She just needs way more saddle time.
Imagine you put a kid in piano lessons but had no piano at home and the only place they got to play was an hour lesson twice a month. And I’ll n between they don’t even listen to music.
How fast would they progress?
I am going to address the IEA aspect of this post. I am an instructor at a barn with a large IEA team (middle and high school).
You can find the qualifications for each level at rideiea.org. There is a “Library” section that has the rules in a downloadable PDF.
Do you know what level your child has been registered for? It is true that for even the lowest levels, “one-year of instruction” is considered a requirement. From your description, if this child were in my program, I probably wouldn’t consider her to have had one year of instruction - certainly not consistently. In previous years, Future Beginners (middle school w/t/c) could enter a second class of walk/trot that was solely for ring experience, not points. This year, a rider can be in either w/t/c (for points) OR w/t (for experience) but not both. If your child is in the Walk/Trot class, it will be a learning experience for her, which is great, but she won’t earn points towards qualifying for Regionals nor will she earn team points. This is not something that we as an online forum can determine. That is up to her trainer. If you get to the first show and the steward thinks that she is unsafe, she will be removed from the class and should not be entered in another show without proving that she can safely ride in a (potentially large) group of other inexperienced riders.
As an IEA coach, we are required to take a concussion training course and pass a test. Now, it is an online course that can be faked through. However, any trainer worth paying pays enough attention to learn the symptoms and the steps to take to determine if a rider should continue. They SHOULD apply this training to any sort of injury that a rider may get during a fall. However, so much of it is a judgment call. For example, you and I might handle the heat just fine, but may have a rider who truly struggles with the heat. But it’s such a fine line trying to determine, is this rider simply trying to get out of doing a difficult exercise, or are they truly starting to not feel well.
Every instructor has a different way to determine if a rider is fine. On a forum such as this, we only have your word and description. For me, if a rider hits the ground I first assess what made the fall happen. Did the kid bounce off the smallest pony in the barn at the trot because they weren’t paying attention? I’m probably going to go up to them laughing saying something like “well what did you do that for?” To make it seem like a light hearted thing. Then I would make sure nothing hurt, and throw them back on the pony. Did the pony spook at something and spin or stop at a jump and the kid hit the ground hard? I tell the kid to sit still for a minute, figure out if anything hurts, see if the helmet is dirty, then start asking questions. Do you know what happened? If not, I go more basic: what day is it, do you know where you are. If the child can’t answer any of these questions, they don’t get back on. If they can, they catch their breath and as long as nothing is hurting to the point of preventing the rider to get back on, they get on. Do you know if your trainer asked any questions like this? I would agree with others that if your child had already been unseated at the walk and trot by the same maneuver, I probably wouldn’t have let her Canter that lesson, instead finding something positive to do at the trot to end on. Unfortunately, even the best coach at any level of any sport can make a mistake or an error in a judgment call such as this.
Regarding the text messages you exchanged, I will comment this. Your use of the word “never”, she never wants to ride this pony again, would immediately put me on the defensive. “Never” is a long time. I can understand the trainer’s response from that angle. We love our lesson horses. They are what make our lesson programs possible. It hurts us when a rider or a parent who sees this horse once or twice a week says something negative or derogatory about our horse that we see every day. Even though there is every possibility that you didn’t mean anything hurtful by your comment, it certainly came across that way to our trainer. I’ll give you an example -
I had a parent email saying, “my child will be at her lesson today, but she would like to ride any pony except for “Poppy” as she has a hard time making the pony go. ” Of course, “Poppy” would be the easiest, most steady eddy pony in the program and the one I had happened to assign the child that day. So she rode the pony and I began the lesson with explaining how it doesn’t do any good to request to ride a horse that goes faster - I’d rather have a horse that’s hard to make go than one that is hard to stop, especially for a beginner. We worked through the lesson and it occurred to me that the last time she had been there, this pony had somehow had a minor spook, or something that very small that had made the child uncomfortable. If I had said “ok, you can ride a different pony” this child might have gone the next year being terrified of this pony. Conversely, I had a parent say about a different pony, a much more advanced pony in a higher level lesson, “can my child please not ride this pony for the next month or so as she has several other activities that she is doing and she doesn’t feel comfortable enough on this pony to be confident riding it”. That is a concern voiced in a way that I, as a trainer, can understand and work with. I think the wording and “tone” of the text may have put your trainer in a defensive position.
