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Riding Student falls- procedure and etiquette

Off Course
#41

I have a few lines of thought here.

  1. School horses can be stubborn and difficult since they have to deal with lots of green riders pulling, kicking, and flopping around up there. Most are saints, but once they get to the “screw this” point, they become dirty stoppers, buckers, etc. Personally, I would only put an experienced riders on a dirty stopper, which brings me to my next thought.

  2. I have no way of knowing what level of experience your daughter has. If she’s coming unseated frequently, it suggests she does not have a secure seat. When she first started riding, did the trainer put her on a lunge line so she could develop a feel for proper seat and balance? Your daughter sounds like she could greatly benefit from a stronger foundation before moving onto cantering and certainly jumping. At the very least, I would ask that she be on a horse who show her the ropes until she is very comfortable up there. Until you can walk/trot/canter well, jumping should not be in the picture.

  3. With beginners, there seem to be two schools of thought. Some barns do lots of what are callled “up/down” lessons to help the new riders develop a feel for the horse. They learn how to post, leg placement, etc on a lunge line so they don’t have to worry about steering or even controlling the horse. They make sure the students can W/T/C at all three gaits, before they even ride off the lunge line.

The other extreme is the barn that puts your kid on a horse, hand them the reins and tell them to kick to go and pull to stop. These are kids that usually end up falling off a lot and most quickly lose interest in riding. While these are extremes, it does sounds your daughter is at the latter barn to an extent.

  1. As for the actual fall, if the head hit the ground at all, riding is done for that day. Get her checked for concussion. If she merely fell off and was just dirty but not broken, remount and move on. When in doubt , a visit to the urgent care center is never a bad idea. If your daughter continues to ride, you will start to see a pattern with doctors rolling their eyes every time she asks “when can I ride again?” While I hear your desire to run to her when she falls, she sounds like she’s handling it just fine. Riders are a tough bunch. You mention she is shy. It will definitely help her find her voice. I’m sure you will see a positive change there. That all being said, her first lesson should have included how to fall safely. Always tuck and roll. It greatly lessens the impact and would have prevented a broken wrist. I’m guessing she tried to brace herself on landing.

  2. If you’re watching the lessons and wondering if you have her with the right program and instructor, here are some things to look for. Does she look secure on the horse? Is she sitting up tall or is she slouched over and grabbing mane to save her balance? Is her lower leg still with her heels down, or is it dancing all over the place? Is she riding better at the end of her lessons than when she first got on? Watch lessons at some other barns if you can. You might notice some things for better or worse in comparison to your daughter’s lessons. Most kids want to get to the jumping part, but she’s young and has plenty of time to get there.

You’re a good mom for asking these questions. Sorry your daughter got hooked on such an expensive sport!

1 Like
#42

Just NO.
@darcilyna As a non-rider Mom you have to be confident the program is safe.
What you describe - including the EMT co-owner - does not sound safe.

Maybe for older riders with more experience, maybe.
But for an 11yo with a mere 2 years of lessons (weekly? more often?) she is indeed a very novice/green horseperson, and in what dounds like a not very safe program.

I question a trainer who permitted this horse to dump her a third time.
IM(50+yrs of experience)O, trainer should have gotten on after the 1st stop, most definitely after the 2nd to school the Stop out of this horse.
And probably suggested another mount for your daughter, even if trainer got the horse over the fence.
We know so much more about concussion today, it is not promising that EMT-owner did not include that in her advice to get to an ER.

Please consider another lesson barn.
Part of your interview should include the scenario you describe.

I was a shy kid too, learning to ride in the 1950’s when liability was never an issue.
And the “Get back on” school of thought ruled.
Looking back, I had some very questionable rides on some very sketchy “school horses”.
My non-rider Mom stopped watching lessons after a kid came off in a group lesson, horse fell too & getting up placed a hoof square on his chest.
We all stopped breathing, but TG, humans are squooshy, unsure footing & horse did not put weight on that foot.
IIRC, kid did get back on.
Everafter, Mom would drop me off, sit outside & collect me post-lesson.
Times have changed.

4 Likes
#43

I skimmed most of the posts so I am probably repeating others. OP your daughter is a green/beginner rider. Nothing wrong with that. Four falls in the last 2.5 years isn’t terrible. Falls do happen and if one continues in this sport one has to accept that. However, if three of those falls happen in one lesson that’s a red flag that the instructor/trainer over mounted your daughter. Especially if the horse pulled the same thing with the instructor/trainer.

If your daughter is too shy to speak up about riding a different horse until she has the seat to stay on that maneuver you need to be her advocate. I’m all about people riding challenging (for them) horses to improve but a horse pulling the same stunt with an experienced rider is very much not suitable for daughter right now.

I do not know anything about incident reports and I’ve never gotten one.

3 Likes
#44

i don’t know all the terminology but her first couple years of lessons were all up down/ up down up down… She did the full day camp last summer at that pace and has averaged 2 lessons per month for about 2 years. Just this summer at camp did they advance her to canter and beyond posting at the trot to a sitting trot.

