Riding and showing with a trainer?? Advice please!

[Loveforallhorses]

Hi - I’m new here and I’m hoping that this is the correct place to post my question I couldn’t find a post that addresses this topic, but if one exists please let me know.

I’m looking to compare my experience to others as I do not know what is ‘normal’ when working with a trainer (not a person that gives lessons once a week, but a full time trainer)

I recently have started riding with a trainer (AQHA) and bought a horse in full time training as I’ve always wanted to try this level of competition. My trainer always gives me ‘lessons’ when I ride my horse throughout the week and will not let me ride my horse when they are not there. The lessons last anywhere from 1/2 hour to 45 minutes and are typically 2 times per week, sometimes 3. My trainer rides the horse the other days of the week. When my trainer is at a show that I am not attending my horse does not get ridden (again I cannot ride my horse without the trainer present), but lounged by a worker or myself. I should mention that the horse is very broke.

I do enjoy the lessons but I also miss riding whenever I want to or for however long I want to; especially since I’m paying double+ of what board is. I don’t feel like I am a partner with my horse, but rather someone who picks up the bills. Since the horse is very broke I don’t really think that I will ‘mess’ her up by riding alone and I would consider myself a fairly experienced rider.

Is this normal when people ride with trainers? To ride at this level of competition is this schedule needed? Or do you ride your horse on your own and then also get lessons from the trainer (when your horse is in full time training)? And if so, how many times a week do you ride your horse w/o your trainer present, how many times does your trainer give you lessons each week, and how many times a week does the trainer ride your horse?

Thank you!!

[Minxitbabe]

It’s your horse and the trainers paycheck comes from you. Ride your horse whenever you want. I would be looking for a new trainer because if they have that kind of ego we would not get along long term. Is this the kind of trainer that is going to want to show your horse on your dime to give the horse “experience”? Start barn shopping and interviewing trainers who value their clients.

[cutter99]

The only time I have had a horse with a trainer was when I first started showing cutting horses. My trainer encouraged me to ride as much as possible. A cutting lesson might only last 20 minutes if you accomplish what you need to fairly quickly, but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be riding the horse in the meantime so you get to know each other.

My relationship with my trainer progressed quickly to the point where my cutters were at home for all but a few days before a show. For three to five days before a show they would go back to the trainer’s to work cattle daily, as we didn’t have cattle at home. My ring at home was geared towards conditioning the horses to be prepared for the deep sand in a cutting pen and I am good at getting horses fit, so tune ups were all that were needed by my trainer. I have also always hauled my own horses, as well as cared for them myself when traveling to show.

I personally would not have a horse with a trainer like what has been stated above. You own the horse, you pay the bills, you make the decisions. I like having an “up close and personal” relationship with my horses. I know there are people who are not interested in that- basically they want the trainer to put them on the horse at the show ring gate and take them off at the gate after the class is over.

[Palm_Beach]

I’d only recommend that type of program for a very inexperienced rider. A good trainer will educate riders enough that they should be perfectly capable of riding a horse on their own. Sounds like OP has an “instructor” who is only capable of giving instructions and not capable of actually educating riders.

So OP, do you want to learn and become a better horseman, or just pick up ribbons?

[Sparrowette]

@Loveforallhorses

Hi - I’m new here and I’m hoping that this is the correct place to post my question I couldn’t find a post that addresses this topic, but if one exists please let me know.

I’m looking to compare my experience to others as I do not know what is ‘normal’ when working with a trainer (not a person that gives lessons once a week, but a full time trainer)

I recently have started riding with a trainer (AQHA) and bought a horse in full time training as I’ve always wanted to try this level of competition. My trainer always gives me ‘lessons’ when I ride my horse throughout the week and will not let me ride my horse when they are not there. The lessons last anywhere from 1/2 hour to 45 minutes and are typically 2 times per week, sometimes 3. My trainer rides the horse the other days of the week. When my trainer is at a show that I am not attending my horse does not get ridden (again I cannot ride my horse without the trainer present), but lounged by a worker or myself. I should mention that the horse is very broke.