Again, every trainer is going to have a different approach and sometimes everything just seems to go wrong no matter what we do. Maybe your child did get the pony figured out what to do to make the pony trot and the instructor thought everything was good to go, and then it happened at the Canter and the trainer was kicking herself. While she may not admit fault to you in person (because let’s face it, it is HARD to say “it is my fault” for many things) I would bet she is thinking about it now, and wishing she had approached it differently. And perhaps the questions you have posed here, and subsequently taken back to discuss with the barn owner and trainer, will help her know better what to do if this situation were to arise again. Think of it this way. Because you have gotten others experiences, you are now more knowledgeable about how many people approach these situations. While you can’t expect every instructor you meet in your child’s riding career to act the same, you can have a general idea of what to look for and what you are comfortable with.
Wow thank you for your thorough reply and advise.
as far as IEA…I only know she is in the beginning group. It’s quite likely she will be in the lowest class…not for points. I’m not sure when that needed to be decided. I have not been told. They may have been waiting to see how she did with the 2 lessons a week from late August until first show. But she injured her wrist the night before the 2nd team IEA practice of the season so. …?
Some told me to pull her out if IEA or that she should not be on the team. I have already paid membership and half the years fees! Not sure how to go about pulling her out at this point.
Her 3 falls happened quite quickly soon after each other. To me it did not seem like there was enough time to 'figure anything out". Between falls or between getting dumped and back up. The pony kept stopping first off she was having difficulty keeping him walking or trotting and then he seemed to figure out he could stop drop his head and dump her off. She truly has not had issues balancing or staying in her seat before this. Does NOT do well at sitting tall and back as others have noticed. That seems to be the biggest error that caused her to not be a strong enough rider in this moment. From reading comments here etc I now feel that 2 falls was quite enough and if that were to happen again I would step in at 2 and request a longer time off… encourage a change of some kind whether it be using a a lunge line etc
I could not hear her trainer in her lesson when she fell but dd reports after each fall it was pretty quick to “do you want a boost up”. And the advice given was to lengthen the reins and try to keep him going by digging in more. Not to sit up/back. (Although the other mom watching was calling that out to her often).
I asked the head trainer about giving instruction to prevent the exact issue happening…going over it off horse. Was told they prefer to do it on the horse…that she will ask the rider …what happened. What do you think went wrong. But that she as trainer would usually ask those questions once the rider is back up on the horse
I have no experience but but there seems to be wisdom in a discussion on the ground before climbing back up
Chiming in late but a couple things:
The “drop head, lower shoulder, send rider flying” is a common naughty pony trick. I would not put a beginner on a pony that does this. Sounds like there is some disagreement between the trainer and barn owner about this pony’s behavior and suitability for different levels of riders. Unfortunately, the only way to really learn how to deal with this nasty pony trick is to ride it out. It will definitely teach you to SIT UP! I was also the victim of this 3 times in one lesson, but I was 19 or so at the time, and game to figure that little bugger out.
IN THE OLD DAYS… the philosophy of falling off was, literally, if you aren’t bleeding to death and you know where you are then you get back on the horse. These days, with the knowledge we now have about head injuries, that really isn’t ethical anymore. Every rider should practice good judgement about getting back on the horse, and trainers should be cautious about letting students get back on. High school coaches, at least where I live, have to do concussion and heat illness training. I live in MA, which is the ONLY state that licenses riding instructors, but it is a written test that does not (or did not) include anything related to rider injuries and does not require any actual riding. Nor are instructors required to do the heat illness and concussion training. It’s ridiculous, really. I guess what I’m saying is what does happen is that the instructor asks the kid if they are ok and puts them back on the horse if they are. What SHOULD happen is that the instructor is trained in assessing athletes for concussion symptoms or other injuries and is able to assess the student.
I’m not sure about continuing at this barn. Since you’ve already paid for the IEA I might continue cautiously. It does not sound DANGEROUS, in particular, and really it could be SO MUCH WORSE. She does need more saddle time if she is to advance in her riding more quickly. You can always leave later if you see something you don’t like, or after the IEA season ends. Leasing is another thing people do to get more saddle time but she would need a more structured, more supervised lease. I would not be comfortable leasing a horse to anyone that can’t canter and jump small crossrails competently.
Thank you for your input. In my sit down with Barn staff I was told that this pony had never displayed that behavior before and has been up until that point a great schooling pony they have had many many a little kid up on him etc
I have been researching barns in our area. There are 2 pony club centers a half hour away, a pony club and another “recommended by a friend” barn that does IEA. The recommended barn is actually the one my friend said calls the parent for every fall off a horse. I have emailed a few for information and that specific barn has been very quick and professional with information.
