Rider talent?

[MissAriel]

Just something I’ve been pondering. Is it possible to identify a talented rider vs. a less talented rider with better instruction or more hours in the saddle just watching them ride? What sort of traits or observable differences would make you judge a rider’s abilities to be innate (talent) or a skill they have mastered through hard work. Can you even tell the difference between a talented rider and a skilled rider without knowing any rider history?

For the sake of argument, given two riders with capable horses, good instruction and the same number of hours in the saddle, the talented rider will progress faster. Clearly, even talented riders need to work to develop their skills.

[ladyj79]

This is only slightly contrary, but I’ve had talented riders as students and seen even more who were talented and rode a lot but ultimately topped out because they knew everything already and were subsequently not great learners. I had two girls specifically who were the same age and started at the same time, one was more talented and one was a better learner. While the more talented one won a lot at the beginning after a year the “less talented” rider was better, won more, because she listened and had more tools in her toolbox.

[quietann]

Interesting thought. I am a decidedly non-talented rider.

For me, it would be, can this rider get on an unfamiliar (but not “tricky”) horse, and get good work out of it at an appropriate level?

[joiedevie99]

I think you can make up for almost everything through hours of correct practice, but there are still observable differences at times. One is in feel - how quickly the rider reacts and how the scope of that correction relates to the scope needed to correct. A natural talent will often react faster, and at the right level for the horse, because it’s second nature rather than a decision. A rider that has to learn feel will think first - making the correction a fraction of a second late - and often a bit too weak or strong. I think another place you can see it is Collegiate riding, where you get on an unknown horse.

[MissAriel]

@ladyj79

This is only slightly contrary, but I’ve had talented riders as students and seen even more who were talented and rode a lot but ultimately topped out because they knew everything already and were subsequently not great learners. I had two girls specifically who were the same age and started at the same time, one was more talented and one was a better learner. While the more talented one won a lot at the beginning after a year the “less talented” rider was better, won more, because she listened and had more tools in her toolbox.

Good point about the better student. I hadn’t considered that variable.

but how did you identify the first rider as more talented?

@joiedevie99 - the timing and scope of the aids is one of the things that frequently trips me up as a less than talented rider, so it makes sense.

[DressageD1va]

Talent is a funny thing because I think it only goes so far. Hard work, confidence , determination and willingness to learn are more important than talent IMO. I was a TERRIBLE rider as a kid and everyone around me was much more talented. Now as an adult I’ve passed them all by because of determination and hard work. I love to be a student. I’m certainly no CD but I’m better than the other kids that rode with me growing up.

[BigMama1]

IME the natural rider talent comes through in a few ways - exceptional “feel,” innate sense of timing, and / or an ability to make their own body do what they want it to do.

However, I think most coaches in any sport will tell you they would prefer a hard-working, very determined student any day, over a naturally gifted but unmotivated one.

[ladyj79]

The more talented kid was naturally more athletic and balanced and had better “feel”. But all of or at least much of that can be improved on with perseverance. It wasn’t too much of a surprise to me that the less naturally talented rider was also the one most “into” school, and a good student. A good student can learn a lot in life. I’m not that good but I’ve had a lot of opportunities to ride extensively with gifted professional riders who all uniformly told me they enjoyed teaching me because I listened and tried. So I’ve done more and gone further than many kids who were better than me as kids.

[anon55755751]

One component of “talent” that is detectable at low levels, imo, is natural balance on horseback - especially jumping or riding bareback. Some people just look “at home” whereas others look as they have to actively work to find/maintain a balanced position. Maybe harder to see as other skills become more visibly dominant, but those of us with nagging one-sidedness issues, floating heels or elbows, etc, etc - if you know to look for them, you can probably still see instances occasionally, or can see some thing persistent like stiffness as the rider works to maintain the balance that doesn’t come so naturally. This is related to fitness, but not exclusively a fitness problem, ime.