I do enjoy the lessons but I also miss riding whenever I want to or for however long I want to; especially since I’m paying double+ of what board is. I don’t feel like I am a partner with my horse, but rather someone who picks up the bills. Since the horse is very broke I don’t really think that I will ‘mess’ her up by riding alone and I would consider myself a fairly experienced rider.

Is this normal when people ride with trainers? To ride at this level of competition is this schedule needed? Or do you ride your horse on your own and then also get lessons from the trainer (when your horse is in full time training)? And if so, how many times a week do you ride your horse w/o your trainer present, how many times does your trainer give you lessons each week, and how many times a week does the trainer ride your horse?

Thank you!!

You’ve had some good responses already.

But you don’t say what your actual skill level is. Have you always been just a “jump on in the back yard” sort, or ??? You may feel you are “experienced” but your trainer may look at you riding and disagree.

My first thought when I read your post was OMG!, but on reflection, if the trainer is not confident of your ability to keep the horse’s education up to where he is, then there may be that. You didn’t just buy a horse, you also paid for what the horse -knows-. So if the trainer wants to keep him remembering, then the trainer may acting in your best interests.

Just my 2¢

[Loveforallhorses]

Thank you all for the comments so far!

I really want to become a better horseman (definitely not just picking up ribbons) and challenge myself and I need someone to ‘take me to the next level’ - just not sure if all trainers work the way mine does since I don’t have experience being with one. I do enjoy competition (gives me something to work towards and better myself) and want to give it my best.

I completed at open shows with my previous horse (no trainer) and did very well, so I thought let’s try the next level (sold my previous horse to a great family for their young daughters to show in open shows).

Now I have a very broke show horse that completes very well in AQHA and am with this trainer. I thought that riding a really well trained horse (a type of horse that I dreamed about before) and being with the trainer would teach me a lot, but that only happens when the trainer is available so I can ride my horse.

I just don’t know if this is how the AQHA trainers all work? some days I don’t know if I made the correct decision and miss riding on my own - or maybe only some AQHA trainers work this way and I’m not with the best fit

[SuckerForHorses]

@Sparrowette

You’ve had some good responses already.

But you don’t say what your actual skill level is. Have you always been just a “jump on in the back yard” sort, or ??? You may feel you are “experienced” but your trainer may look at you riding and disagree.

My first thought when I read your post was OMG!, but on reflection, if the trainer is not confident of your ability to keep the horse’s education up to where he is, then there may be that. You didn’t just buy a horse, you also paid for what the horse -knows-. So if the trainer wants to keep him remembering, then the trainer may acting in your best interests.

Just my 2¢

Even if that is the case, the OP still owns the horse - if she wants to get on and ride and ruin the horse, it’s her horse to ruin, not the trainer’s.

OP - I could never be complacent enough to own a horse in a situation like you describe. My horse, I’m paying the bills - if I want to ride the damn thing, I’m going to ride it. If the trainer doesn’t like that, then I’d move my horse somewhere else that isn’t such a control freak.

[Tiffani_B]

It’s very different at “breed” trainers than at “discipline” trainers. Most breed trainers have a very restricted program. I show Saddlebreds and this is almost exactly how it is with those trainers. Morgan, Arab, you name it. They want to control every single aspect of the horse to maximize its potential of winning. If you want to compete at that level, that’s what you should expect in terms of how the trainers operate their business. Now - whether or not you LIKE that is a whole different story. I managed to find a trainer that was more flexible in terms of letting me work my horse when he was at shows, letting me attend farrier and vet visits so I could stay apprised on things - but he was ultimately the decision maker and in charge of the horse’s food, vet, shoeing, chiro, massage, bits, workouts, baths - literally everything. As someone who is very used to doing everything myself, this was challenging for me to accept but there were times I enjoyed not having to worry about everything. The trick is finding a trainer who makes decisions similar to how you would make them. It’s not fun having a trainer that does things you don’t agree with.

Ultimately, you have to ask yourself if this type of program works for you. If not, are you able to find a different trainer that can work within your paradigm? If not, then you’ll have to do it on your own.

[beau159]

I would not survive in that program.

It is my horse and I will ride it when I want to ride it.