There might be a chance to switch her IEA membership to the barn.
I plan to tour and maybe do a few lessons at different barns to broaden her experience with trainers…see if she feels it is a more positive experience etc.
For my daughter’s sake though I feel she should stick out the season at this barn…so it’s not like mentally “you fall, you get hurt, you move on!”. She may not be mature enough to understand that there are reasons prior to that event etc…
Very hard decision!!!
I do plan to ask them what she is to compete in IEA and ask her trainer if she had a full understanding of Maggie’s training before she started up with us.
Was it my job to tell the trainer “Maggie just started cantering a month ago!” Etc.
Do barns keep a tally of where their teaching students are at with training so they can progress in the proper way?
Hello there, long time instructor here.
Here are a few random reactions I have had while reading this thread.
Number one, please do not let someone teach your daughter to do what has been called the “emergency dismounts”, where the child lands on their feet. One of my best friends got a compound fracture of her tibia and fibula over three months ago because she did this. Subsequent research has revealed that this is “the perfect way“ to do acquire a spiral fracture. We have found 17 other people just in the northwest who have fractured this way. TUCK AND ROLL.
The truth is, riding is a high-risk sport. This is something that you as parents need to understand and accept. When someone signs their child up for lessons with me, I looked them straight in the eye and I tell them “it is not if your kid will fall off, it is when”. If you were going to start skiing lessons you do not for one second think that you’re never going to fall. Kids who become riders have to be able to weather hitting the dirt. It is a rough and tumble sport, and as such it involves taking some knocks. For some reason, I have noticed over the years that there are parents who do not seem to understand this. They see kids in clean breeches and boots in an arena, and somehow this spins this idea of a controlled environment. If they do not have personal experience with Horses, they do not understand that they are still animals, governed by a flight instinct, and may have random reactions. That never goes away. It’s part of the allure of riding to a kid who really loves horses.
That being said, there is a huge variation in different programs regarding providing children with the foundation skills they need so that that they fall fewer times. That involves work on the longe line with no stirrups or reins, having a certain number of hours in the saddle/proficiency demonstrated at specific skills required before cantering or jumping…
the place you’ve chosen for lessons sounds lacking in providing some of the basic instruction your dd could use. I recommend Finding a pony club based program, as they are usually more focused on nuts and bolts riding than the average hunter jumper barn.
It is never the Horse’s fault. This is something that is repeated in all programs as a form of good horsemanship. It is drilled into every rider’s head or should be. This does not mean that every horse is suitable to be ridden by every rider, and it does sound as if your daughter did not demonstrate the skills to be able to Handle a pretty standard pony trick. A savvy instructor would most likely have put her on the longe line after at least the second fall, and if she could not demonstrate control at walk or trot there is no way she should have cantered.
I know this is a reality check for you, but I hope that you find a better fit and continue your family’s horse experience. There are rewards to riding horses that are not found in any other sport. I know this is a reality check for you, but I hope that you find a better fit and continue your family’s horse experience. There are rewards to riding horses that are not found in any other sport.
An experienced instructor is able to evaluate a rider’s skill level almost immediately. However, as part of an intake process there should have been an interview involving questions regarding prior experience. They absolutely should have informed you that your child fell off, if you did not see it yourself.
So would it be reasonable for me to ask about the progression of skills and why no lunge line no stirrup/ rein free time before cantering?
I think it would be a waste of time to have that conversation.
If it was part of their system, they would have done it.
In my opinion, most of the time instructors in larger hunter jumper programs simply don’t want to take the time to do individual work with students. They are usually in group lessons, and the instructor make much more money per hour that way. Taking time for individual students during the lesson disrupts the flow for the other kids, and it just does not seem to be standard procedure. It is one of my complaints of that sort of environment.
Basically because your daughter was in a group lesson and being lunged you need an individual lesson.
So let’s start at the beginning .
1 What you are doing down the line your daughter will want her own pony/horse.
Poverty is owning a horse. You say you have a husband and other kids. Dont take that saying lightly.
To go with that saying. The purchase price is the cheapest part of owning a horse. Yes even if you pay several hundreds of thousands for the horse. Which leads to the next saying. Once you have a horse you don’t have a problem getting any more. Horses are always being given away because a person can’t afford it or can’t ride it.
Your daughter is at the age where they are more interested in fun. Group lessons are cheaper for you and more fun for her. Lunge lessons without stirrups are great lessons for her seat. But more expensive as you need a solo lesson and they are work not fun for her.
