Re: why horse pros lack the common sense and common decency to, yanno, not rape children whose parents are paying them for non-assaulting and not morally repugnant services:
There are a couple of huge differences between someone who is self-employed and who has a single employer. No oversight is a huge one, with or without a good HR department and things like SafeSport. But the other issue is that each client is just a portion of their income. So what i you piss off one client and they leave? You still have the other 18 or 45 of whatever paying customers. And so long as they donât leave en masse, you can keep on keeping on.
I know you are a lawyer, and you have made so many excellent points on this thread (as have several other lawyers who have followed it and commented⊠you all contribute a great deal of insight to these SafeSport discussions).
On the legal side though, I continue to be BAFFLED by people within the industry and people at USEF, and how they are ignoring the writing on the wall.
Look at what has happened with USA Gymnastics, and revelations about a dysfunctional governing body that colluded to cover up abuse allegations for YEARS. We clearly have some parallels with USEF, and certain open secrets in the sport existing for YEARS, and so many people turning a blind eye to it⊠though hopefully not to such an appalling extent as was the case with USA Gymnastics.
When it comes to college professors engaging in sexual relationships with students⊠they get fired by their employer - the college or university- for 2 reasons:
That behavior is unethical
The college or university doesnât want to get sued in the aftermath
Some smart SafeSport critics I follow on Twitter (theyâre mostly lawyers specializing in this general area of practice) make the argument that the primary reason SafeSport was created was to be a liability shield of sorts for the various NGOs. Everyone KNOWS that the sexual abuse problems with coaches and minor athletes with dreams of going to the Olympics is a MAJOR PROBLEM. Itâs really stunning in scope⊠the number of sports with big name coaches who have engaged in this behavior, and how it has gone on for years and years.
But we still have coaches and pros in our own sport who line up to support accused people, talk about âwitch huntsâ, and we still have a governing body that seems to have a few key people who are part of the whole ISWG/SafeSport is a Witch Hunt crowd holding influential positions.
At some point, lawsuits are going to be leveled against USEF itself. Iâm not a lawyer⊠but it sure seems like a significant risk at this point. I can only speak for myself as a parent⊠and my family has considerably less in the way of means than some of these other families who have/had teenaged daughters participating in high end competition programs out west, and trying to pursue top levels of the sport and do A circuit shows⊠but if I had the money to chase those sorts of competition dreams, and I had a teen daughter who was harmed by one of these coaches who has engaged in a barely secret pattern of this sort of behavior for yearsâŠ
Iâd certainly be paying top dollar to the best attorneys I could find, and thoroughly evaluating ALL options when it comes to suing the hell out of anyone/everyone who played a part in my child being abused.
When we talk about how âignorantâ some of these professionals in the industry are⊠I actually think in terms of the last few paragraphs I just wrote. Even though these people rely upon successful upper class people to fund their businesses⊠and frankly USEF relies upon people of means to prop up the entire sport in key ways⊠some people seem to remain bizarrely arrogant, and unconcerned about the risks involved in âbiting the handâ that feeds them all, so to speak. People who have held jobs in corporate America, or worked in consulting or other fields, well⊠some of us have a tad bit more respect for the importance of treating clients in an ethical and legal manner. It isnât just a matter of retaining clients⊠itâs also a matter of not getting the living snot sued out of you⊠People with big money can afford to hire great lawyers⊠and if you piss them off enough, that is what many do. And when legal battles ensue with very angry, very rich people⊠they can eventually result in pyrrhic victories. Pros in the sport and USEF canât afford to get into those sorts of fights. Yet they donât seem to quite see the risk staring them all in the faceâŠ
You know what else I was unaware of? Alan Balch is the current president of USA Equestrian Trust. Heâs a past president of Flintridge Riding Club⊠and his time overlapped with Jimmy Williams significantly.
Iâm no lawyer⊠but if I was, and I was researching applicable precedent, Iâd be looking at how Steve Pennyâs conduct with respect to ignoring complaints regarding specific abusers and the ongoing sexual abuse of gymnasts over a period of years played a significant part in exposing USA Gymnastics to additional liability with respect to ongoing litigation. That whole situation is in the process of bankrupting USA Gymnastics. One would think that MAYBE⊠just MAYBE⊠itâs not very wise to have Balch serving in the role of President of the USA Equestrian TrustâŠ
I realized how bad things were when I read George Morrisâ last book. The things written in that book - his own admissions - are so vile and repugnant he should have been tossed on his ass just from that. In that book he describes (basically in fond Yilo Yiannopoulos tradition) his being defrocked at the age of 16 in a hotel during a hurricane by a leading internationally respected horseman, his doing the same in later years, rapping horses, breaking the limbs of student riders just to show them a lesson and other heinous acts. Iâm not surprised so many flocked to his defense later on.
