Rider talent?

[netg]

@Scribbler

Talent in riding encompasses having a certain body type (long legs), certain physical abilities (balance and timing), but also certain mental or emotional abilities like empathy for the horse, an ability to teach an animal something , and relative fearlessness. And a strong desire to ride.

Out of any two beginning riders, one will always seem more talented compared to the other but the advantage might be minor, and the relative rankings reversed within two years.

Or one rider might seem talented because they are being compared to someone who is a real klutz.

Scribbler covered some of the ways in which you can define talent, which was what I wanted to expand upon.

There are definitions of talent you have to look at, and what you can make up for and not. I am terribly unathletic, and am constantly working to try to fix that. Nerve damage on my left side and exercise induced asthma combine to mean I am physically incapable of working as hard as I’m motivated to do - I have repeatedly almost put myself in a hospital trying.

However, I have feel and a sense of the horses which many other people don’t, and also an ability to work through fear rather than be crippled by it as some people are. Those are talent advantages. I also am lucky enough to have a job and live in an area where I can afford two horses to be in full training - so when my asthma is bad, I don’t ride but my horses get worked, and when it’s not bothering me, I do.

The one consistent factor is the real top riders HAVE to work hard. I would say someone like George Morris who claims to have had little talent, or Sally Swift who had physical challenges and a brilliance at explaining things, can really make a huge difference, and obviously CAN still do well. But they really shine as instructors for the amount they have had to work.

[Scribbler]

Also when you only have one horse its hard to know what’s you and what’s the horse. I have been able to teach my mare a lot of clicker tricks. Am I a talented trick trainer or is maresy just a talented trick horse? I’d have to train up a bunch more trick horses before I d be confident saying it’s me, not her!

[gypsymare]

There are definitely physical advantages such as ideal height, long legs, and good health, but so much of what we ascribe to “talent” has roots in correct repetition, and not necessarily of the skill being judged.

A kid who finds an early love of sports is going to look a lot more naturally talented than one who spends more time in front of a screen. We do a disservice when we say the former is naturally talented. They have better musculature, balance and cardiovascular endurance than the screen-addicted child, but it is the result of simple play.

Five years of weekly group lessons at a beginner barn (10+ kids in the ring) doesn’t equate to the same experience as a kid who gets a good yearly lease and an excellent coach and mentor, or is up in the saddle before they can walk.

One child has parents who encourage hard work and concentration and discipline and another is the poster child for sugar addiction and the result of terrible parenting. Who is going to “naturally” be more focused?

Feel is developed through correct coaching and practice. NO one has feel on their first dozen rides.

Talented is what we call other people to let ourselves off the hook for not achieving their level of competence. It cheapens their hard work and commitment.

There are hundreds of skills necessary to ride well, and many are honed outside of the barn.

[jonem004]

I think you’re most likely to see the difference between talent and hard work in the off moments. Like when a horse jumps you out of the tack a little, or spooks unexpectedly. The more talented (naturally athletic) rider would probably fare better in those moments because they aren’t really something you can practice at. That said, the difference would disappear over time and more quickly with exposure to a variety of horses.
Feel is the other thing I would think separates the good from the average. Being told when something is right and trying to understand what you’re feeling is more of a process than just “getting it”. It’s just easier for some people (and some horse/rider combos) to have those light bulb moments that allow them to move up the levels. But talent is nothing without the hard work to back it up. Perfect practice makes perfect!

[SuzieQNutter]

I have a talent for dancing I did not know about. I can get up for a line dance I don’t know and have learned it by the end of the song.

Riding I have done since before I can walk. So probably learned.

Hubby watched me for years before getting on a horse. He did a rising trot from the first stride of trot. Is that because of a talent or because he had seen it so often?

[MsM]

Riding is such a complex sport! I think there are at least two types of talent involved.

First is the physical ability. Some people have an easier time with balance, body control, and the other physical demands. I don’t mean that they don’t have to work at it, just that it comes more easily to some due to their physical gifts.

