Rich Fellers

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

One of the under-discussed challenges with abuse like this in sport is the long term, retraumatization dynamics that are happening as we speak, when abusers continually evade accountability.

When prolific abusers who are coaches, or top tier professionals, are allowed to continue on in sport for years and years with no meaningful consequences… inevitably some of their victims grow up, become serious competitors or professionals themselves… and in so doing… find that they must see their abuser out at competitions over and over.

This can be an incredibly painful and stressful thing for survivors.

The arguments that so many people have made about how, “Oh, that bad behavior took place a long time ago, he’s reformed now, and everyone should just shut up and move on,” … those arguments completely ignore what it is like for survivors to have to face their abusers over and over again, just because the survivors wish to continue participating in a sport they love.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for these survivors who did not give up on competing, regardless of enduring years of retraumatization. That requires a ton of strength and dedication. I hope that they can experience some healing and better days going forward. The sport is better off keeping the survivors as part of the broader community, and shutting out the abusers entirely.

[McGurk]

In one of the stories on the website, the woman went through a trial twice before her abuser was convicted. The jury in the first go round thought that the evidence was circumstanstial, and the fact that she sent the abuser greeting cards after the abuse suspicious. (The abuser was her step-grandfather, and the victim was trying to preserve the family dynamic.)

OMG, to go through that twice. The victim shaming and blaming.

That is an amazingly strong woman.

PS - the other part of that story for me that was triggering is that she was an adult when someone asked her if anything had happened, because other family members were coming forward. In my own case, when people asked why I hadn’t said anything before and why I was saying something now, my answer “No one ever asked; no one ever wanted to hear the answer.” Everyone suspected, no one said anything, and NO ONE ever asked the direct question, not until years later when the abuser was dead.

I can’t tell you how important it is simply to ask the question; and ask it in a way that indicates you’re willing to hear the answer.

[CPL713]

Yes! And it’s the reason a lot of people get in to conspiracy theories, especially in times of major turmoil. People can’t accept that horrible things just happen sometimes – they seek an explanation that points to some larger, nefarious force at work.

[BITSA]

I agree. Those arguments also ignore that this type of abuse at a young age almost always negatively impacts the survivor for her life time in many areas of her life.

[mvp]

Did she switch sides? I thought that in a previous sexual abuse thing, she defended the accused? Am I misremembering?

Not to say that you can’t believe one person to be innocent and another guilty based on what you know. But how do you make a policy statement that contradicts your last one? Or does that mean women deserved support unless they accuse a particular person?

[EmilyM]

@mvp She had spoken out against the abusers. I believe she was threatened when she supported Hillary Ridland if i recall correctly.

[mvp]

@EmilyM

@mvp She had spoken out against the abusers. I believe she was threatened when she supported Hillary Ridland if i recall correctly.

Oh, good. I was hoping I had remembered wrong.

It just seems so obvious to me which on is the right side of history that I get impatient with those who choose the other side.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I think you might be misremembering.

KMSFH has been super active on FB for the last ten days, speaking out about abuse in the HJ community on the west coast, her own experiences in the sport over several decades, and SafeSport in general, both the positive aspects, and its limitations. Her public posts are really forthright, and insightful.

As far as her history goes, she was a key voice to speak out in the wake of RG’s death. She struck a balance at the time… and was forthright about what he was banned for, and she was squarely on the side of the victims
… but she still managed to speak from the perspective of someone who had known him a long time, and been friends with him in the past. I thought her voice was incredibly human… and the situation was really sad. She was a unique public voice at that time, acknowledging the emotional complexity of reckoning with this sort of abuse in a sport when there are perpetrators with deep ties to the community, who have been behaving this way in private for decades. It’s incredibly hard.

She also has been incredibly supportive of the younger generation who has stepped forward recently… Maggie and Kendall.

One of her recent posts about ten days ago detailed a really tough & ugly dynamic that definitely is a feature of certain recent public cases…. the ‘enabler’ aspect of some of this abuse. It’s now VERY public that Shelly Fellers played an active role in enabling and covering up for her husband. She is not unique though. KMSFH posted about this dynamic in detail… and it’s a post worth reading. Parents and young women getting involved in sport
can be lulled into a false sense of security because someone is married, or has a longtime partner… and incorrectly assume that there is a lower risk of abuse. But recent cases reveal that sometimes the opposite is true… and abuse by married men is a very real risk

Anyway… just some key background. There’s definitely a lot going on right now, and it sure seems like another major ban will be coming down the pike any day…

[mvp]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I think you might be misremembering.

