Anyone do it? I’ve never dislocated my shoulder that I know of, it’s just super loose, but lately it’s becoming worse. When horsie leans in the reins or even half halts, it subluxates (sp?) and hurts like a SOB, but I can deal with that. The problem is when is does that, my arm is longer than the other one and pony turns. (he’s really sensitive). So I slow him down, get straight, and start all over again. Is there any way to prevent the subluxation? Or make it easier to deal with?
TIA!
My daughter has shoulder instability. Very loose and now almost every time she rides it pops out. It is super painful for her and she has not ridden much at all over the last 4 months, sorry to say.
Visited orthopedist who sent us to physical therapist. The whole area around the shoulder needs to become stronger. He gave her specific exercises for strengthening. Swimming is good. Visit a physical therapist. The only other option was surgery, which I am sure you don’t want to go down that road.
This became an issue for my daughter riding a very strong pony for a couple of months. One day, it just popped out of place and hasn’t been the same since. She tries to lesson on horses who don’t pull, but half halts, head shaking after jumps or just a small pull sets her back.
Pain relief meds and physical therapist are your best friends. Good luck. It sucks!
[QUOTE=luvmyottb;8546648]
My daughter has shoulder instability. Very loose and now almost every time she rides it pops out. It is super painful for her and she has not ridden much at all over the last 4 months, sorry to say.
Visited orthopedist who sent us to physical therapist. The whole area around the shoulder needs to become stronger. He gave her specific exercises for strengthening. Swimming is good. Visit a physical therapist. The only other option was surgery, which I am sure you don’t want to go down that road.
This became an issue for my daughter riding a very strong pony for a couple of months. One day, it just popped out of place and hasn’t been the same since. She tries to lesson on horses who don’t pull, but half halts, head shaking after jumps or just a small pull sets her back.
Pain relief meds and physical therapist are your best friends. Good luck. It sucks![/QUOTE]
Thank you! When I was first diagnosed, they sent me to a PT guy for two? three? months, but it stayed the same, no change, so we quit on that. Unfortunately, can’t swim. Neck/neuro issues. :sigh:. I still do most of the PT exercises every day, just in case, but honestly I might give up on those as there is no difference. I read somewhere about kinesiology tape? Do you know anything about that? Or is there a brace?
I subluxed for years before my shoulder finally went out and wouldn’t go back in. Had to go to the ER to get it reduced, and then went to the orthopedist. I had a Bankhart repair (?spelling) wherein they install some tiny titanium anchors and link the 2 bones together with suture (I guess). My shoulder was so loose they did it open, otherwise it would have been arthroscopic. The PT was not so much fun and went on for quite a while, but I think that’s because I had the open procedure. I haven’t had a lick of trouble since then and the MD told me it will not ever go out.
I cannot say anything about how long you’ll be off your horse. I did it when I started volunteering at the local therapeutic riding center, so I led horses on the “wrong” side until it was better. Started riding sometime thereafter. If you really are having major problems with it I would suggest you see an orthopedic surgeon, not just an orthopedist who doesn’t operate.
Tape may help. Haven’t tried it. Daughter almost needs a brace of some sort to keep shoulder on place. There is a trainer on our local circuit who rides with some strap device to keep his shoulder from popping out. I haven’t seen it, but our trainer has and she said it looks like a home made device.
Can you ask the PT who treated you if there is something you could wear to keep the shoulder in place? That is our next question to our PT.
My daughter forces herself to ride because she loves it, but knows its going to hurt every time. The pain is awful, I can see it on her face.
[QUOTE=walktrot;8546717]
I subluxed for years before my shoulder finally went out and wouldn’t go back in. Had to go to the ER to get it reduced, and then went to the orthopedist. I had a Bankhart repair (?spelling) wherein they install some tiny titanium anchors and link the 2 bones together with suture (I guess). My shoulder was so loose they did it open, otherwise it would have been arthroscopic. The PT was not so much fun and went on for quite a while, but I think that’s because I had the open procedure. I haven’t had a lick of trouble since then and the MD told me it will not ever go out.
I cannot say anything about how long you’ll be off your horse. I did it when I started volunteering at the local therapeutic riding center, so I led horses on the “wrong” side until it was better. Started riding sometime thereafter. If you really are having major problems with it I would suggest you see an orthopedic surgeon, not just an orthopedist who doesn’t operate.[/QUOTE]
How often was it sublaxing? Was it a common occurrence? Mine does it almost every day, doesn’t take much, sometimes just letting my arm swing when I walk it loosens and HURTS. Did you do PT first? Did it help? How did it come out?