I understand the trainer’s viewpoint where they want to help you excel at much as possible, and you will do so if you ride only under their guideance. … but remember that riding is also supposed to be FUN. And if you miss going and riding your horse, then do it.

Of course, you’ll have to have a conversation with said trainer if this is a deal breaker for them.

[HuntinQuarters]

I would say that is a pretty common occurrence in higher end AQHA training barns. That is the “easiest” way for the trainer to control the horse’s performance to deliver the show results that many clients expect (some of whom are very hands off).

Personally, that would drive me nuts because I bought a horse because I want to ride him. There are other trainers and programs who will be more flexible. You will need to evaluate your show goals, budget, and distance to travel to a barn to decide if you would like to find a more flexible program.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[findeight]

Good answers above. Honestly, if you are new to this level of the sport and bought a fully trained horse already in this trainers program? You need to understand that horse is a reflection of trainers abilities which generate their livelihood and horse is trained for specific response to specific and very subtle cues while maintaining a certain style-that is what they are judged on. Trainer is coaching you every ride because you are not yet an expert in consistently applying those cues and detecting/correcting any deviation in the horses response.

Failure to do so can untrain a whole lot of months or years of training in a few weeks and result in poor or no placings which reflect on the trainers reputation for turning out horses that place well consistently and hurt their ability to keep current clients satisfied and attract new ones. It’s a hobby for you, it’s a roof and food for a trainer. You need to learn to look at in a different way then your fun hobby whether you necessarily agree or not. Guessing there’s a contract involved that you signed for board and training which probably outlines these restrictions and bet it was explained in advance. As you get better at riding that horse the way it’s trained you may find things loosen up riding wise as trainer trusts you not to untrain their work.

Yes, it’s your horse and you can move him but if you wish to learn the ropes of successfully showing and gettting points and ribbons? I would not pull out right now. Some show horses in regular programs for some time thrive in them and not so much in a more casual, less regimented lifestyle so assuming this one would be a fun knock around hobby horse might not be true. Some of them aren’t much fun for trail riding…

Sooo…what I would do is nothing right now. Stay where you are and learn as much as you can about the high powered side of show world. At the end of the season this winter, see how you feel. Nothing wrong with getting to know other trainers and their programs in your area at the shows. Sounds like you bought into a top level show program generating top results when you, maybe, really wanted something a little less results oriented and more fun? Keep eyes and ears open but get as much as you can out of the opportunity to learn in a real serious top program. Even if you don’t stay there forever and decide you were a little blinded by the show side. But you might find you like it, There is nothing wrong with liking a good successful show horse and all the trappings of the big shows, some horses really take to it as well and really shine there.

Guess you need to sort of find yourself and where you want to be in the horse world. Don’t make hasty decisions like you might have here. Ask questions, make friends. Once you get the door cracked open and get known on your circuit, you’ll learn many things you don’t know right now that nobody can teach you. But stay put for now.

[Loveforallhorses]

Thank you all! I really have some things to think about. It’s good to know others experience this at breed trainers, although I don’t know if it’s for me.

[Bluey]

If your horse is not finished and you are new to a technical discipline, the trainer would like to keep some control on how the horse is coming along in his training.
That is more common with futurity horses, on a tight time frame, no room for mistakes or a horse may fall behind.

Since it sounds like that is a finished horse, I don’t see why you could not ride it as much as you want and do other, trail riding or whatever.
Finished horses should not come untrained so easily as to need to tell the owner not to ride it but under the trainer’s eye.

That trainer may have had some bad experiences and chosen to manage it’s horses and barn by limiting client’s time on a horse, but is not how those I know train.

[Palm_Beach]

@SuckerForHorses

Even if that is the case, the OP still owns the horse - if she wants to get on and ride and ruin the horse, it’s her horse to ruin, not the trainer’s.

OP - I could never be complacent enough to own a horse in a situation like you describe. My horse, I’m paying the bills - if I want to ride the damn thing, I’m going to ride it. If the trainer doesn’t like that, then I’d move my horse somewhere else that isn’t such a control freak.