The best compliment I ever got from a clinician was that I “look like a talented beginner, and would probably like dressage if I gave it a chance” - at the time of the clinic, I’d had dressage lessons for ~20 years (cumulative), but had recently switched to eventing (we didn’t go through my history before the lesson, she just knew I was an “experienced” rider on a young horse). The clinician was an UL rider who came to the eventing barn where I boarded to give the clinic.

I’m not at all talented, so this story is submitted as evidence of “no” to the original question

[2tempe]

I’m with DD above. Some people are born with talent to do a particular sport, or to play an instrument. But the ones who really succeed also have a work ethic. In a sort of strange example - I watched the NBA playoffs last nite - a confirmed LeBron James fan. He has huge talent. But if you listen to him and follow him at all, he works out (non basketball) more hours than you could imagine. He analyzes past games and competitor games. He practices shots - over and over. He has amazing drive. Without those parts, he would be not as successful. He basically said “God gave me the talent, the rest is up to me”

And to answer the original question: I think identifying talented riders takes time, watching them train, watching them compete, etc. That’s why there are a number of national programs by USDF to identify, track and provide assistance for young riders.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

Agree that hard work trumps talent when talent doesn’t work hard, but to get back to the original question, I think the following attributes contribute to innate rider talent:

• Natural balance
• Natural coordination - ability to use multiple body parts at the same time
• Body awareness and control
• Ability to process and react to incoming sensory information quickly and appropriately.

I think most of the above are largely the same attributes that would lead to success in other sports that are largely balance oriented - skiing/snowboarding, surfing, and cycling come to mind.

I think there are definitely some people who have more of these attributes naturally, and because of that, things come easier to them. I also think even for folks for whom these things aren’t natural or easy, the earlier in their lives they start to work on them (because they want to ride or ski or cycle), the easier the pieces come together and the longer they last.

I’ve watched a local trainer whose business is built primarily on lesson kids starting from scratch. In my opinion, she doesn’t do a whole lot of what I consider quality teaching, but what she does do is encourage the kids to remove their saddles for the last 15-20 minutes of their lessons and ride around bareback on her truly saintly school horses. And by gosh, in the time I’ve been watching, some of those kids have become pretty balanced and fluid looking riders using that approach - they still lack skills, and there are some holes, but they have an ease on the back of the horse that most of the adult students I observe obviously lack.

I on the other hand have been bucked off at the canter numerous times in my adult re-rider journey because by the time I process the fact that the horse is bucking, I am on my way off.

[merrygoround]

Talent is certainly helpful. There are people who, no matter how hard they try, no matter what level of instruction they receive, will ever be riders. There are others with innate talent, but still they must work hard to polish that talent. Cerebration alone will not accomplish a whole lot. some can understand but never be able to do, and others can do, but still better understand the why.

[Msis]

I like to think I am on the talented side (I may just be a fast learner who knows) but for my first two years I had weekly lessons and quickly advanced to the level of my barn mates. Now, my good friend spends 4 or more days a week riding, but we are at about the same level despite her concentration of discipline and time in the saddle. I do not ride often (I wish I could but circumstances) and I am a dual rider. However, when I ride at her barn the trainer puts me on the greenest horse. I do not believe if we rode side by side you would be able to tell she has more training

[Buckshot1]

When I think back over the many kids I’ve encountered who rode, two stand out who immediately struck me as having ‘it’.

One was a complete beginner I taught, around 11, who was more naturally balanced on a horse than I had ever seen. He progressed so quickly in a week that it was crazy. I spoke to his parents about it and they said he’d always been quite sporty, and took to new things easily.

The other was a girl maybe 13, who I never actually saw ride, only care for her horse, but she did it with a level of attention that was mature for her age. She really loved her horse and took her responsibilities towards it seriously. No idea what she was like in the saddle, but I’m sure the feel she had on the ground would’ve been the same when riding.

Neither of those kids came from horsey families. I really hope they continued in the sport.

