You are right; that was actually quite disturbing.
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I know of some male trainers who, in the past, have spoken openly about their ability to tell when one of their riders has become sexually active and what changes they see in that personās riding when that happens. In those situations, there was no indication that the trainer wanted to do anything to/with the student.
Is it appropriate to talk about such things? No. But I hope that this case was similar and that she got a feeling that this man was not intending to act in a way that would endanger his student, but wanted to help him understand how what he said and his approach were wrong.
I saw 2 posts from her about counselingā¦ and was unsure if she was referring to only the trainer who had made a BIZARRELY crass comment, or if she was referring to counseling for an actual perpetrator from her past as well.
I also had mixed feelings about both posts. Butā¦ I respect her decision to try and be an active part of a solution. And to try and find her own way through the present moment.
When I think of dealing with sexual abuse and assault in a sport community, school setting, workplace, etcā¦ the analogy about wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs comes to mind. Iāve been a sheep at certain times in my life, especially when I was a child (because all children are vulnerable lambs on some level, and deserve protection)ā¦ but also later as a young adult. When I became a mother, my inner sheepdog woke up, with a vengeance. Mature healthy adults have a choice to make when they participate in communities where there is a mix of ages and power positionsā¦ be it sporting communities, workplace communities, school communities, etc. I respect people who do their best to try and be a good sheepdog. Some actions and styles and choices may be more effective and appropriate than othersā¦ but bottom line, the fundamental choice to step up and be someone who tries to make a community safer for the vulnerable amongst us all? Thatās a good thing.
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This goes beyond inappropriate. Itās hard to even know where to start with this.
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You know more than one male trainer who has said this?! WTAF?! Who the hell are these people? One is too many, but youāre saying you personally know/know of āsomeā, i.e., more than one, man in a position of coaching minors, who has said this out loud? Iām genuinely floored.
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This is 100% their perceived ability (i.e., it is not real, they donāt actually know anything they werenāt told first-hand by the person in question) and is utterly irrelevant to anything they were being paid to do.
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The fact that they speculate in this way about the minors under their care and instruction is repulsive and indicative of a serious problem with these individuals.
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The fact that they felt comfortable discussing this crosses so many lines that it wasnāt even necessary for them to indicate that they wanted to ādo anything to/with the studentā. Articulating that they look for and notice this is enough - is actionable - without any doubt whatsoever.
Iām sorry, this is completely insane. How is this even remotely allowed to happen unchallenged?
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What FitzE said. A male coach speculating about teenaged girls or young women that way? GROSS.
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But itās more than gross. We have to stop acting as though itās just ālocker room talkā or inappropriate or whatever. These people are telling others - broadcasting - that they are people of interest. What more do we need to look for than grown men speculating on the sexual experience of minors in their charge? These men describe that they routinely look for and notice some āchangeā that they are making up. They then take it further and articulate āchanges they see in that personās ridingā.
What the actual hell is going on here? This, in and of itself, it reportable.
Iām sorry, Iām tired of excusing people who let themselves off the hook for listening to this stuff and not acting on it. That means KMSFH: she frames it, and @Night_Flight further supports this, as though she did a good thing; that she was part of the solution here. Her taking time to talk to and counsel this man about what he said.
No, actually, thatās not part of the solution. Part of the solution would have been: As a member of [insert organization], having heard you speak that way about a minor with respect to whom you are in a position of power, I must report what you said to the proper authorities and your studentsā parents. I hope you get counseling that will allow you to fully understand what you just said and why it is not only outrageously inappropriate, but actually damaging in and of itself. It is damaging to the minor about whom you made it and it is damaging to me as the person you said it to as I also find it threatening and predatory and I am not comfortable around you any longer.
Thatās how you become part of the solution.
I donāt know about @Night_Flight - maybe you were also a minor when you knew of these men and what they were saying, thinking, and speculating about their minor clients? But, if you were an adult, you had the duty to have said something to them and also reported them, to the minorās parents if not to the sporting authorities.