I’m not a big fan of the “ruin the horse” attitude. It’s behavior - it can be changed. As long as OP rides in a humane and ethical manner, the horse may or MAY NOT lose some show ring finesse, but won’t be “ruined.” You MUST make mistakes in order to learn. And horses too. As long as the horse is listening to the rider and responding correctly to the rider’s cues, it’s a successful ride. It doesn’t matter if it’s a blue ribbon ride or a gate ride, the horse does not understand that difference.

I’d talk to the trainer about a different type of program. I agree with the second quote I bolded - why spend all that money not to ride?

[Bluey]

@Palm Beach

I’m not a big fan of the “ruin the horse” attitude. It’s behavior - it can be changed. As long as OP rides in a humane and ethical manner, the horse may or MAY NOT lose some show ring finesse, but won’t be “ruined.” You MUST make mistakes in order to learn. And horses too. As long as the horse is listening to the rider and responding correctly to the rider’s cues, it’s a successful ride. It doesn’t matter if it’s a blue ribbon ride or a gate ride, the horse does not understand that difference.

I’d talk to the trainer about a different type of program. I agree with the second quote I bolded - why spend all that money not to ride?

That ^.

I would first talk to the trainer and flat tell it that is not working for you, you want to ride every chance you get, “how can we make that happen”?

Then go from that, if the trainer insists on it’s program, you will need to find a trainer that is more flexible and will work with your goals, not the trainer’s goals.

[findeight]

@Loveforallhorses

Thank you all! I really have some things to think about. It’s good to know others experience this at breed trainers, although I don’t know if it’s for me.

Its not just breed trainers, it’s ANY serious, top level show barn that must produce good results against top competition that’s unforgiving of errors. It has less to do with actual ribbons and points then with any observer seeing good, competitive trips from horses out of that trainers barn that directly reflect on trainers abilities. Horse with a poor trip in a best of the worst class does nothing for trainers reputation with those who observed that class but same observers seeing consistently very nice trips in top quality classes out if that barn will respect the trainer even if horse doesn’t place…that means they might send them a horse or recommend them to others. Horse world is a small world and reputation is everything.

Maybe, since you’ve never been in a regular program, this program was a bit too big a step?

BUT, the thing to do here is talk to the trainer about your wish to ride a bit on your own. They will tell you one of two things.

1. “You are new to my program, to Zippy and the serious show circuit. Zippy has been with me for years and is a great horse for you but right now you have quite a bit to learn and don’t know what you don’t know. After you’ve been here a little longer I’ll be more comfortable turning you loose a little more”.

2. “My job is to produce top level winners, I can’t afford mistakes from riders who don’t know what they don’t know effecting show performance and undoing all my training. I thought we were clear on that when you bought the horse and joined the program”.

Most of my trainers over the years, Western or Hunter Jumper, would give you something similar to #1. Don’t see anything wrong with that.

#2 means it’s a barn geared towards client who want show results and don’t want, or can’t, spend much time at the barn. Nothing wrong with that either but it’s probably not the barn for you.

I’d still strongly recommend you stick with this barn until the end of the season and take advantage of the opportunity to learn the finer, more subtle points of presenting a horse in top competition, including covering minor mistakes because no trip is ever perfect. Most riders never have the chance to really understand why they pinned 5th instead of 2nd for example. Be a sponge, soak it up, don’t form an opinion yet, just LEARN.

Of course trainer could be a jerk and if you leave in haste, you might run to yet another jerk because you are fairly new to show programs. Yet another reason to wait 5 months and gain as much information as you can about other programs whikecat your shows…and make some friends with fellow competitors. Go for lunch or a beer, get to know them, they can help you, they are the best source of trainer information since they are around all of them at the shows and have been for years.

And enjoy that horse, who probably was not an inexpensive one. It’s a priviledge to get one with all the buttons installed, even if it takes awhile to learn how to use them and avoid uninstalling the training it takes to put them there and keep them working.

Reminds me of the new car I got 4 months ago and still haven’t figured out completely.

[Palm_Beach]

@findeight

Its not just breed trainers, it’s ANY serious, top level show barn that must produce good results against top competition that’s unforgiving of errors. It has less to do with actual ribbons and points then with any observer seeing good, competitive trips from horses out of that trainers barn that directly reflect on trainers abilities. Horse with a poor trip in a best of the worst class does nothing for trainers reputation with those who observed that class but same observers seeing consistently very nice trips in top quality classes out if that barn will respect the trainer even if horse doesn’t place…that means they might send them a horse or recommend them to others. Horse world is a small world and reputation is everything.

