Rich Strike retired, to be offered at Keeneland sale November 17th

[LaurieB]

@ejm

“The sale companies post proofs, the consigner sends back with edits (usually things such as wrong color/typo/nominations), then they are published.”

Sure, corrections in the interest of presenting correct information, or updates that fall within the cut-off date. But changing anything in the sire line or female line information on the page is a hard ask, and almost never happens unless there is a seriously good reason for it.

Over the years, I’ve ok’d hundreds of catalog proofs at various sales companies for several major breeders and consignors and only remember one major change to how a page was written. A client had a weanling in at Keeneland whose first dam filled the page, but the second dam was a breed-shaping producer and the breeder wanted to see her name on the page one last time. I talked with the JC Director of Cataloguing and we figured out how to squeeze the first dam and get the second dam on the page.

@ejm, my experience has been the same as yours–and very different from @Arzny’s. We’ve sold 50+ horses through both Keeneland and Fasig, and like you, we’ve been able to correct typos and incorrect info, and provide updates before the deadline. But other than that: nothing. Not even changes that make perfect sense from a sales POV. This has been true when we were with both small and large consignors.

@Arzny, I’d be curious to know which sales are letting you (re)write your pages and which consignors have the clout to make that happen.

[ejm]

I don’t know if the JC is actively involved or just does the legwork to produce catalogs. Current Keeneland catalog says “Pedigrees in this catalogue comply with standards established by the International Cataloging Standards Committee and adopted by SITA.” (Society of International Thoroughbred Auctioneers)

Th JC writes Keeneland’s catalogs and did so at least back to the 70s, probably because they had the staff, research library and expertise in the pre-computer days when everything was researched one horse at a time. They had and no doubt still have an extensive foreign racing library, back when you had to look up produce and race records horse by horse and chart by chart and very few places had foreign stud books and chart books available.

[snaffle1987]

I noticed in his walk videos for the sale he only had front shoes on, no hinds. He hasn’t been doing much of anything. Maybe light hacks.

[snaffle1987]

And as far as Rich Strike being a sub par stallion; he could be the next best thing. He would only be as good as the quality of mares sent to him, the opportunities over a few seasons and the luck of Genetics. Look at his sire; Keen Ice. Good racehorse, not the best in his class, but still very good. retired to a farm who can’t stand stallions to save their life (In modern times). No interest in breeding to him. He still produced Richie from a great mare. Keen Ice had a really nice career and deserved(s) more attention as a sire than what the commercial market in Kentucky was willing to throw at him.

Richie wasn’t a horrible racehorse. He was 3rd in the Jeff Ruby, won the derby, 4th in the Travers, 2 in the Lukas, 4th in the Classic.
His dam was a very good racehorse, winning over $560k and being the 2005 Sovereign Champion 3 yr old Filly in only 9 starts.
I think he has interest in a regional market but I think his owner thinks he has a lottery ticket, unfortunately

[Mara]

Could be they’re just sticking him on a walker for 20-30 minutes daily.

[skydy]

@snaffle1987

And as far as Rich Strike being a sub par stallion; he could be the next best thing. He would only be as good as the quality of mares sent to him, the opportunities over a few seasons and the luck of Genetics.

You’ll be hard pressed to find a breeder that would send a quality mare to a horse that is inbred 2X3 to Smart Strike.

[Mara]

Aside from the close inbreeding, he’s not much to look at in terms of conformation. Disclaimer as I haven’t seen him in person, but his back end in particular does not scream “racehorse”. Basing my opinion from photos only and it could be that I haven’t seen a good one.

Of the new stallions for 2024, I think Gunite is a standout if we’re just going on appearances. He looks so much like his sire.

[MHM]

@Mara

Of the new stallions for 2024, I think Gunite is a standout if we’re just going on appearances.

It’s funny you should say that, because I think that’s the one I just noticed does not have a glamour shot standing up in the crawl on the Coolmore page. They just show a photo of him in a race.

That made me think of the pictures you occasionally see of somebody cantering around a show ring because they seem unable to get a good picture over a jump. Lol.

[ejm]

It can be hard to get a good conformation shot of a horse coming out of training. They’ll get a good photo of him next summer when he’s filled out and put on weight.

[Mara]

There was video posted not long ago, taken shortly after his arrival at Ashford, showing him being walked around in front of the barns. I had a “wow!” moment when I saw that.

[MHM]

Plus they can use that same pretty background with the grass and the stone wall like all the other horses.