Yes, it sucks big time to have to confront someone you know or work with or who has power over you even as an adult. It sucks to take your warm up time and your time at that competition and turn it into a complete sh*t show while you put the person displaying predatory behaviour on notice that what he is saying is a violation and you now need to pursue it. And it sucks to have to go pursue it. It all really, genuinely sucks and is all the fault of the person displaying predatory behaviour, not you. But, you still have to do it. And, if this KMSFH is a member of USEF, etc., then she was required to do so.
But you know what sucks orders of magnitude more: the experience of the kids on whom these men prey b/c no adult has put their foot down and said, right, weāre done here, you cannot speak or even think like that and maintain access to minors; Iām reporting you now.
I know the feeling of hearing this crap and wanting to just fade away and not get involved. I know itās easier to say you didnāt think (not that you didnāt know, mind) they indicated any intentions towards the minorās whom they were openly observing and speculating about regarding the minorās sexual activeness. Let that sink in: more than one coach who actively monitored and noted when they felt their students had become sexually active and what changes they then fantasized they saw in that studentās riding. That is beyond (*&^%ed up, folks.
And to any adult who listens to a man say the kind of things noted here and does nothing, or has a nice, long, private talk with them to help them sort out their feelings: Stop telling yourself you are part of the solution; you arenāt. You either turned away and later discussed it on Facebook or a BB or you provided a safe space for that man to say that stuff about kids and not feel awful about himself. Thatās all you did.
This probably comes off as harsh but I think we all might need to burn through a time when harsh and uncomfortable things need to be said so we can all move on to a phase where when we hear something, we say something, and if it rises to a certain level, we report that something/someone. Thatās the only way out of this that I can see.
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This probably would have been when I was in my late teens, and it would have been around 15 to 20 years ago. I sincerely hope that what I overheard was not something that is common, and that those people no longer speak or think in that way.
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I remember when a group of male trainers were standing around at a horse show and voted a friend of mine the trainer with the best looking students. These were lovely young girls, all juniors. I thought that was gross and repugnant. Compared to all this??? It was nothing.
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Thatās my point: it is something. Itās all something. Imagine it as a āsomethingā spectrum. What those men were doing was on that spectrum. The fact that they felt comfortable enough and untouchable enough to say it out loud suggests that it wasnāt the only something they were thinking/saying/doing.
Just because it wasnāt as bad as other, worse behaviour doesnāt mean itās correct or helpful in any way to call it nothing. It was most assuredly not nothing. Lesser crimes arenāt no crime at all just because they arenāt murder in the first.
The whole point is that it is all something and we need to confront all of it, not just the really egregious acts that come to light AFTER a child has been harmed.
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Ugh, sorry you were exposed to that kind of talk so young. Iām really sorry that happened.
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I can remember the pro riders at my teen-age-years barn assigning number rankings of attractiveness to the young women (ranging from 14-17). We idolized those riders . . .
And then there was the trainer who talked about how you need to F$%# the saddle to get the rhythm of the canter. Of course, I had no idea what he meant at that time.
Not a RG victim but she knows many of them personally,
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So much this.
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The trial will begin on April 12th, 2022, unless Richard Fellers agrees to plead guilty by April 1st, likely in exchange for a reduced sentence of prison time.
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This is the gal that made allegations against Mrs Fellers
And???
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She apparently has social ties to the Kehrings, so itās understandable that she would have complained, if threatened by Richard Fellersā wife or being present/informed of such a threat against Maggie or someone else. I donāt think that she has any ties to the Fellers beyond that. Nothing controversial there.
The actual ātiesā she has to the situation was that she was Chris Fellers (Rich and Shelleyās son) girlfriend for 2 years. That is why she is involved with the case as she was obviously around them all during the relationship.
I have a strong suspicion that you are Shelley Fellers. You have only been posting about this case and not in support of the victim. You really only bringing up Shelley. Shelley has been known to be making fake accounts on instagram etc and Shelleyās mother was named ELLEN.
You seem to know about the details of this case, but only posting one side. As stated, Isabelle was chrisā girlfriend and it makes sense that shelley would have gone after her to keep quiet after they broke up.
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And this story is relevant to the case against the Fellers exactly how?
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