Second is their feel or ability to understand and work with their equine partner. Again, some seem to grasp horse behavior and the physical signals more easily. Others remain more mechanical in their riding and have difficulty with training or anticipating horse behavior.

I think we all have some “talent” in each area, but the amount varies. The very best riders are talented in both areas and combine it with the drive, work ethic, and opportunities for training required for success at the highest levels. It is likely that some depend more on their physical talent and others on their feel. Likewise, we lower level riders have different levels of talent in different areas. I have very modest physical talent and so rely more on training, discipline, and my understanding of my equine partner. I know that I may not be able to “ride out” a horsey temper tantrum, so I do my best to avoid such confrontations by using my feel, training, and knowledge - and to be honest I also avoid owning or riding horses far beyond my current physical abilities!

[Myout]

Went and read The Talent Code, and had already read Gladwell’s books, all of them. The myelin information was amazing. Other than very rare savants in music and such, everyone had been working on their skills for a very long time. Charlotte Dujardin is a great example, she has been riding all her life. I have only taught two people that were what a bystander would call “talented” from the get go…one had been a gymnast when she was younger, and the other one was a Pilates instructor. Everyone else, even the children, progressed about the same although one older lady was way slower, and I discovered that she never cross-crawled as a child (google that issue and its amazing she learned to ride at all!). So any work you can do on balance and fitness as well as riding as much as possible will enable faster progress.

[Samantha37]

It’s funny- I personally have found that being athletic in other sports does not equate to riding necessarily. I don’t play any team sports (never have), have almost no foot-eye coordination when it comes to kicking soccer balls around, and am just overall not very talented outside of the saddle. The things I did when I was a child were dancing and swimming, prior to starting riding lessons around age 9-10.

I know people who are not naturally talented in the saddle- they seem to have a very hard time with feel, specifically in the bridle. Those people are athletic in other areas. They are also certainly less clumsy than I am. I like to joke that the only time I have any grace is in the saddle.

I have a pretty good natural feel and that combined with a strong work ethic has gotten me pretty far, so far.

I like the concept of getting on a horse and being able to get it to do an appropriate level successfully as being a judge for natural talent.

[meupatdoes]

The way you identify talent is to see how many times the instructor has to repeat the same instruction before the rider is able to do it without being reminded, and how many problems the rider can solve on their own without having it all spelled out for them.

A lot of people could cook a meal if someone stood in the kitchen and told them what to do every step of the way. Not everyone can say, hey, I learned how to make mushroom cream sauce at the class last week so I can probably do the same thing with leeks, and that might actually taste great stirred in to yesterday’s left over risotto.

[gypsymare]

@meupatdoes

The way you identify talent is to see how many times the instructor has to repeat the same instruction before the rider is able to do it without being reminded, and how many problems the rider can solve on their own without having it all spelled out for them.

You’re assuming a standard level of understanding of terminology and physical ability. Or a particular instructors ability to explain a concept. Or a student’s level of mastery of required basic skills, suitability of current mount, etc, etc.

Personally, I can’t believe how many years I wasted fiddling with the bridle before a clinician taught me to lighten with leg and finally get a horse properly on the bit. How many people couldn’t explain an effective half halt… so many wasted lessons.

[Bethe_Mounce]

Rodrigo Pessoa discussed this at a clinic he did some years back at Sonoma Horse Park in northern Cali. He spoke of the mindset of talented vs not quite so talented. How badly do you want “it?” What are you willing to do to achieve “it?” He spoke more of the ability of the rider’s desire to learn. My son had a natural seat, he sat the horse with ease. He didn’t want “it” that badly. One of my other students didn’t have that innate talent but she was willing to give up everything to learn. She went on to be successful on her university’s riding team as a walkon amongst 30 others. Even George Morris didn’t have talent but it was developed thru hours of practice. The talented have to be “cultivated.” I find the not so talented have more desire to achieve “it.” And are willing to do the work.

[SuzieQNutter]

From memory Franz Mairinger said in his book that a guy came in to the SRS with natural talent and within weeks was doing what he could only dream of. The guy didn’t want it bad enough and was not there long.