I understand what you are saying, but I think the better horsemen understand that to develop talented youngsters, both horse and human, you need to allow some decision making and hence mistakes. I have zero respect for the trainer that schools every client’s horse in the morning, shows it in a warm up division, and then has the client hop aboard for their division. I like the trainers who allow their clients to struggle and make them fix the problems - watch those trainers for a couple years and the riders they bring up can really ride and usually turn into good lifetime horsemen. Sure, some clients will ditch them for the hand holding trainer, but those clients will never be horsemen.

I think horsemen judge other horsemen on the progression of the clients and horses in their barn rather than whether or not the horse has a good trip or a bad trip. I’m way more impressed seeing a horse and rider improve over the season rather than the rider getting a leg up at the in gate and having a good round due to the trainer’s warm up.

I understand that there are owners and riders who want the champions at the big shows, but OP seems to want to learn and improve and actually enjoy the whole experience of owning riding and showing at the AQHA level.

[saddleup]

I have had my show horse with a top APHA trainer for several years. I ride him three times a week, and my trainer rides him three times a week. I can ride him whenever I want, in addition to the scheduled lessons. I also take him for trail rides whenever I choose. I know there are trainers who don’t want their owners to deviate from their schedule, but I wouldn’t be happy in that setting. When the trainer is gone to a show that I’m not attending I either take my horse home for a few days or he goes on “board only” status. If I leave him at the trainer’s, I go out and ride whenever I want. We’re not charged training fees if the trainer is out of town. I know a lot of trainers don’t allow that kind of flexibility.

[Draftmare]

I have never ridden or shown at the very highest levels, but that would just rub me the wrong way. Like you, I want to have a relationship with my horse, not just signs checks and pick up ribbons. I have always been very involved in all of my horse’s care. At the barn that I am right now it has been a bit of a brain shift for me to be able to actually step back and just enjoy my horse instead of micro managing everything. They take really good care of the horses, and I know that if I ask for something to be done, it is getting done.

If a trainer told me that I couldn’t ride MY horse that I am paying for, I would say thanks, but no thanks and find a different trainer. Again, its my horse. I am writing the checks. I should be able to ride my horse when I want (unless a total beginner). It would be like buying a car, paying all the maintenance on the car, paying the insurance and taxes on the car, and then only getting to drive the car as long as somebody was with me. Doesn’t make any sense, as long as I am a competent driver, I should be able to drive my car where I want, when I want.

If you are not happy in that program, I would start looking for a new barn or new program. At least a new barn and perhaps a trainer that you can haul to or that will come to you. And, if this horse is finished, how much training do they really need? I have several friends with finished pleasure horses that go see their trainer either just before shows, or at most once a week. The rest of the time their horses are trail riding or having fun in other ways. They might do one or two serious schooling rides a week. However, since the horses are finished, they don’t feel the need to drill them.

[SuckerForHorses]

@Palm Beach

I’m not a big fan of the “ruin the horse” attitude. It’s behavior - it can be changed. As long as OP rides in a humane and ethical manner, the horse may or MAY NOT lose some show ring finesse, but won’t be “ruined.” You MUST make mistakes in order to learn. And horses too. As long as the horse is listening to the rider and responding correctly to the rider’s cues, it’s a successful ride. It doesn’t matter if it’s a blue ribbon ride or a gate ride, the horse does not understand that difference.

I’d talk to the trainer about a different type of program. I agree with the second quote I bolded - why spend all that money not to ride?

Oh I agree with you 100% - I was just replying to Sparrowette’s post to make a point that if “the trainer is not confident of your ability to keep the horse’s education up to where he is, then there may be that.”

Even if that were true, that the OP didn’t have the ability to keep the horse’s education up to where its currently at, the OP does own the horse and if that happens, well, it’s her horse to let it happen to. It’s not like the OP is riding the trainer’s horse and potentially letting the horse’s training slide.