Technically their lives are ruined - but I would think they deserved it! They did the wrong thing.

[Bogie]

@LSBC

here are not a lot of equine professionals with a college degree, or a business degree, or anything to fall back on. That is what makes me so exceptionally nervous about this industry. There are professionals who are so corrupt, but at the same time nobody has taught them to run a successful and moral business. I’m not excusing them, because surely they should know better, but I also don’t think that whatever special business skills they learned in the equestrian world would transfer over to any other type of business or industry.

And this is why every time a young person comes on asking if they should turn pro, the overwhelming response is that they should go to college, learn some business skills and get a degree. The “I don’t know how to do anything else” excuse, is pretty thin.

[Scribbler]

@short_strided

Yes, the argument that SS didn’t exist when these crimes were committed is ridiculous because these actions have been crimes for at least 40 to 50 years, or longer.

Even if you haven’t signed on to SS you are still bound by the actual laws of the country.

[poltroon]

@LSBC

I wonder if one of the reasons that people are whining, and I think I saw this earlier in the thread (or somewhere) so excuse me if I am repeating someone else, is that there are not a lot of equine professionals with a college degree, or a business degree, or anything to fall back on. That is what makes me so exceptionally nervous about this industry. There are professionals who are so corrupt, but at the same time nobody has taught them to run a successful and moral business. I’m not excusing them, because surely they should know better, but I also don’t think that whatever special business skills they learned in the equestrian world would transfer over to any other type of business or industry.

This lack has been a real problem in the horse industry pretty much forever. Too many horsemen are trained only by one or two people who mentored them, who in turn were trained only by one or two people who mentored them. None of them have been exposed to professional standards that are expected in other lines of business, none of them had ethics training, none of them learned labor law except occasionally the hard way. None of them get professional exposure to not-horse people, or training in race relations or sexual harassment. They have no experience working in a real workplace.

Now add that to an industry where cash flow is a problem and live animals and their needs and preferences may be the difference between you having money for the rent or not.

Business training is good; I also think there’s value for anyone who is going to teach riders to have some outside training on the theory of training and pedagogy for people. A long time ago, I was chatting with Jane Bartle-Wilson (from the UK) and we talked about how when she became one of the official UK Team coaches that she was exposed to some coaching training that was generalized across all the Olympic sports, and how valuable she found it. And that’s someone who grew up in the very formal BHS system that already provides far more training than any US trainer typically can access.

[2bayboys]

@poltroon I agree wholeheartedly that professionals in the industry would benefit greatly from education related to business norms and ethics. But does it really need to be explained to coaches and trainers that it is wrong to have sex with their underage clients?

Apparently so.

[Ghazzu]

When I helped design an equine studies concentration, I urged the inclusion of a great deal of “business” content, including basic accounting, law pertaining to the horse industry, personnel management, and general business management.

[Scribbler]

Yes, that’s great stuff for an equine studies program.

But all the best advice on COTH says that if you want to be BNT you need to get out and win as a junior, stay ahead of the crowd, get to the top of the sport, apprentice, etc.

Thinking about it, perhaps what happens is this. Rider moves up the ranks through single focus, very strong competitive drive, and often enough a bit of bending of the rules in training. Emerges as a local star in a tiny world that rewards a certain kind of ego. Goes into training as essentially a self employed small businessman. No oversight, no boss, no team, and no education. Plus don’t discount multiple brain injuries that do a number on impulse control.

I expect that such a person would come to feel as if they were the untouchable ruler of their tiny domain. They would also attract and retain clients who were susceptible to playing along with this. Other clients would drift away, or avoid altogether.

Such a person may also engage in doping, questionable training practices, fraudulent sales, general shady horse dealing, substance abuse, etc, and feel like they are basically above the law or outside the law because of their Special Talent etc. And in addition have never worked outside the wierd hobby sport of riding.

I wonder if the fact that you can bully and dominate horses and feel powerful through that adds to it.

I think most men are not going to assault young girls or boys, so the Above the Law attitude could come out in other ways, like electric spurs or doping or skimming cash off horse sales. But for those that are inclined it’s possible that assaulting their young students and workers is similarly excused.

These are the trainers that don’t do an equine studies degree because they are already riding pro and WS for an ex-Olympian etc at age 20.