She may need a slower advancement than she is getting it it’s possible her trainer just isn’t versed with what to do in this exact horse behavior. This is a new-ish trainer to this barn albeit she came to them with tons of experience!
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Some horse knowledgeable parents who have seen her ride complimented her riding which surprised me I have no idea if she is average or progressing well really. :slight_smile: The head trainer worked with her one time and suggested IEA. I agree she is green in terms of experience but she’s not just flopping around up there or kicking randomly… I wish I could post video or photos. I suppose I could figure that out

#45

A few people have mentioned jumping. They were not jumping in this lesson. Just basic walk trot canter. The pony was stopping and dropping his head/neck without warning. 3 falls were not 30 minutes into the lesson.

Also during tack up, this pony did NOT want the bit in it’s it’s mouth. The trainer had to assist as my daughter usually handles all of the tack up no problem.

Also as an aside we have have overall been happy with this barn up until the last few months!

#46

I did not do a good job giving a play by play of each step of intervention. The EMT co owner was fetched because of the potential concussion symptoms. He did a short exam and we discussed her symptoms. Through discussion and assessment it was ruled out. A) her condition improved quickly. B) it is not uncommon for dd to fall/half faint when nauseated as she has done so before when she had a virus. C) she had eaten a bit right before her lesson

There also was a PT on site one of the mom’s. We all AGREED that Ortho was the most pressing concern. …but to keep an eye out for concussion symptoms. This was discussed seriously and I agreed.

We tried going to the Ortho express but they were closing so we went to the ER anyways … Probably for the best

#47

This is simple terminology confusion. The term dirty stop is used to refer to a horse that is coming up to a jump, but refuses/stops at the last second and without warning. Dirty stop isn’t a term most would use on the flat.

I’d encourage you not to overreact, but to be a bit more pro-active. Falls are going to happen, but you can talk to the barn about making sure they call you if you aren’t present. You can also express your desire to not have her re-mount unless they are absolutely sure she is fine.

If you’ve been happy with the other horses she’s ridden, I’d also discuss with them not having her ride this particular horse for a while. 3 falls in one day isn’t impossible, but at the beginner level I would consider the rider over-mounted relative to current skill level and stop putting them back on - or put them back on but only to have them do something easy and unrelated (like trot a circle on the lunge line) and get off.

4 Likes
#48

Just as an aside, sounds like the pony might just need a grazing overcheck.

I, as an adult, have gotten back on with a broken wrist, but I broke it cleaning the stall (pulled on a muckcart handle and it came off, my arm hit the wall). I bandage it, rode (my own, reliable horse), went home and iced it. It kept hurting, went to the ER, Sigh, But I am an adult and to me it was “Oh, that was really dumb.”

I do think that your daughter is still very much a beginner and needs a program with more reliable horses/ponies, because, beginner or not, coming off three times in one lesson is too much. It is fortunate that it’s ONLY a broken wrist.

Is there a pony club in your area? Often they have ponies that are shared or loaned (outgrown by older kids, etc.). The “all around” nature of Pony Club, with grooming, stable management, etc., besides riding is excellent for any kid.

#49

Used to drive me nuts when I had to kill 15 minutes and sign off at the Y for a band aid or wasp sting. If it needs stitches or a visit to the ER then OK.

I think in this particular instance your daughter got tenser as she fell and the instructor just did not recognize that. Riding instructors often have no formal training in how to teach and use their own experiences, if they are confident they sometimes don’t understand a shy child failing to speak up.
In your dd’s favor the instructor probably thought she WAS capable and was focusing now on schooling the pony.

2 Likes
#50

That sounds all good. It sounds like she is being brought along properly. Maybe it was just what you said. The new-ish trainer not knowing the school horses particular quirks.

2 Likes
#51

A dirty stop is when a horse stops in front of jump. I have never ever ever seen a school horse do what you said in a flat lesson. It is a red flag.

I would not be sending my daughter to a place that has a horse that does that. Something is wrong. Either the training has caused this or continuing to ride a horse in pain has caused this. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

That said yes falls happen and kids bounce more than us adults do. You check the child is okay, if a fracture you take them straight to the hospital. If concussed straight to the hospital. If winded you wait until they can breathe If he pony does a ‘dirty’ stop, which it has never done before you change the pony, etc, etc, etc. That one is taken out of lessons until the problem has been addressed.

4 Likes
#52

As a riding instructor and TR Instructor, I take real issue with the comment, “Unless you’re dying or really knocked your head or need an ambulance, you get back on the horse.” That kind of callous attitude about someone taking a fall can lead to riders being humiliated and leaving the sport or worse.