[meupatdoes]

@gypsymare

You’re assuming a standard level of understanding of terminology and physical ability. Or a particular instructors ability to explain a concept. Or a student’s level of mastery of required basic skills, suitability of current mount, etc, etc.

Personally, I can’t believe how many years I wasted fiddling with the bridle before a clinician taught me to lighten with leg and finally get a horse properly on the bit. How many people couldn’t explain an effective half halt… so many wasted lessons.

I’m clearly not assuming a standard level of physical ability. Some people have great proprioception and can more accurately feel where their body is, or isolate parts of their body (ie, apply a leg aid without tensing their back). These individuals have more innate ability and are more easily able to follow an instructor’s instructions sooner without being reminded.

Other people can fiddle and feel and get a horse on the bit with just general guidance, others never learn even if Klaus Balkenhol personally repeats the explanation on a daily basis.

Most riders fall somewhere in the middle. If they don’t come across a good instructor in their lives, their innate talent will never overcome the gap. If they do have a good trainer, they can work at it and learn the skills. When tremendous talent meets tremendous teaching and tremendous work, you get Charlotte Dujardin. If she never met Carl, she’d be equally talented, but less skilled.

Talent is what you are born with. It gives you the scope of what you may eventually be able to do, and how easy it will be for you to get there, but it does not guarantee you will reach that potential.

Skill is what you learn within that scope.

One of the most annoying misconceptions to me is when people use talent and skill interchangeably.

[exvet]

I have often heard from instructors that commitment and hard work are obviously valued and will get one far; but, talent is innate. Learning how to develop that talent in order to reach the pinnacle of the potential does depend heavily on the quality of instruction (there are many different learning styles and a wide range of quality in the form of instruction). The phrase I hear most often when an instructor meets up with innate talent is - When I coach/instruct x it’s like I can ride through him/her. That would imply that they are guiding each and every step of the way; but, in reality what I’ve observed is that the rider is already ‘doing it’ as the instructor is thinking or saying it. There may be a need for some fine tuning and certainly for those who have never ridden a movement before - an acknowledgment of when it’s right so the rider can associate how right feels in order to repeat it again and later to repeat it on their own. It’s that ability to repeat ‘that right feeling’ without someone else who sets it up to happen that demonstrates a rider with feel/talent and/or skill. Teaching feel can be done to a point. I think when you’re dealing with a creature that has its own mind, the test of how much of that feel is true talent vs. taught/acquired skill will and does eventually draw the line in the sand. So true talent is one who is able to take the teachings/learnings and apply them as well as adapt them to impromptu moments to end up with a positive outcome. One with true talent is able to do this repeatedly and on multiple different horses. They often do it as reflex and not conscious thought but they’re also able to analyze the situation and pull from their toolbox to achieve success in working something through - with no one in their ear.

[emipou]

I’ve been told by a few trainers that I have good natural abilities. My current trainer said it’s my seat. I think that is my only saving grace, because I have really bad internal tempo and timing. None of this means crap without a ton of lessons though. Taking 2+ lessons a week, plus rides with new trainer (and second clinician-type trainer) for almost a year has proven a lot of progression for me. Riding different horses that can teach you different things has been valuable too.

Sometimes my trainer is standing alongside me and telling me now, now, now. Sometimes she’s telling me what to feel FOR. Sometimes she’s asking if I can feel the change. All of these things help.

You definitely have to want it, and work for it.

[Rosie_B]

What interests me regarding talent and human nature is that when we watch someone who is really really good we say to ourselves “That person is very talented.”

When we get really really good, we say to ourselves “I worked really hard.”

So talent is almost always a word that is thrown around about other people, and is used to reflect a snapshot in time (that the person is good) with no respect or appreciation for what it took to get there.

Which is why I generally don’t like to use the word ‘talent’.