KMSFH has been super active on FB for the last ten days, speaking out about abuse in the HJ community on the west coast, her own experiences in the sport over several decades, and SafeSport in general, both the positive aspects, and its limitations. Her public posts are really forthright, and insightful.

I was thinking of stuff she posted much longer ago, maybe around Rob Gage? I thought she was (inappropriately) unhappy with SafeSport?

[BLBGP]

I think you may be be thinking of someone else. Vanessa Brown maybe? There were quite a few very vocal and very unkind people when that happened.

[Bogie]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

KMSFH posted about this dynamic in detail… and it’s a post worth reading. Parents and young women getting involved in sport
can be lulled into a false sense of security because someone is married, or has a longtime partner… and incorrectly assume that there is a lower risk of abuse. But recent cases reveal that sometimes the opposite is true… and abuse by married men is a very real risk

Where is this posted?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

On her public Facebook Page. The post I am referencing is from Sept. 21.

ETA… here’s a copy and paste of her post for those who have asked about it, but aren’t on FB…

“ SADLY things in our West Coast horse show World are coming to a head , long buried rumors and whispers are being discussed in the open , FINALLY. The MEN , are all so similiar. They are definitely a “type”. They have a specific disease, perpetrated and nurtured by their female partners.

THEY HAVE IN COMMON :

1. man with permanent residence where he operates a horse buisness , so his victims unknowingly come to him , horses are the bait , he can lay in wait , fresh meat arrives often , makes his hunting easy
2. they each have WOMEN supporting them , knowing the behavior, in fact barely looking the other way, partially condoning the behavior , because these women are CLIENTS , or employees of their buisness , buying horses from them or working for them at a cheap rate or even a “lucky” working student , or a young European girl on a tourist visa excited to be in the USA and work with horses (who finds herself virtually trapped with a monster in the house on the farm)
3. these men use the same lingo with each mark , and if successful with their attempts, they keep records of texts, videos, emails to use against their prey to shift guilt and to present to their “good woman” as proof and to greater intimidate their latest mark
4. they behave with an arrogant flare , like a stallion who has a herd of mares , they intimidate their victims to keep them quiet
5. their WOMAN knows !!! and she continues to cover for them , pretend all is well and in general look upon the women being victimized as the villain , all while she spends their money

Personally , I can tell you that one of these men admitted to me that , in his own words; “I was a predator when I was younger”
From what I witnessed, age has not changed the character of the man nor have the years changed the unwaivering financial support of his wife and family who enable him to keep his lair open and functioning .

I think the hardest part to stomach is the “good woman” standing by her man or son SUPPORTING and encouraging this behavior. These are NOT “good women”. They are evil , perhaps more evil than the men, because without the women facilitating the man’s existence at the farm, he would have no trap for the victims to walk into.

In each case , the men would not be able to use their position as breeder, coach, rider, trainer at these facilities without these “good women” by their side keeping things together.
The sickness runs deep.

I do not feel sad for these “good women” who have stood by their man, and continue to stand by him, while lives /mentally and emotionally have been and are destroyed. These women allow, condone , and support these men. It’s disgusting!

On a greater level , in the World, we see this in the news - where a husband and wife kidnap a girl together , often holding the victim hostage for years for his pleasure.
One such case , recently was in Northern Califorinia, another case garnering national headlines , in Utah .
CLOSE TO HOME, figuratively speaking. These two women ARE IN JAIL

Gislane Maxwell awaits trial , IN JAIL

it is real

In the cases I bring up from the West Coast horse World , so far only one of these “good” women has been called out, and is currently and finally being held accountable for her actions, to the point that during her arbitration , her actions were found so heinous by investigators that TWO YEARS were added to her sentence. Little consolation, as the victims of her husband will suffer emotionally far longer.

As she looks upon his actions as a “simple infidelity”, the targets of his actions, and I speak for them , do not find the situation simple at all .

Until the rest of the “good women” pay for their part in helping to creating the drag net for these unwitting women - who enter the breeding farm in LA - the stable in wine country who’s location is like no other - or the the two farther north where you can train with a grand prix rider ….

BEWARE!!!

Consider and imagine there is a giant yellow WARNING CAUTION SIGN on the entrance gates

You may be able to navigate the shark infested waters if you know the predators are , and know that their women are chumming the waters for them !”