I once witnessed an instructor who had that attitude embarrass a middle aged woman who fell off at the canter. I was a volunteer in TR in a different lesson in the arena that time. I saw the fall and told the instructor I was working with that imho, they should call an ambulance immediately. They brushed me off, got the woman up, told her she was ‘just fine’ and her instructor wanted her to get back on. They made her sit in a chair and then, thankfully, she refused to get back on but they let her Drive Herself Home. Instead, she drove herself to the ER and it turned out she had a broken back.

I grew up on horses and had a horse farm for 22 years. I had some tough falls and my kids all fell off, too. I know it comes with the territory but as an instructor, I believe it is our responsibility to be up front and honest with parents about any type of fall. Sometimes it’s ok to brush off the jeans and get back on, but if there is any question, I always err on the side of caution and always tell the parents. The barns I’ve taught in always required an incident report.

11 Likes
#53

I came off eight times in a lesson once when I was a teen. I don’t think my mom even knows now, ~16 years later. It was a green hony that really liked to bronc buck when you’d ask for canter. I don’t really know why the trainer/coach never got on at any point, I never thought about it before.

Anyway, that was a long time ago. When I was riding as a teen, there was never any protocol about contacting parents. My mom didn’t typically stay and watch my lessons, for a variety of reasons. No one made a special phone call if I fell off. I’m sure they would have if I had been injured, but I was fortunate to not have any real injuries other than scrapes and bruises. It definitely was a “hospital or on!” time, far more than it is now, and my mom only knew if I fell off when I had dirt all over me.

I think, with the increased knowledge about concussions these days, it isn’t unreasonable to expect to lesson barns to start implementing some kind of notification and documenting procedure. That way, at the very least even if the kid seemed fine immediately after the fall, the parent(s) know to watch for possible concussion signs over the next few days, as we know they can take several days to surface.

#54

Not related to trainers, but before we started riding lessons my Dad took us to the front lawn and taught us how to tuck our shoulder and roll in a fall, from the standing upright position.
Falls were expected. I think I was 6 or 8 years old.

4 Likes
#55

Is it just me or is this thread veering into Troll Bingo country?
Details are now being added:

“not jumping, basic walk, trot, canter”

Then who provided the “Dirty Stop” tag for pony’s behavior?
Not appropriate in the circumstance now described.

“newish trainer…tons of experience…not versed in this type of horse behavior.”

Oxymoron.
New to teaching? What kind of experience?
That “horse behavior” should be a Stop.Do.Not.Pass.Go! for any horse suited for beginning riders, especially kids.

“every parent compliments her riding”

Every horse-knowledgeable parent?
If not, their opinions are not so valuable as you might like to believe.

As an aside:
Do trainers not teach Emergency Dismount any more?
We were taught beginning with horse standing still, progressed to walk, trot & finally canter.

I believe I may need to pop some corn.
And perhaps pour a glass of cardbordeaux.

4 Likes
#56

@2DogsFarm you could be on to something, but is there a square for that?

#57

It’s impossible to say whether or not this is a usual/normal/safe situation without seeing exactly what happened.

If your daughter was on a lesson pony who was dirty stopping and dropping a shoulder and she was coming off at high speeds… no it is not usual to be getting back on 3x. If she was slipping down the front of a pony who stopped to get a bite of grass, that’s a little different.

To answer your bigger question - No, equestrians do not consider falls to be a huge deal or worth a phone call to parents. Any instructor I’ve ever worked with (and it’s a looong list) always expect their students to get back on unless there is an obvious injury or any hint of a head/back/neck injury. Getting back on with one of these injuries can be catastrophic. But most falls are not a big deal and most of the time it’s a good idea to get back on.

I’ve fallen off 20 - 30 times. Three times I did not get back on - two concussions from horses who I knew were going to buck me off again if I got back on and one obviously broken arm. I can think of two times I took a few minutes to decide if I was okay before getting back on. And the rest I fell off, knew I was okay, and I was back on the horse and back to business inside of three minutes. Some of those were forgotten by the end of the ride. This is just my personal experience, but it does give you at least one anecdotal account of how often falls are serious :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#58

Forgive me. I’m new to the horse world and also a somewhat traumatized parent who came here seeking some input. Some details didn’t seem important at first post until questions were asked etc. I’ve tried to be honest and clear but maybe not successfully so…

The “dirty stop” tag is what her trainer called what the pony was doing. I had no clue if is mainly used to refer to jumping behavior until people here said that. There were jumps in the ring but they were not doing the jumps rather going around and in between them.

I probably talked up my girl more than I should but I’ve been surprised at horse knowledgeable parents saying “she’s a good little rider” when I have no clue if she is average or ??

The trainer is new to this barn but the leadership talked her up as having a lot of experience riding etc.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Glad my thread could be entertaining to you. Enjoy your popcorn.

7 Likes
#59

Well, coulda been Less Than 5 Posts, but that ship sailed 2 pages ago.

Maybe Accepts Unreasonable Risks
Or
Adds Details

Aaannnddd…
Now I smell Snark in OP’s last response.
Mea Maxima Culpa, but you kinda walking like a duck.

4 Likes
#60

Good point

2 Likes

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