[QUOTE=luvmyottb;8546730]
Tape may help. Haven’t tried it. Daughter almost needs a brace of some sort to keep shoulder on place. There is a trainer on our local circuit who rides with some strap device to keep his shoulder from popping out. I haven’t seen it, but our trainer has and she said it looks like a home made device.
Can you ask the PT who treated you if there is something you could wear to keep the shoulder in place? That is our next question to our PT.
My daughter forces herself to ride because she loves it, but knows its going to hurt every time. The pain is awful, I can see it on her face.[/QUOTE]
Hmm… I might try tape, and will certainly tell how it goes. I am looking into setting up another appointment, but want to avoid surgery if possible, so I’ve been looking at no-op doctors. IYO, do surgeons tend to go to surgery to fast?
A different way to go, but it worked for me after I tore my rotator cuff and could not fox hunt until after I had surgery: I stopped riding my hunt horse and started riding my daughter’s reining horse. He’s completely a one handed ride, but better yet, prefers a looped (very loose) rein --he works off seat cues and leg cues and hand position (feel of the rein on his neck). I started out with him quietly in hill toppers, but by the end of the season, we were in first flight --who knew he could jump? Anyway, that was 12 years ago and I never went back to riding “English” style even though I had the shoulder repaired. I do use English tack (of course, I fox hunt), but I’m a one handed rider pretty much all the time. I’ve found I prefer the squat, “old style” QH for riding over the TBs I used to hunt – however; this solution might not work for you as I have the impression you might be a trainer or someone who works with horses professionally. I like learning new disciplines and have no loyalty to one --learning to ride Western, and ride reiners was a new adventure. That the Western “style” allows me to continue to ride despite having a bad shoulder was more of an opportunity to learn something more. FYI when I was pregnant a million years ago, I took up driving and trained all our saddle horses to pull a small cart. Kids and I spent many a day driving on country roads --they were too little to ride --but I could still get my horse fix and be with my kids. So maybe a slight change in discipline to accommodate your current shoulder would work.
Foxglove
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8547015]
A different way to go, but it worked for me after I tore my rotator cuff and could not fox hunt until after I had surgery: I stopped riding my hunt horse and started riding my daughter’s reining horse. He’s completely a one handed ride, but better yet, prefers a looped (very loose) rein --he works off seat cues and leg cues and hand position (feel of the rein on his neck). I started out with him quietly in hill toppers, but by the end of the season, we were in first flight --who knew he could jump? Anyway, that was 12 years ago and I never went back to riding “English” style even though I had the shoulder repaired. I do use English tack (of course, I fox hunt), but I’m a one handed rider pretty much all the time. I’ve found I prefer the squat, “old style” QH for riding over the TBs I used to hunt – however; this solution might not work for you as I have the impression you might be a trainer or someone who works with horses professionally. I like learning new disciplines and have no loyalty to one --learning to ride Western, and ride reiners was a new adventure. That the Western “style” allows me to continue to ride despite having a bad shoulder was more of an opportunity to learn something more. FYI when I was pregnant a million years ago, I took up driving and trained all our saddle horses to pull a small cart. Kids and I spent many a day driving on country roads --they were too little to ride --but I could still get my horse fix and be with my kids. So maybe a slight change in discipline to accommodate your current shoulder would work.
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I would like to go pro, preferably as a rider, and LOVE jumping, so I want to go that way. I might try Western, I never thought of that. Do you feel that how you changed your riding affected your overall riding? Did it improve, or get worse, or stay the same? Also, is jumping difficult?
My husband had the same issue, and it just kept getting worse until he finally had surgery. He drives stick, and it got to the point that it started subluxating whenever he had to shift gears. By the time the ortho went in to fix it, he said the anterior muscle was so stretched out he could poke through it! I would suggest getting to an ortho surgeon that specializes in shoulders, esp. if you want to make your living doing something physical (like horses). I don’t think these things really get better on their own without intervention, esp. when they’ve gotten that bad as how you describe.
Rehab is a bear (as seems to generally be the case with shoulder injuries- I’ve broken one of mine so I know first hand). On the plus side, since he’s had the surgery (almost 15 years ago) he has had no issues with that shoulder being unstable. And he’s played basketball, skied/snowboarded (and fallen), plays tennis, and does Krav Maga.
Also, I’m very accident prone and have been seeing orthos since I was a young kid. Most that I’ve known over the years really try to avoid surgery if possible (they really did a lot for me to avoid it with my shoulder, and were successful at keeping me out of the OR for that), but that’s been my experience over the decades!