A group lesson you only progress as much as the lowest beginner in the class.
You don’t need to tell a good instructor anything about her riding. They can tell from one glance when they are on. Probably before they are on and the pony/horse knows more about the rider when the rider gets on. No matter how much experience they say they have or what pieces of paper they might have.
Your daughter does not have to jump. There is dressage, trail riding, western, reining. There is many different worlds our there.
Dressage is the trunk of the tree. Jumping is the branches, but you will hear many eventers say the only reason they do dressage is because they get to jump around a cross country course. To them dressage is work. Jumping is fun. But you can’t jump if you are not in control.
If you don’t know dressage. Google Grand Prix dressage test Charlotte Djarden Valegro and no 99.9% of us don’t get to that level.
Her lessons were privates up until the last few where it’s now semi-private with only one other student.
Then they are either lazy, unable to longe a student safely, or both.
I haven’t read all the posts. I’m not familiar with the IEA program, as far as what is necessary to start one. Basically it is a money maker for the BO. I know , I know, it’s modeled after the IHSA, but I know who runs them locally, and I know the quality of the instruction.
For some unknown reason that I find incomprehensible, the OP’s instructor’s don’t seem to understand that important word 'liability".
As a teacher, I’m very aware of that word. They also don’t seem to understand the word “safety”.
OP I know you have a fair amount of probably irretrievable money in the program. Therefore I would make a point of being present at all times when your daughter is riding. And I would start reading up on riding and teaching qualifications.
The present instructor may be a great rider, but is a clueless instructor.
Not sure if this is allowed but here is some video
the first the day she did her first poles and cross poles (is that what they’re called?). 5 months ago
https://youtu.be/UAcR-Ij3k40
Then this is last day of summer camp this year. Cantering etc. July so roughly 4-6 weeks ago.
”‹”‹”‹”‹https://youtu.be/xBhdL_EOcQ0
Many have given opinions on her skills and preparation from my description and the description of what happened when she fell. Not sure if these videos will help give an example of how she rides and some of her training.
I may not leave this post up very long as I can’t really edit out the trainers and I don’t want to “out” them…have tried to stay really ambiguous here. (Maybe y’all can advise me on that if they are even recognizable)
Either way I do think I will ask about backing up her training to some more balancing building skills…which doesn’t seem too far off track. And perhaps making the mention that she does not recall any practice with no stirrups, no reins on the lunge line to practice that balance…
OP-I believe our pigheadedness about getting back on after a fall is originally from our sport’s roots in cavalry. Our methods of instruction and training was brought to us straight out of European and American military. It is very much part of our tradition-maybe not smart, but there it is. Of course, the instructor should set the lesson up so a fall is unlikely. That should go without saying.
I hope you get your daughter’s instruction sorted out. Horses are so good for girls especially, and it’s a sport you can do all your life. You learn empathy for another creature, courage, patience and perseverance, kindness, love of the outdoors-all that along with the privilege of the company of horses.
If she’s already infected, look out. Good luck!
first the day she did her first poles and cross poles (is that what they’re called?). 5 months ago
https://youtu.be/UAcR-Ij3k40
Then this is last day of summer camp this year. Cantering etc. July so roughly 4-6 weeks ago.
”‹”‹”‹”‹https://youtu.be/xBhdL_EOcQ0
first the day she did her first poles and cross poles (is that what they’re called?). 5 months ago
https://youtu.be/UAcR-Ij3k40
Then this is last day of summer camp this year. Cantering etc. July so roughly 4-6 weeks ago.
”‹”‹”‹”‹https://youtu.be/xBhdL_EOcQ0
first the day she did her first poles and cross poles (is that what they’re called?). 5 months ago
https://youtu.be/UAcR-Ij3k40
Then this is last day of summer camp this year. Cantering etc. July so roughly 4-6 weeks ago.
”‹”‹”‹”‹https://youtu.be/xBhdL_EOcQ0
first the day she did her first poles and cross poles (is that what they’re called?). 5 months ago
https://youtu.be/UAcR-Ij3k40
Then this is last day of summer camp this year. Cantering etc. July so roughly 4-6 weeks ago.
”‹”‹”‹”‹https://youtu.be/xBhdL_EOcQ0
first the day she did her first poles and cross poles (is that what they’re called?). 5 months ago
https://youtu.be/UAcR-Ij3k40
Then this is last day of summer camp this year. Cantering etc. July so roughly 4-6 weeks ago.
”‹”‹”‹”‹https://youtu.be/xBhdL_EOcQ0
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