[exvet]

What I find funny or odd is that we have no trouble distinguishing horses that have talent for a certain discipline. We spend tons of time trying to figure out the genetics, conformation and other inherent features and attributes that create ‘that’ talent so that we can reproduce it and take advantage of it. I think most agree that the talent still has to be trained, molded, nurtured with appropriate time and work to realize specific goals. We all know of tremendous talent that is left out in the fields and that which is never realized due to the lack of that opportunity (not necessarily good or bad, just is)…so why don’t we see it the same with people? Some are born with innate balance, some feel and some timing. The very gifted have all 3. Some have a more intuitive understanding of the horse and it’s needs. If you are lucky enough to possess any combination of these ‘talents’ and choose to leverage them through gaining more education, instruction/coaching, time in the saddle, your journey may not take as long as another or may be less frustrating -or- despite all your talent could struggle due to lack of money, time or opportunity - yet, you still have more innate talent towards the endeavor than another less gifted. Desire and hard work can make up for a lot that was not acquired at birth - it’s why I was able to take downhill, short-necked, sway backed critters to FEI; but, even having done so I agree that it’s more often ‘easier’ to do with a horse that demonstrates a natural talent for the sport. Don’t you think it’s generally the same with humans? The question is how do you know the difference between a person with that talent vs. one who had the desire and opportunity to acquire the skills? Honestly without all the emotional innuendos that seem to get caught up in these types of discussions I think you know it when you see it just like we do with horses. Keep in mind that ‘talent’ can be lost too. We see many young horses that show great promise and just fizzle out for a myriad of reasons. Well, similar in born talent in people can fizzle or get lost too without the dedication to nurture it.

[anon68314200]

If you want about talk about talent and human riders I would have to say that human civilization moves forward through a mechanism of quantifying the previously unquantified. Eagles are very good at flying but they could never explain to us everything that’s involved. We can look at an eagle and be inspired. But it’s up to us to figure out all the details so that we can mimic and copy the Eagle’s performance. It’s in quantifying previously undescribed information that we move forward.

The important question to ask is not who is the most talented. But how is it that talented people do what they do. How can it be reproduced. What can be learned from what is done.

[16_Hands]

I knew a young girl who had very low self-esteem, was rather homely, and was picked on by the other girls at the barn but the real reason they didn’t like her was because she could ride rings around them and they thought they were the bees knees. She could get on almost any horse, no matter how difficult and could figure out in a matter of minutes how to ride that horse to get the best out of it and have it working happily. She was only about 14 years old too. A lot of talent in that girl and it’s a shame she didn’t continue riding.

[Scribbler]

@16 Hands

I knew a young girl who had very low self-esteem, was rather homely, and was picked on by the other girls at the barn but the real reason they didn’t like her was because she could ride rings around them and they thought they were the bees knees. She could get on almost any horse, no matter how difficult and could figure out in a matter of minutes how to ride that horse to get the best out of it and have it working happily. She was only about 14 years old too. A lot of talent in that girl and it’s a shame she didn’t continue riding.

Yes, one of the complicating factors is that so much of developing human ability is dependent on the emotional and social context. And we really do learn most physical activities better as children and teens.

In some ways we have a talent window in time, and if we don’t learn a sport by the time we’re 15 we may never catch up. With horses it isn’t quite that small a window, except for race horses.

With horses, we look at them and their pedigrees and their innate ability. No one goes shopping for a reiner in the warm blood world, or looks for a grand Prix jumper prospect among Arabians.

With horses we don’t have the problem that our 17 hand westphalian wants to try out for rodeo because that’s what’s cool in his high school, or the Welsh pony wants to race on the track because his friends are bragging about it

Obviously talent in horses still gets squandered or wasted or missed it ruined, but we don’t have to deal with the problem of a horse that finds his natural talents too easy or not cool enough or the wrong clique or etc. Drops off the football team to play guitar in a band, quits riding for gymnastics where all her frenemies are.

People have so many other choices. Some very talented young riders may decide a boyfriend or world travel or a law degree is worth stepping back from horses temporarily or permanently. I am sure many talented little boys drift away from riding when they get old enough to think it’s a “girls sport” but not old enough to realize all the advantages for them that entails!