My daughter had recurrent dislocations. The orthopedic tech told me that she could get a smaller horse who didn’t pull or she could have shoulder surgery. We got rid of the big, strong, puller and got a 15.3h Irish horse. She events less and trail rides more, but has not had any more shoulder problems.
I think you need to find a shoulder orthopedist who specializes in sports injuries. Putting off surgery of this kind is simply making it a more complicated repair and a longer rehab, honestly. If PT did not work and you are subluxing daily, I think you are beyond the point of “no surgery”. I had a massive shoulder injury (broken bones, pins and screws, three surgeries) and my rehab really wasn’t that awful, not much more than for rotator cuff repair. Get to a good ortho. You are probably looking at 2 to 3 months of rehab, about the same as for an ACL repair, before you are back riding.
[QUOTE=Calvincrowe;8547729]
I think you need to find a shoulder orthopedist who specializes in sports injuries. Putting off surgery of this kind is simply making it a more complicated repair and a longer rehab, honestly. If PT did not work and you are subluxing daily, I think you are beyond the point of “no surgery”. I had a massive shoulder injury (broken bones, pins and screws, three surgeries) and my rehab really wasn’t that awful, not much more than for rotator cuff repair. Get to a good ortho. You are probably looking at 2 to 3 months of rehab, about the same as for an ACL repair, before you are back riding.[/QUOTE]
Yay, just what I’ve been hoping for. I think in the back of my mind I knew this, but have, like usual, been denying it. I just got back on after a lovely 3 month break, I’ve only been back riding for about a month, and have my first lesson on Friday. I REALLY want to show this year, would it be too bad to put it off until winter? I know several people (including me and horsie) that would be sad if I had to get off again for a while and miss shows, but if I went to an ortho in the winter I wouldn’t miss anything except a few months of schooling. Right? A few months won’t hurt?
To your questions, grandprixer: my opinion is that any riding is better than no riding, and all riding makes one a better rider. But certainly as someone who began in a 5-gaited Saddle Seat stable riding with hands high and behind the vertical, with a nearly straight leg; then evolving into a hunter/jumper rider, and ultimately a fox hunter, dabbling in dressage along the way --my riding is worse in every discipline as each (for showing) has its right and wrong ways to keep one’s leg and hands. My daughters who ride event horses frequently point out that I ride a chair-leg --common among old foxhunters who learned using heavily padded (knee and thigh) Stubban saddles. My kids also tell me I ride with my stirrups too long, grip with my calf instead of my knee, and tend to look down at my fences (you might notice many reining and western riders keep eyes down). So to answer your question, does changing disciplines make one a better rider --I don’t think so --probably made me a worse rider --but I’m certainly a safe and comfortable rider for all my faults. I ride A LOT --I rode over 500 miles last summer–250 of that was in the 11 day Michigan Shore to Shore Trail ride --the rest was getting ready for that trail ride. I ride first flight most Sundays Sept-April jumping everything (except one huge pile of logs that’s higher than my horse).
As to jumping --one handed jumping is almost a norm for many fox hunters, especially staff. We carry hound whips (not for hitting hounds but for snapping loudly to warn them back to the master). Hound whips are bigger than crops and I always carried mine in one hand and used my other for my reins --I think most do who carry hound whips and when I hunted, EVERYONE hunting carried a hound whip --“drop your lashes” was a command that everyone in the field followed if the pack was coming toward us and the field master felt we needed to turn them away. Now-a-days, it seems only staff carry hound whips --but as a former staff (whipped in for many years) and former master of the hunt (did that too for 5 years), I got in the habit of riding and jumping one handed. As one who jumps yourself, you know that you and your horse have committed to the fence considerably before you actually take it (my daughters say they prepare for the subsequent fence as they go over the one before on a cc course). My hunt horse (and reiner) is responsible for getting us safely over fences. My job is to stay out of his way. I actually am 100% sure he does not need my help in anyway, as there have been many, many times when I have no idea what we’ll jump next or how and he makes the call based on where he thinks the hounds are going. That’s his job. He’s as good at predicting hound movement as he is cow movement. I just stay out of his way.
So I don’t know if that helps --as I said, you sound more like a trainer/professional than I am --I just like riding my horse and he’s trained to accommodate my limitations as far as never pulling on the reins. I’m not sure myself if Western horses who use limited rein contact are “better” trained than “on the bit” English horses --but I could not ride a horse I had to “hang on to.” When (hopefully never) I need a new hunt horse --I’m going to look for another reiner . . .I may not look the part of the classic fox hunter on my squatty body QH, but I’m out there having fun.