[gypsymare]

Read the books The Talent Code, Mastery and Grit. Natural born talent doesn’t count for much. Lots of cited studies.

[GramV]

Of course work ethic and grit are the determining factor, but most people in horses have that, because it takes that to some extent to be involved with horses.

I would say I can tell the difference between the naturally talented person and the person with lots of lessons. The less talented person with more lessons tends to look good and react in a similar way every time, as taught. A more talented person will feel what is needed at the moment and adjust.

I think anyone can be a good rider with a the time and effort. I think only the truly talented that work very hard (and often have great luck) get to be very successful riders. But, hey, few people need to be “very successful” and being good is just what they need.

[Bogey2]

@gypsymare

Read the books The Talent Code, Mastery and Grit. Natural born talent doesn’t count for much. Lots of cited studies.

The Talent Code is excellent! It has helped me improve my riding!

[Ajierene]

Talent is subjective as well. I have always had naturally appropriate seat and leg and tend to have soft contact and a gentle/patient attitude without being a pushover. I am great with young horses and could have probably moved quickly up the levels of dressage had time/money/interest been different.

Due to my eyesight issues, I have issues with judging distance which means I am not great at jumping. I am good at getting a horse over their first few jumps due to the above, but progressing into striding/distances is not a skill set I possess. I am better when I practice more, but I start to lose it when I am out of practice.

As previously mentioned, as well, talent will only get you so far. I lost some skills when I was just riding my horse. Now that I have multiple horses to ride that come and go, my skills have improved again.

[Scribbler]

Also it really depends how big the talent gap is between individuals, how early they start, and how much and how good their instruction is.

Talent in riding encompasses having a certain body type (long legs), certain physical abilities (balance and timing), but also certain mental or emotional abilities like empathy for the horse, an ability to teach an animal something , and relative fearlessness. And a strong desire to ride.

Out of any two beginning riders, one will always seem more talented compared to the other but the advantage might be minor, and the relative rankings reversed within two years.

Or one rider might seem talented because they are being compared to someone who is a real klutz.

Malcolm Gladwells “Outliers” was useful in pointing out that early intense experience often creates the expertise that is later seen as talent.

With riding, bad instruction can mess up a young riders seat over time, or deaden their natural feel for a horse.

Anyhow, I had “talent” in a couple of nonsport areas as a kid, one area of which I professionalized, the other I stayed very amateur. I had to work at my riding and overcome some fear, but after 5 years I was riding very well for my time and place. As an adult returning rider I feel it took almost ten years to get back to that level of comfort (which is in line with Gladwells 10,000 hours).

Both my areas of talent as a child were jump-started by parents encouraging me very early. Nevertheless to professionalize in one area still took enormous effort and even so, I am not at the top of my field, just middling (and thrilled with that).

I’d say that talent is just the starting point, and it can even make you a bit lazy if you expect and want everything to come easily. Indeed, it was riding that taught me that you can learn and improve and surpass others, that raw talent isn’t the whole thing by any means.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I have zero athletic talent at anything. But analogizing riding to things I do have some innate talent in, the fact that talent makes acquiring basic skills easier can be very motivational in and of itself. If someone has enough talent and feel to get that basic foundation and can acquire skills without a great deal of blood, sweat, toil and tears, it can be very helpful.

Charlotte Dujardin and Conrad Homfeld are two riders I’ve heard spoken of as having innate talent or a sublime feel for the horse, although both are/were obviously dedicated to learning as much as they could about their disciplines.But I wouldn’t completely knock the importance of born talent.

On the other hand, it’s also important to remember that part of becoming a great rider is riding lots of different kinds of horses and getting good instruction. While that’s true of any activity, some sports are much more accessible and easier to practice without access to a tremendous amount of money and coaching, although they do take time and dedication to perfect. Some riders who lived in rural areas used to get that type of experience just being and working around horses, but that type of lifestyle is less available to people who aren’t very wealthy nowadays.