[RND]

@mvp

I was thinking of stuff she posted much longer ago, maybe around Rob Gage? I thought she was (inappropriately) unhappy with SafeSport?

I thought she was one of Rob Gage’s victims and spoke about it publicly at one of the FL circuits. Maybe that was someone else though.

[Arlomine]

Out of the HJ loop. Who wrote this? I agree completely.

[jvanrens]

@Arlomine

Out of the HJ loop. Who wrote this? I agree completely.

Kristin Medall Simpson-Ferguson Hardin. It’s on her Facebook.

[FitzE]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

In each case , the men would not be able to use their position as breeder, coach, rider, trainer at these facilities without these “good women” by their side keeping things together. [quoting KMSFH’s public post of 21 Sept 2021]

While I applaud her support of victims/targets of abuse, to me her language and certain points she makes are really problematic.

• Don’t ever call human beings, especially potential rape victims, “fresh meat”. I get that she has a colourful style, but it is important not to centre herself and her flair for the dramatic in her message of support. That “fresh meat” kind of language is really toxic and she should not perpetuate it for effect.

• The quote above (sorry, it looks like its from VAmom even though she’s quoting someone else) is a major red flag to me. NO ONE should be more responsible for abuse than the abuser themselves. I get her point that the wives/family/girlfriends/female staff of abusers often condone and even assist/facilitate the abuse, but to put the responsibility on them that if they weren’t there the abuser would not be abusing is absurd. Men abuse people all the time, every day, without a partner’s help, just like men with female partners do. It might seem nit picky, but it’s really important to ALWAYS clearly put the burden directly on the abuser. His enablers should then be singled out and held accountable for enabling, which is disgusting and criminal, and they should be punished/jailed for it. But, no one is suggesting that JE could not have operated without Ghislaine; just that it was easier for him with her support.

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

the targets of his actions, and I speak for them , [quoting KMSFH’s public post of 21 Sept 2021]

Unless you are speaking directly on behalf of a victim or several victims at their request, do not claim this. Again, this is weirdly centring herself in other people’s trauma.

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

They are evil , perhaps more evil than the men, because without the women facilitating the man’s existence at the farm, he would have no trap for the victims to walk into. [quoting KMSFH’s public post of 21 Sept 2021]

Again, this is toxic nonsense. Some of the women in these positions were themselves former targets, groomed and manipulated into their current place. Yes, they should get help and not let it happen to others. But to suggest that a woman associated with the predator is “more evil” than the man raping children is breathtakingly toxic framing of the situation.

Finally, her constant use of “their women” is such jarring, archaic language, especially in the context of support for women. Women used to be referred to this way, particularly in legal and LE situations, as a vestige of the times when women were chattel property of the men in their lives. It’s is really off putting to read a woman echoing this, especially in the context of showing support for victims of sexual predators.

I’m sure many will think this critique too particular - why can’t you just support someone who is supporting victims? It’s just words, it’s the sentiment that matters. The sentiment really does matter, and I’m sure this writer’s heart is in the right place. But words matter, too. And a lot of the words and the ways they are used here are highly problematic.

If you really want to show support, learn about how to discuss these topics in ways that are respectful of the victims and survivors. And don’t be upset if someone corrects your language. Upthread someone called several of us out for using softened language like “molestation” or “sex with children” instead of “rape” and I was really thankful for the correction and reminder. There are loads of online resources about preferred language. I hope this passionate writer will take some time to check them out and think about ways to change her language that will make her message of support even more powerful.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@FitzE -

First off, thanks for noting that you were quoting my quote of KMSFH, and the way this forum works, it makes it appear like those were my words. I really appreciate how you were careful, and super fair with respect to noting that.

Second, I can see where you are coming from, and I think it’s a valid and thought provoking perspective. I’ve been reading multiple posts from KMSFH’s public page over the last week. In all fairness… she’s a very busy horse pro, and not a practicing attorney or working in an academic field (like multiple folks who regularly post on these forums). So some of her social media comes across to me as a bit raw at times, like she took a moment in between rides to share some of her thoughts, experiences and perspective. Grammar and some of the way issues are framed could be better… but some of her core, key insights? Worth taking note of.