[MHM]

Interesting. Was it on their Facebook page?

[Mara]

Gunite

Here you go. He has a longer, leggier build than the “typical” sprinter.

[MHM]

Thanks! Wow, he’s very handsome. He looks like a good mover as well.

Maybe some day he and American Pharoah can have a subset of slow offspring that head to the show ring.

[skydy]

There’s a lot to like about him. He’s a beautiful horse with a nice walk.

[snaffle1987]

Meh. The industry doesn’t seem to care much about inbreeding/linebreeding if you ask me. It’s so much of a problem that the concerns have been rather vocal in recent years regarding concerns about the gene pool. and the inbreeding % is getting worse. Seems like the older popular, proven sires today like Curlin have little to no inbreeding but the high end newer stallions at the top of the rankings have considerably more. Now start looking at the pedigrees of the mares they are bred to… eeeek.

Tapit is 2x Mr Prospector within 4 Gen, and 2x Najinsky and In Reality in 5 Gen.

Vino Rosso is 2x Mr Prospector and Deputy Minister within 4 gen

Kitten’s Joy is doubled up on 4 different stallions within 5 gen

Gun Runner is 2x Fappiano, 2x Blushing Groom, 2x Lyphard and 2x Northern Dancer within 5 Gen

Stallions with little inbreeding: Curlin, Medaglia D’oro and English Channel(0 within 5 generations!), Candy Ride, War Front, American Pharoah, Into Mischief, Practical Joke etc.

[Texarkana]

@snaffle1987

Meh. The industry doesn’t seem to care much about inbreeding/linebreeding if you ask me. It’s so much of a problem that the concerns have been rather vocal in recent years regarding concerns about the gene pool. and the inbreeding % is getting worse. Seems like the older popular, proven sires today like Curlin have little to no inbreeding but the high end newer stallions at the top of the rankings have considerably more. Now start looking at the pedigrees of the mares they are bred to… eeeek.

Tapit is 2x Mr Prospector within 4 Gen, and 2x Najinsky and In Reality in 5 Gen.

Vino Rosso is 2x Mr Prospector and Deputy Minister within 4 gen

Kitten’s Joy is doubled up on 4 different stallions within 5 gen

Gun Runner is 2x Fappiano, 2x Blushing Groom, 2x Lyphard and 2x Northern Dancer within 5 Gen

Stallions with little inbreeding: Curlin, Medaglia D’oro and English Channel(0 within 5 generations!), Candy Ride, War Front, American Pharoah, Into Mischief, Practical Joke etc.

Ah, the good ol’ days when the proven stallions weren’t inbred… oh wait.

Hanover, leading sire from 1895-1898:
https://www.pedigreequery.com/hanover

Hastings, leading sire of 1902:
https://www.pedigreequery.com/hastings

Kingston, leading sire of 1910:
https://www.pedigreequery.com/kingston2

Sir Gallahad, four time leading sire of the 1930s:
https://www.pedigreequery.com/sir+gallahad3

Bull Lea, leading sire from 1947-1949:
https://www.pedigreequery.com/bull+lea

The thoroughbred has been inbred from day one. This is not a modern phenomenon.

The problem with Rich Strike is 2x3 inbreeding is not in favor.

[snaffle1987]

I never said they were not. I just used some recent examples of stallions from the last 15 years who have been extremely successful and have little to no Inbreeding. Is there a connection to these sires and utilizing them in a gene pool with high levels of inbreeding % and their success? Maybe.

Regardless; as a whole, I don’t think the racing industry has enough focus on minimizing it. If the sire is successful on the track and in the shed and has high sale value of their offspring -->this is what many are chasing nowadays.

[EventerAJ]

Inbreeding in general is acceptable, but typically
3x4 or greater. Occasionally 3x3. You will see multiple crosses to the same stallion 4-5 generations back with no concern; genetics will tell you individual influence is 6.25% or less beyond 4th gen.

Most breeders and buyers put importance on the first 3 generations; inbreeding 2x3 is not common or desirable by most in the industry.

[Mara]

I can only think of one example of such intense inbreeding producing a successful sire, and that was over 100 years ago.

Ultimus was by Domino’s son Commando and out of a Domino mare. His crooked forelegs made him too unsound to ever start in a race. He’d not likely have any chance at stud today, but his breeder/owner was James Keene, who had the means and the influence to get good mares to him at his farm.