Anyhow, inflated ego in a tiny world with no oversight is a recipe to bring out the worst in everyone. Obviously not everyone has a worst side. But enough.

[Highflyer1]

I don’t think you need an equine studies degree. You need practical experience plus business/accounting/management classes which you can get online or from a community college for a lot less than an equine studies degree.

[poltroon]

@2bayboys

@poltroon I agree wholeheartedly that professionals in the industry would benefit greatly from education related to business norms and ethics. But does it really need to be explained to coaches and trainers that it is wrong to have sex with their underage clients?

Apparently so.

The people who taught them did it. When were they to learn otherwise?

I’m partly facetious, but also partly not. They learned how you behave in the world from the person they worked for, and they copied them. In every way. Not just on how you buckle a bridle or bill the student for a horse show or conduct yourself in a lesson but also where and how you collect a sexual partner.

Yes, they should have learned better somewhere.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Truth.

[skydy]

@Knights_Mom

USEF already runs a background check on any current or potential licensed official.

Trainers are not necessarily licensed officials, some are, most are not. Fellers is not a licensed official.

[FitzE]

All very on point. However, the one thing I’ll disagree with is this: not having a college/grad degree doesn’t necessarily make them more vulnerable to this situation. A person who has slogged through and PAID FOR 4 years of an undergrad degree and then 3-4 more year of post-graduate study is arguable in a WORSE position when they get the boot.

Not only are they VERY specialized, they may have crushing edu debt to meet.

Just taking me for an example: 3 years Oxbridge (blissfully affordable thanks to my passport, but not nothing); 2 years US Ivy room and board (eye-wateringly expensive); 3 years US top ten law school (breathtakingly expensive but lucky to get a really good scholarship). I graduated US law school with modest debt compared to many of my friends (and my husband) who graduated with six-figure debt.

If many doctors/lawyers/other professionals with degrees and advanced degrees lose their professional standing, they have two strikes against them: (i) highly specialised training which may not transfer to a new profession; and (ii) crippling debt that they took on with the expectation of the kind of remuneration they could command for those expensive degrees. Plus, a horse trainer looking for a new income-generating position can spin a tale of why they no longer train horses/riders. A doctor or lawyer switching careers has to come clean about why they are no longer practicing medicine/law.

So, I don’t pity the horse professional more than any other professional who loses their ability to practice. At least these horse professionals you reference don’t have massive student debt on top of everything else if they haven’t any degrees.

But, the overarching point has been made above by @Scribbler: RF, SF, GM, etc. aren’t in their current positions b/c they lack higher education or business savvy: it’s b/c they violated CRIMINAL LAW and raped minors/didn’t report the rape of minors which is just plain old vanilla criminal activity that every adult knows, is f(*#ed up, illegally & morally repulsive, depraved, and reprehensible.

No one needs any degree or special training or mentoring to know: you don’t groom and rape minors. And you don’t know your husband/partner is doing so and not report it when you are a mandated reporter. You need only be a de minimus decent human being to know that much. These people are morally and ethically bankrupt and should be punished to the full extent not only of the law but also of the powers available to the governing body of their profession.

[Scribbler]

I agree that the fact you don’t rape minors is common knowledge in our society. You don’t need a university degree to understand that. Indeed, until universities started making it a firing offence, some male professors were extremely predatory with their students, who weren’t minors but were emotionally and intellectually very vulnerable.

What male professors in the 1970s had in common with these trainers was being in a position to manipulate young people who looked up to them. And a situation where there was very little oversight of their day to day work and interactions. There’s more oversight now on campuses, but still none in the small business model of the trainer who runs his own barn his own way.

[skydy]

Yes, and very well educated people continue to prey upon young people, as do high school drop outs or people that didn’t or couldn’t pursue a degree.

It is a societal problem across all segments of our society, sometimes more and better hidden in the upper income levels.

We’d better get to taking it seriously now. Safe Sport is a start.

[FitzE]

Yes, this again points out the difference here: the employer is holding the perp responsible, just like the governing body does for other professions. That’s why we need FEI, USEF, and all the other entities to do so in the horse world. There are still people who want to work with disbarred lawyers or their favourite doctor who lost his license, but they can’t b/c those oversight frameworks work to keep those violators out of the industry post-violation.

And, as @skydy notes, educated people prey on minors so education doesn’t fix the situation.