Riding race horses in their stalls

[mht]

I have probably had race horses for longer that you have been on this earth. I know what works for me, and what doesn’t. As the owner and the person paying the bills I am entitled to some input on my horses training. If this is the way I choose to go, so be it.

You know full well what I meant when I said they are animals, not pets (think of the slaughter threads).

And if you choose to re-read my reply to you, I again reiterate that I never said that injuries wouldn’t happen - I know too well what can happen in ANY situation, horses being what they are.

[Chanter]

Sincerely MHT, the difference is?

[Underdog]

Well I’ve done it in the stall. Many years ago I worked at a TB breeding farm and we got on them in their own stall. I even started my own WB this way…ya know why?
They feel SAFE in their stall!

One time I had a Mare in the crossties to give her an injection of penecillin. This was the last dose…but she reacted to it. NOT a pretty sight. She was literally trying to climb the haybales and crawl over top of the wall to get back INTO her stall. She felt safe there.
I never in my life saw anything like it from a horse. Thank God she didn’t make it, it would have been a drop.
She came out of it and was fine.

[mht]

All the stories above are the reason I send all of my babies to private facilities to be broken-as if they are going to be riding horses, not race horses. When they go into the track, they already know what is going on and the trainer and the exercise riders are quite grateful.

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

ARRRRGGGHHH!! Hey UDog and Radio…thanks. At least we put our money where our mouths are…and can cite great horses, people and experiences…not vaguely refer to the “top” barns we worked in and then post condescending idiocy. I’m reeaaal cranky…can I just answer BITE ME to all these posts and have done with it???

[Hunter_s_Rest]

Thought of this this morning as I ‘whoa’-ed outside my stall to get off and lead horse into stall after riding – its not considered ‘dangerous’ to back and turn a young horse in a stall because the stalls typically don’t have ceilings, plus, you’re not riding the horse OUT of hte stall (and therefore risking hitting your head on the stall door frame.) Well, ok, you go out once, or maybe twice, while being led, as the youngsters go from turning in stall to being ‘ridden’ in shedrow, but that’s once or twice, with a handler, not coming and going from the stall all the time mounted.
Though, that said, there’s plenty of pro. barns in all disciplines that the pros get a little lazy and certainly ride in their stalls after riding (if not so often ride out on their way to ride.) Its just a laziness thing. I would tell my kiddie students not to, but see lots of pro’s do it all the time.

[SeaOat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Underdog:
One time I had a Mare in the crossties to give her an injection of penecillin. This was the last dose…but she reacted to it. NOT a pretty sight. She was literally trying to climb the haybales and crawl over top of the wall to get back INTO her stall. She felt safe there.
I never in my life saw anything like it from a horse. Thank God she didn’t make it, it would have been a drop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cross-ties…big no no in my book under any condition but to pop one w/ penicillin?? Yikes! Your horse wasn’t in his mind while reacting so could have cared less about his stall. And most react w/in seconds by dropping and thrashing. After years of giving it, one slightly askew toss of a whisker after injection of pen & I’m OUT of the stall asap.

[Carol_Ames]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>e who think that their trainer’s way the only way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whenyou reworking foran owner or trainer their way IS te only way, I have been very slow tolearn, but, it’s true, unless they ask yo for a better way.

[Underdog]

Well, not sifting thru every post…but…what to take away from this table?

Get inside the mind of the horse?
Now THERES AN IDEA!

I guess if nothing else…I’ve observed animals around me and watched what works. Not just horses. LOL!
I’ve never spent a dime on the * Natural Trainers*, but they have a place in this world…and I worry bout that…
It’s so friggin simple. If you have patience…or an ear…or a clue.

But lets all have a second helping of turkey…I’m cooking.

[Spurt]

We actually prefer horses that have been at facilities that have a training track and alot of stuff going on. Because when you get a 2 year old in at Churchill usually derby time(the worst possible time) and they see all those horses, people, you want them to be used to that stuff not some horse that has been rode in a field and never left the farm.
Our yearlings got broke in the fall(just riding in pasture, steering and whoa) early spring they will get rode again on basics in field and then go to a training facility with a track learn to gallop a bit and bring them in after derby. You don’t want them too fit thats the problem with farms they think they are doing you a favor when they have them working already. Nope, because they went too fast and horses are alot harder to handle when they are fit and strong then fat and get tired easy.

[Red_Hunter]

I agree with the race horse people, that to sit on a young horse for the first time, it is best to do it in a stall. The horse is much quieter in the stall and is not as apt to freak out as much versus being out in a more open space.

[SeaOat]

Hey RaceTB:
Nuttin shakin here ma’dear…SO is at the beach w/ family, kid is at Franklin Smith’s farm breaking babies and I’m working 2 of the 3 jobs on T-day…can we spell yuck? Oh, I do have the company of Blinky, the pigeons and a cat or two on this snowy day. How sad is that?! Pigeon lady is on the damned race track all day…what a greeting card image that conjures up

[Timex]

you mean that you can actually learn something from someone of another discipline?!?!?!?!? who’d a thunk it!!!

(Sorry, Red Hunter, couldn’t resist it! it was just too easy.)

