I honestly think you just need a different feed. I think your guy is in the “doesn’t do well” category when it comes to Strategy. He’s already eating a lot of calorie, and they aren’t working (well) for him.
What are you seeing as “great results” that you’re attributing to PP out of all the stuff he’s eating which are providing loads more nutrition?
Just a general condition improvement. Easy shedding, smoother hairs, better feet, less fungus. Of course that could be the hay/grain in my case but I’ve seen it in horses that get nothing but grass and a handful of grain to sprinkle the PP on. I haven’t seen any life changing transformations or anything but enough to make me say “huh” and keep paying for it.
What grain would you recommend? Should I give safe choice another try? He ate less but was almost always a little ulcery even with free choice hay and will just stop eating if something little stresses him out. Maybe it’ll go better on pasture?
I would go with Ultium at this point. Higher calories, so hopefully a lower feeding amount. Higher fat.
This, I would say he needs more hay 
sounds like 6 flakes aren’t enough right now.
I’m not sure where you are but in southern Ontario the growing season has most certainly come to its end & there’s not much in the way of grazing. My horse is out 24/7 and won’t even look at the grass. He loves to forage but at the moment its slim pickings so his head is currently in the round bale (with a slow feeder net).
Slow feeder nets work great if there’s a concern about free choice hay - or he may need a paddock change if he gets bullied. Definitely a conversation with the BO, unfortunately its a tough situations as the constrains of our modern lives (and especially near urban areas) often require compromise in one area or another 
I have green grass too but I have added significant hay in addition because the grass does not have the same nutritional value that it did a month ago. If he is doing well otherwise on the Strategy, I wouldn’t change a thing. I personally think he needs more hay at this point. The horses he shares a pasture with may be getting some of the hay thrown out for him.
That is what makes it hard having a variety of horses in one place and trying to meet all their needs . Some may go through the Winter on very little hay and stay plump on the grass and others( like yours) needs additional hay much sooner in the year to hold weight.
This may be best for you, but not for a horse. An ulcery mess is not usual for a horse and shows what at home is wrong. Not eating if a little stressed is not normal and shows something is wrong.
Eating grain hurts when a horse has ulcers.
Forage vs feed should not be near half. The ones that get closest to this usually are racehorses. It is not healthy.
The first thing you do with a horse with ulcers is feed free choice hay. Feed from the ground. Give half a biscuit of lucerne hay before riding and also before travelling. Lucerne is a buffer.
You can also get them scoped and feed medication. But change your routine otherwise it will happen again, and again and again.
Listen to your horse.
He’s not currently ulcery at all. That’s why I’m feeding him the way I am… the issue is changing his grain causes ulcers.
And again, free choice hay is not an option. The only been in my area that can handle free choice has no turnout, and I’m sure THAT would be great for his ulcers.
Experiment (regarding the how much do you feed after riding question).
Right now you want more calories than he’s burning in ridden work because you want a bit of gaining weight as well. That makes it easier because you can start with a couple of pounds and if he gains weight you can cut back, and if he doesn’t gain you can add more.
Mine is erratic when it comes to eating his feed so I tend to offer more than he’ll finish before I’m done tacking up as far as alfalfa cubes. I know about how much he can eat in that time and if he does finish I will offer more after the ride in addition to the extra grain. He will usually finish off any remaining cubes after his post ride grain. My horse needs extra weight right now so he gets the two pounds regardless of whether I ride 20min or 2 hours.
Then you should move to a new barn. That’s the blunt, honest truth. You can’t under feed forage and make it up by throwing 8lbs of grain at them. It’s not healthy. I understand lots of people do that because it’s cheaper but if you really wish to do what’s best for the horse you need to go to a facility that meets the horses needs. I’m sure you probably really like that trainer, and you really like that barn, and all your friends are there, but sometimes we have to make sacrifices to do what’s best for the horse.
The way I read it, he’s not even getting hay now, not yet.
“He used to be stalled at night with free choice hay and 2x daily grain. Currently, he gets 24/7 turnout on decent pasture. As the grass dies he’ll get 3 flakes of Bermuda every morning and every night plus grain.”
Location is so important to have an idea what grass is actually like this time of year. My easiest keeper is still muzzled, but the other 2 have been muzzle-free for about 3 and 6 weeks, and even the easy keeper will start being weaned off his this week as a lot of his excess weight is coming off now.
If you’d read my post, there’s no other barn. No. Other. Barn. I’m not just being stubborn - there’s no other barns within 60 miles that will work. The other barn has 0 turnout and is so expensive I’d be completely unable to buy gas - despite working 3 jobs already to buy him the best I can give him.
I have no trainer at my barn. I trailer him 70 miles to see the trainer because this is the best barn in my area. I have 1 friend there who I see outside of barn time already, I wouldn’t lose much by moving. I appreciate that you think I’m choosing fun and friends over my horse’s health while I’m on here obsessing about him losing 50lbs and feverishly researching grains. I’m glad you think everyone’s privileged enough to barn hop as they please.
Free choice hay IS NOT AN OPTION. He’d have to be stalled 24/7. And no one can convince me that’s healthier for him.
No, he’s not currently getting hay. Hay usually starts in the next month or so - I’m in the south, where it’s still 70*. Which I also already said.
Some of you have been very helpful, and I appreciate it very much. I’m looking into how I could pay for ultium. The rest of you need to go read the whole thread and come back.