Foxglove
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8548223]
To your questions, grandprixer: my opinion is that any riding is better than no riding, and all riding makes one a better rider. But certainly as someone who began in a 5-gaited Saddle Seat stable riding with hands high and behind the vertical, with a nearly straight leg; then evolving into a hunter/jumper rider, and ultimately a fox hunter, dabbling in dressage along the way --my riding is worse in every discipline as each (for showing) has its right and wrong ways to keep one’s leg and hands. My daughters who ride event horses frequently point out that I ride a chair-leg --common among old foxhunters who learned using heavily padded (knee and thigh) Stubban saddles. My kids also tell me I ride with my stirrups too long, grip with my calf instead of my knee, and tend to look down at my fences (you might notice many reining and western riders keep eyes down). So to answer your question, does changing disciplines make one a better rider --I don’t think so --probably made me a worse rider --but I’m certainly a safe and comfortable rider for all my faults. I ride A LOT --I rode over 500 miles last summer–250 of that was in the 11 day Michigan Shore to Shore Trail ride --the rest was getting ready for that trail ride. I ride first flight most Sundays Sept-April jumping everything (except one huge pile of logs that’s higher than my horse).
As to jumping --one handed jumping is almost a norm for many fox hunters, especially staff. We carry hound whips (not for hitting hounds but for snapping loudly to warn them back to the master). Hound whips are bigger than crops and I always carried mine in one hand and used my other for my reins --I think most do who carry hound whips and when I hunted, EVERYONE hunting carried a hound whip --“drop your lashes” was a command that everyone in the field followed if the pack was coming toward us and the field master felt we needed to turn them away. Now-a-days, it seems only staff carry hound whips --but as a former staff (whipped in for many years) and former master of the hunt (did that too for 5 years), I got in the habit of riding and jumping one handed. As one who jumps yourself, you know that you and your horse have committed to the fence considerably before you actually take it (my daughters say they prepare for the subsequent fence as they go over the one before on a cc course). My hunt horse (and reiner) is responsible for getting us safely over fences. My job is to stay out of his way. I actually am 100% sure he does not need my help in anyway, as there have been many, many times when I have no idea what we’ll jump next or how and he makes the call based on where he thinks the hounds are going. That’s his job. He’s as good at predicting hound movement as he is cow movement. I just stay out of his way.
So I don’t know if that helps --as I said, you sound more like a trainer/professional than I am --I just like riding my horse and he’s trained to accommodate my limitations as far as never pulling on the reins. I’m not sure myself if Western horses who use limited rein contact are “better” trained than “on the bit” English horses --but I could not ride a horse I had to “hang on to.” When (hopefully never) I need a new hunt horse --I’m going to look for another reiner . . .I may not look the part of the classic fox hunter on my squatty body QH, but I’m out there having fun.
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
It does help, thank you! I LOVE my current horse, his is big, athletic, and sweet as pie. Normally he does not pull too hard, and I only had issue on stops or half halts, but we’re still both getting back in shape and he doesn’t want to carry himself, so he tries to make me do it. He’s getting better, but making me quite sore, so that’s why I came on here. As I would like to keep him, would it be a good idea to send him to a Western trainer to be taught that? Could I teach him myself?
I think you can do it yourself with a couple of easy exercises --BUT my eventing daughter does not like to ride my horse because she “can’t feel his face” --she likes to “ride every footfall” and control every muscle. Each to her own. Anyway, to make your horse responsible for his speed --in other words, if you are walking, the horse should walk until YOU tell him to trot or stop. You should NOT (in my opinion) constantly have to kick him on or half halt him. His JOB is to walk until you say different. Here’s the practice:
You need a ring or a pasture fence (not electric --or electric off). Ask horse to walk closely, about 3 feet or arm’s length away, along the fence on a loose rein. The second he pulls, or trots --immediately turn into the fence (very tight turn) by reaching down and pulling the fence-side rein to your hip -turn-release and go the other way at the walk. If he pulls or trots, immediately turn into the fence, go the other way. In about 5-10 min, depending on horse, he’ll THINK about trotting or pulling, feel your hand move to turn him, and decide it’s easier to just keep walking. Do the practice for about 20 min --then do something else. You can fry their brains. Do it again the next day --try to do the practice 5 consecutive days, or better twice a day for 5 consecutive days AM and PM (yeah, but who has that kind of time?). When horse is quietly walking along the fence for the entire 15-20 min, move away from the fence. See how he does 15 feet away --then 20 --then try circles --but always at a walk, and the correction is a tight turn. DO NOT be cross, rough, or punishing. The horse is “self punishing” his own mistake. Again, watch your time on this. Once he’s walking on a loose rein, go to a trot. You’ll be back at square one, but he should catch on quicker. The WORST horse I ever had, still 'got it" by day 3 --some “get it” the first day. If you watch western kids in a show ring --they can slow their horses by putting weight in a stirrup (as if they were reaching for a rein) --very subtle, but horses do learn to be responsible for their own pace. Oh, some people do the practice at a canter --be sure you are on good footing and the horse has mastered the walk -trot before you do that --we call it a rollback in reining and our horses do that tight of a turn at a canter, but don’t know about a big long TB trying that at a canter --on the other hand, our upper level horse does a 10 m circle . . .anyway, that should lighten him in the bridle so he pulls less. FYI I always use a snaffle unless I’m showing western.