The equestrian culture is disgustingly ripe with learned behaviors of never questioning famous people for abuse - whether it be of children, horses or customers.
An organization that cannot or will not right itâs own wrongs (many who condone run the damn thing) maybe needs to be dismantled and a new organization take over. Not only that but it can be well argued it is needed on both national and international levels.
Thatâs super gross. If you think someone did something wrong enough that you would divorce them, then do so. Sheâs a mandated reporter who didnât report her husbandâs crimes. She should be banned for life for that alone, forget what she does or doesnât testify about.
He should be out based on his crime and violating SS, and thus USEF, rules; she should be out for violating SS rules by not reporting the rape of a minor. Both, of course, should be banned permanently. Anyone who will work with them thereafter should also be banned (like that Plum whatever farm that had a GM clinic last year).
Consistent application of the rules is the only way to handle all this. Ban the people who ran the GM clinic and you provide a decent deterrent for the next miscreant thinking of running a GM clinic.
Itâs in her best interest to hold off on divorcing him until the courts are done with him, so that she can take him to the cleaners. She can also use what she knows against him in court, so she can leverage that against him to get a good divorce settlement. As she is (technically) not his business partner - despite what the social media and stabling banners say, his previous wife, Michelle Fellers, is on the books as his business partner - she is in a better position to walk away from it with some assets. Coincidentally, Michelle may also be called to testify against her former husband, and sheâs probably got something to say, given how close to him she remained to him after he picked up Shelley, though her involvement with him over the past few years seems to be minimal, starting around the time Safesport came into being.
If sexual predators donât think what they are doing is wrong, then why do they go to such great lengths to hid their activities, to do it in secret, to threaten/intimidate their âtargetsâ, and then to lie about it when they get caught?
They all know it is WRONG - no matter their level of formal education.
I noticed how much less the bail amount of $40,000 was set in this case; compared to what I see set here. Iâm in a different state and county but child pornography cases seem to have at least $200,000 bail amounts here. Cases involving actual molestation of children have bail amounts set much higher than that.
Seems like the local county, here where I am currently residing, is extra tough on these types of cases. That is my observation based upon bail amounts, which are enough to keep most those accused, in jail until their trials. Definitely, higher bails here than baseline amounts set by the state. Could be the local county DA is extra tough on these types of cases?
Bail is basically stupid anyway. Either the person is a flight risk, or a risk to safety, while awaiting trial, or they arenât; having $4k or $20k for a bail bond doesnât actually make you less guilty or less dangerous to the community.
I put my OREOS through the food processor when I use them for cheescake crust, so all the creamy whiteness is thoroughly intermingled with the dark deliciousness of the cookie.
I have a hammer I reserve for pounding the OREOS used in the batter.
I think this varies a lot by jurisdiction. Keeping people in jail for 3 years until trial is expensive. You can accomplish the same thing by sending someone home with an ankle bracelet.
I also think honestly that the objective risk to the public is different in the case of a random attacker versus someone in RFâs situation.
In his case I think it would be enough to have conditions limiting his contact with young people and some kind of monitoring system. Heâs not going to hacksaw off his ankle bracelet, drive to the mall, abduct a child, lead the police on a wild car chase and then a big shoot out and suicide. He should be kept away from his current young students since he may well be grooming someone else.
He is neither rich and international enough nor poor and anonymous enough to be a true flight risk.
Thank goodness someone sees the humor in all of this.
Youâve always had the means to stop this behavior!
Everyone needs to stop being so damn self righteous and get it taken care of!
I imagine the higher bail amounts here are set to protect the minor victims, since most seem to have occurred within their current households?
I donât see how an ankle monitor would be effective, allowing an accused perpetrator back into the same household, where the alleged crimes were committed?
Apparently, most of the sexual molestation cases, occur within the households or extended friends/family situations. At least around here.
Perhaps, in this case, the judge felt fairly confident, the victim was already safe? Thus the lower bail? StillâŠ
People with big money can afford to hire great lawyers⊠and if you piss them off enough, that is what many do. And when legal battles ensue with very angry, very rich people⊠they can eventually result in pyrrhic victories. Pros in the sport and USEF canât afford to get into those sorts of fights. Yet they donât seem to quite see the risk staring them all in the faceâŠ