A couple of things…
1- I agree with the poster who suggested feeding an extra meal on days that you ride. It’s a little “old school” but I’ve done it and it works. Not a massive meal- it might be 2lbs of grain, or some soaked alfalfa, or…
2- Ration balancer. I have found in more than one case, adding a ration balancer (even to a diet that is getting a “full ration” of a concentrated feed) can be beneficial in helping horses hold weight, being dense in protein. I have shinier, healthier horses eating less grain with a pound a day of a RB, than I did eating more grain without.
3- One week at a treatment dose of omeprazole is not enough to have a real impact on ulcers. Oral omeprazole often requires 6-8wks at full treatment dose, then a taper, to effectively treat ulcers. I wouldn’t expect to see weight gain off of one week of treatment, and thus wouldn’t write off the possibility that he has ulcers.
4- FWIW, my “tricky” keeper did terribly on strategy. He was getting 8lbs a day plus rice bran, and still looking unthrifty. He maintains on ~2-4lbs a day of Buckeye or Triple Crown senior, with about a pound of ration balancer, depending on the time of year and forage situation. I have tried strategy a number of times with different horses, and never been happy with the results.
Thank you! I’m looking at alfalfa cubes right now. I think if I start with only a couple I might be able to avoid him murdering me, plus it would be good for any ulcers he might have or develop.
If only omeprazole did work in a week! I’ll explain my line of thought there. When he flares really bad and stops eating or gets super ouchy, I notice the omeprazole helping within a few days. I figured if he had ulcers bad enough to cause him to lose weight, I would see some small behavioral change or something that I hadn’t noticed initially. Now he’s just suspicious of any cookie I try to give him lol. He’s been feeling incredible under saddle - no misbehavior even with the leaves starting to fall, and his hallmark ulcer thing is being fresh and sassy.
Edit - any thoughts on Thrive? My BO feeds it to her horses and they look great, but they’re both easy keepers. I don’t know enough about grain to say.
Not a chance. 24% NSC, and the creator has some…interesting ideas on what his food can do 
Lots of horses seem to do well despite Thrive. Lots do well until they don’t.
And if the cost of possibly changing to Ultium is giving you heart palpitations, this stuff definitely isn’t for you :lol:
The nice thing about thrive is that because it’s already being fed, it won’t cost me extra board. If I change to a new grain I have to pay the price difference ($10 a bag). I didn’t know it was such a bad feed! I’ll tell my BO and see what she knows about it.
It’s not inherently a “bad” feed. 24% NSC at a couple of pounds is fine for healthy horses. It’s fed at 4lb/1000lb and adjust from there, which is a typical feeding rate.
But if you have a rescue horse, feel free to free-feed it - they will stop eating so much once they recover :lol:
He thinks his processing somehow turns this into a magic combination:
“Thrive Feed is not normal horse feed. You cannot mix it with normal horse feed to make your own combination like you can with ordinary feeds.”
And “do not wet down with water” - !! I don’t know, it ruins the magic? It’s really a Gremlin?
And because don’t you dare mix it with other feeds, “Thrive Feed has a different changeover system to normal horse feed. When you are ready to changeover, you feed only hay and water for 24 hours, then start Thrive Feed at the recommended initial feeding rate.” So, ya know, just cold turkey start at 4lb
And then there’s the obvious safety of this product, at 24% NSC with grain sorghum in it
“Avalon, pictured on the right, is a big gentle giant. He slept all day after consuming 3 bags or 120 pounds of Thrive Feed he stole one night. He never moved all the next day, then at about 6pm got up, had a drink, and looked for dinner. His actions really highlighted just how safe this product is. There were no problems observed with him except a lot of poop.”
So, as for my “thoughts on Thrive” it’s not a feed I would want to be associated with, outside of the 24% NSC and the price tag.
It’s an expensive feed to include in board but hey, if you want to try it for free, try it. You can always change :yes:[IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:“https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/core/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==”}[/IMG2]”‹
I’ll let others weigh in (no pun intended) on the issue of which grain would work best, and overall nutritional supplementation. I just want to add a couple of things.
One is that, if he’s not currently eating any hay (on the assumption that there’s still grass in the pasture), then that would be a place to start. Give him hay twice a day in addition to whatever pasture he’s getting. As several people above have commented, the pasture may be nutritionally pretty slim at this point in the year. I’d also give him some hay as you’re grooming him and preparing to tack up. If you have to pay the barn a bit extra for the extra hay, it’s worth it.
The second thing is that you asked about other all-around supplements to use instead of the Platinum Performance. You might look at Horsetech’s Glanzen (horsetech.com). You’d be feeding more flaxseed in addition to the trace minerals, and that might be a good thing for a hard keeper.
Regarding the term “flakes” for hay. Some flakes weigh 5lb, some 10, etc… Quality is also a factor When cut and how kept.
Regarding the hay issue - I have a friend that boards at a barn where the owner works another job, and has no time to be throwing hay at the horses every 3 hours. Instead, she fills up a giant slow-feeder net every 1.5 - 2 days for every horse and hangs it in their runout area or paddock. I’m talking one of those nets that can hold a whole bale. It has teeny-tiny holes so no-one gobbles it up in two hours. Would you be able to fill a giant net for him yourself? Hang it in his paddock after you ride?
Also - beet pulp. I feed beet pulp lunches to the hard keepers, and if they are really dropping weight while in work, they also get soaked alfalfa cubes. Beet pulp without molasses.
Dear heavens. Yeah, run away fast.
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