And, at some point, might want to add another horse to your practice so he learns to rate himself regardless of another horse trotting by him when he’s walking, etc.
Foxglove
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8548481]
I think you can do it yourself with a couple of easy exercises --BUT my eventing daughter does not like to ride my horse because she “can’t feel his face” --she likes to “ride every footfall” and control every muscle. Each to her own. Anyway, to make your horse responsible for his speed --in other words, if you are walking, the horse should walk until YOU tell him to trot or stop. You should NOT (in my opinion) constantly have to kick him on or half halt him. His JOB is to walk until you say different. Here’s the practice:
You need a ring or a pasture fence (not electric --or electric off). Ask horse to walk closely, about 3 feet or arm’s length away, along the fence on a loose rein. The second he pulls, or trots --immediately turn into the fence (very tight turn) by reaching down and pulling the fence-side rein to your hip -turn-release and go the other way at the walk. If he pulls or trots, immediately turn into the fence, go the other way. In about 5-10 min, depending on horse, he’ll THINK about trotting or pulling, feel your hand move to turn him, and decide it’s easier to just keep walking. Do the practice for about 20 min --then do something else. You can fry their brains. Do it again the next day --try to do the practice 5 consecutive days, or better twice a day for 5 consecutive days AM and PM (yeah, but who has that kind of time?). When horse is quietly walking along the fence for the entire 15-20 min, move away from the fence. See how he does 15 feet away --then 20 --then try circles --but always at a walk, and the correction is a tight turn. DO NOT be cross, rough, or punishing. The horse is “self punishing” his own mistake. Again, watch your time on this. Once he’s walking on a loose rein, go to a trot. You’ll be back at square one, but he should catch on quicker. The WORST horse I ever had, still 'got it" by day 3 --some “get it” the first day. If you watch western kids in a show ring --they can slow their horses by putting weight in a stirrup (as if they were reaching for a rein) --very subtle, but horses do learn to be responsible for their own pace. Oh, some people do the practice at a canter --be sure you are on good footing and the horse has mastered the walk -trot before you do that --we call it a rollback in reining and our horses do that tight of a turn at a canter, but don’t know about a big long TB trying that at a canter --on the other hand, our upper level horse does a 10 m circle . . .anyway, that should lighten him in the bridle so he pulls less. FYI I always use a snaffle unless I’m showing western.
And, at some point, might want to add another horse to your practice so he learns to rate himself regardless of another horse trotting by him when he’s walking, etc.
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
Than you so much. I will certainly try this when I ride this afternoon. I don’t know if I will ever have the courage to jump with one hand, but on the flat this should help TONS and at least be fun to try. Again, thank you!
Mine went out far from every day, and I think it stemmed from a bicycle mishap when I was in junior high. I had it fixed when I was about 52. But as someone said above, the more it goes out the worse the problem gets, which is why I wound up with an open procedure. There is only so much you can do to favor it and try to avoid problems. Keep us posted!
I never got my fixed (I am hypermobile with lose joints that all used to dislocate on the daily)
The way I deal with it, is by strengthing my small muscle groups. I do a ton of a strength training, and the moment I slack off, I know my shoulders aren’t going to stay in place where they are suppose to be. Luckily for me though, it doesn’t hurt that much anymore. Which is probably not a good thing, but it is what it is!
[QUOTE=AMWookey;8548662]
I never got my fixed (I am hypermobile with lose joints that all used to dislocate on the daily)
The way I deal with it, is by strengthing my small muscle groups. I do a ton of a strength training, and the moment I slack off, I know my shoulders aren’t going to stay in place where they are suppose to be. Luckily for me though, it doesn’t hurt that much anymore. Which is probably not a good thing, but it is what it is![/QUOTE]
Like I said, I tried PT and that did squat. What are some exercises you do?
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