[Freebird]

Forgot to add - I galloped at Chaboquasset Farm in Palmetto Ga. At the time it was a huge TB farm - had broodmares, babies (though the mares were shipped off to KY to actually foal) Keeneland Sales preps, rehabs, fit racehorses, and of course the youngsters in training. My husband learned to gallp racehorses with Janet Elliot in Penn.

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

…arrrgh, Sorry, I’m on a roll tonight
…and 2Simple, You didn’t stick around in H/J long enough to hear one of the finest HUNTER owner/riders explain this is the way MOST professional barns of ANY discipline break babies.

[mht]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Racetb:
Your husband learned from a good one Freebird!!
mht…Your point of view was dismissive and condescending, especially to post in the race forum with that attitude, and not expect us to defend ourselves. Do your yearlings experience starting gates and working in sets…broken as riding horses? I’d think these things are rather appreciated by the next folks in line to work with them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, my yearlings don’t experience this, because I don’t believe in breaking yearlings either, which will probably get lots of negative comments here, as well. My horses get started as late two year olds, and never race until they are three. I believe in letting them mature somewhat, so the trainer has a horse that stays sound enough to race past their three year old season. I don’t think you quite understand how horses in training are handled here. There are very few places/training centres that have their own tracks, let alone starting gates. Pretty much all of this work takes place at the track, so if you can provide a horse to your trainer that doesn’t require breaking that just makes their job that much easier.

[Just_My_Style]

Well, I worked for a trainer that had racing Thoroughbreds and Quarter horses. All the babies were handled daily from birth, sacked, ground driven and then “ridden” in their stalls. They learned to load, clip, have manes pulled, pick up their feet. The ones who did not make it on the track were excellent candidates for riding horses. Maybe I just worked for a responsible breeder/ trainer.

Anyway, it wasn’t actually “riding”. It was technically “sitting” and “leading”. The babies got comfortable with the idea of a person putting all their weight on them and moving forward a step or two. After only about 2-3 days of this, we went to the smaller ring. Honestly, after all the ground work the babies were really wonderful. I can’t remember any ever flipping or freaking out. They all just stood there. We got a few snorts.

With in weeks we were on the track. I don’t do race horses anymore, but I wouldn’t dream of breaking a horse any other way.

[SkyBeauty]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by mht:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Reply </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chanter, did you read SkyBeauty’s post? I think it speaks for itself. I realize not all trainers/training facilities work like that, but I don’t want to take the chance that my horses end up at a place that trains such as that. These are my home-bred ‘babies’ and I just prefer doing it my way. Nothing more needs to be said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m probably taking your comment the wrong way here, but for me it conjures up visions of dark, dank stalls, with whips and rodeo events going on in every stall, with all of the associated yelling and screaming. I assure you that isn’t at all true.
No baby gets forced to do anything, or beaten to behave. Each step of the process is guided by how the horse handles it, so that it is a pleasant experience for them. If they object to any part, then you just stay at that level until he gets used to it and relaxes, then you go on. If done properly, most babies are so relaxed with the whole process that it isn’t any big deal to get all the way to turning with the rider up the first day. Some horses stall out earlier and take longer to accept everything, and they get the time that they need. But most handle it beautifully the first day.
It is in a rider’s best interest to make the breaking process a pleasant and rewarding one for the horse, because he is going to be riding that horse, and any mistakes will come back to haunt him.
Most racehorse babies get a much higher standard of care in a training barn than I’ve ever seen in any riding horse barn. Admittedly, I haven’t been in many riding horse barns, probably only 15 or so, but I’d far rather have my horses at a real training facility, with people who are familiar with race training than in any of the barns I’ve been in.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

I’ve stayed out of this one since you guys are making so much ‘sense’ out of the situation. But reading the whole topic (YES, I read EVERY post) I think a few things:

1. No stall I’ve broken babies in even had a ceiling. Mostly old tobacco barns in Ky. or my own barn without ceiling over the stalls. I think the OP is imagining ‘regular’ stalls with a ceiling which, of any height, would be sorta scary, I agree.
2. Freebird is RIGHT ON about the non-racetrack broke horses. Yikes. Tbs broke for the track (and actually sent to the track) know Everything about the world (tractors moving towards them, past them, traffic, cars, other horses walk trot canter gallop and working past you (in both directions), living 23.5/7 in a friggin’ stall and still being pretty civil (mostly), crowds, flapping flags, loudspeakers, everything. Ok, perhaps not ‘slowing down when you pull on the reins’ or going officially on the bit but, heck, I’d trade those things anyday of the week for a quality horse who has the track experience.
3. The final thought is for racetb - or is it freebird - when were you at Rokeby? My (late) husband worked there for about 15 years breaking the babies and I think he was there with the one you listed above. I’d love to compare notes!! He was there for Red Ransom. Was that when you were??

[bjrudq]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>and don’t forget the most important person, responsible for you and your youngster…THE GROUND PERSON. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

as one with very little experience here, i second that.

i have backed only two horses-my own-and one was done in a large indoor arena on the lunge line; the other in the stall.

both times i felt relatively safe and confident because i had an EXPERT on the ground.

no problems whatsoever with either one; and i still own and ride both of them to this day.