The sad reality, is that allegations of sexual abuse and sexual assault are almost NEVER simple issues to deal with when they come to life. Abusers and predators have mothers, wives, sisters, loyal friends, etc. It’s easy to think about these things in terms of ‘lone Wolf’ type of predators, who attacked someone in secret with no warning… and who are easily excommunicated from our family, social and professional circles when these sorts of allegations come to light… but real life is almost never like that. People are part of communities and specific groups, and when abuse situations come to light, 3rd parties are drawn into it.

One thing she did make note of, that really resonated with me, is the calculated way some of these guys went about manipulating people in their immediate sphere:

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

“these men use the same lingo with each mark , and if successful with their attempts, they keep records of texts, videos, emails to use against their prey to shift guilt and to present to their “good woman” as proof and to greater intimidate their latest mark” ~ quoted from KMSFH’s Sept. 21 public post

I think this portion of her longer post points to just how cunning and manipulative predators can be. Guys like this often have some kind of underlying personality/character disorder… narcissistic personality disorder, or sociopathic traits… people with these sorts of issues can be INCREDIBLY effective at controlling the people around them. That’s what they do. Everything is about control, and using the people around them. When NPD or sociopathic people are married or involved in intimate relationships, there is almost always an unhealthy codependent dynamic. Sometimes the other half of the relationship is a vulnerable emotional victim themselves… other times… it’s a little more complicated and the wife ALSO has personality disorder issues… narcissism or borderline disorder.

I unfortunately have more life experience with this sort of thing than I would wish on anyone… and have been to years of really good therapy (I was lucky to find good therapists, and have great insurance) trying to understand the toxic, abusive home I came from, and how to break free of it, and live an emotionally healthy life.

Anyway, I can see where KMSFH is coming from emotionally with her post… the reality is that parents and other clients or working students often assume a situation is ‘lower risk’ if it involves a man who has been married for many years, and the relationship appears stable. It’s important to alert people that things aren’t always what they seem. But I also see where you are coming from @FitzE … it’s important to be clear that when it comes to abuse like this… the perpetrator is the one responsible. PERIOD. Perpetrators like some of these guys are INCREDIBLY skilled at deflecting responsibility for their actions… this is definitely a reason that some of them have gotten away with this crap in plain sight for years and years. So it’s a tricky thing when talking about the wives or partners that played an enabling role along the way.

Shelley Fellers received a severe penalty from SafeSport for a reason. From what I understand, she actively harassed victims, and actively attempted to cover up his wrongdoing and interfere with the investigation. She wasn’t penalized for gray areas when it comes to her behavior, or being in some sort of general, passive denial about her husband’s actions. As for the other women referenced in the post I quoted… time will tell and hopefully whatever investigations are ongoing will result in people who have engaged in prohibited conduct facing appropriate penalties for it.

[FitzE]

Good points, all.

I really wanted to make sure to ID that it wasn’t your words. I liked the wee citation you made in your post, so I went back and used a similar indication in my post so that it is even clearer that the words I take issue with are not your own.

I’m sorry to hear you have your own experience with this issue. How wonderful that you found good support and therapy to help you navigate out of and away from a bad situation. Such strong work on your part - brava!

I’m glad SF was penalised even more given that she not only passively facilitated but also actively harassed victims and engaged in covering up the behaviour. It’s time the perpetrators and all their enablers feel the full force of sanctions under club rules and the law. I hope all the ones gossiped about in that area soon feel the same spotlight focused on them.

Another point to add to the original post is that men very often facilitate other men’s criminal behaviour, such as with the US college football team at Penn State. The coaches and staff did not step in and stop the perpetrator even when they knew about and one walked in on him abusing and athlete. I believe there is also a sitting US senator (or is it congressman?) who was a wrestling coach who I understand knew of abuse and did nothing. So along with the supporting women, these abusers are also added and abetted by supporting men.

[skydy]

An excellent post @FitzE. Thank you for your keen observations.

[dags]

Kristin is doing great things speaking out.

She’s also flawlessly articulating just how far behind the horse world is in a modern understanding of sexual harassment and abuse, especially as it relates to workplace norms. To all that claim the SS videos are a waste of time, this is what happens when an industry is a decade+ behind adopting an education platform. Great intentions but a bit of a flawed execution. I have a bit of an issue with another of her stories, in which she has chosen to counsel the offender rather than report absolutely vile comments he made to her about what a teenage student “needed”. But I also applaud her No $h!t$ Given approach of late. Very few of us can actually get away with that & the people that can absolutely need to stand up & speak out.