which is why I quoted Kathy’s post and asked her to clarify her statements regarding the multiple people who’ve lost their careers to false allegations lodged with safe sport. I suppose we’ll all be waiting a good long while.
6 Likes
sarchasm, to be precise.
7 Likes
That was my favorite Sniglet of all time.
1 Like
Categories: Attorney Discipline, Disbarments
James Edward Kroetch [#95434], 68, of Orinda was disbarred effective August 22, 2018, ordered to notify clients of the discipline and perform other obligations under rule 9.20 of the California Rules of Court. Kroetch was convicted of a misdemeanor count of possession of child pornography, a crime involving moral turpitude. Kroetch was found to have possessed thousands of images and videos of sexual acts with children, which he shared online with others. Kroetch had no prior record of discipline.
So for all those asking for more information on the exact meaning of “sexual misconduct with a minor” in order to determine the validity of the suspension - do you need to know exactly what type of porn this lawyer was found to have to know if his disbarment was “worthy”? No? Then why does it matter what the exact misconduct in RG’s case was?
15 Likes
SS opponents on FB would probably argue the “child pornography” was just images of coaches hugging their students after they fell off their ponies. :lol:
23 Likes
I just went through the SafeSport Centralized Disciplinary Database. I selected cases based on the following pair of criteria:
- The sanction was “Permanently Ineligible” - meaning that I did not include people who had temporary measures, suspensions or non-permanent ineligibility.
- The adjudicating body was the U.S. Center for SafeSport - meaning that I excluded people whose bans were imposed by their NGB pre-SafeSport (for e.g. if a person was banned in 2015 by USA Volleyball, they were not counted).
Criminal Disposition: 89.04% (n=260)
Non-Criminal Disposition: 10.96% (n=32)
Criminal Disposition - Involving a Minor: 64.04% (n=187)
Criminal Disposition - Sexual Misconduct: 21.92% (n=64)
Sexual Misconduct Involving a Minor: 6.51% (n=19)
Sexual Misconduct: 3.77% (n=11)
Criminal Disposition (General): 3.08% (n=9)
Other (e.g. Intimate Relationship Involving a Minor): 0.68% (n=2)
Total Number of Cases: 292*
(While the Morning Call article citing Dan Hill’s statement of 285 was released on July 1st, I believe that his quotes came from a little over a week ago. For example, I know that two people from USA Swimming were given lifetime bans on 6/28/2019 and 7/1/2019, respectively. I will triple-check my numbers later this evening after a power-nap LOL).
I also want to note that the “Sexual Misconduct” and “Sexual Misconduct - Involving a Minor” categories are very broad. For example, Larry Nassar is listed as “Sexual Misconduct - Involving a Minor” with a 02/06/2018 decision date - even though he was sentenced to 60 years in federal prison for possession of images of child sexual abuse in July of 2017 + 40 to 175 years in state prison after pleading guilty to multiple counts of sexual assault of minors in January of 2018.
9 Likes
I am curious about this as well and curious about if these two infractions are actually carrying the same sanction from USEF’s point of view.
One difference here is that equestrian differs from some of the other sports in that training centers are frequently not members or have any real affiliation with USEF. By contrast, even a very local gymnastics training club is likely a member of USA Gymnastics. Same with just about any ice rink - it will be affiliated to USFSA. I believe this model is more common among the Olympic sports than the equestrian model, where trainers can just declare themselves instructors with an ad in the yellow pages and go to it, and USEF doesn’t even have a list of places people can go to take riding lessons.
Another difference is that equestrian is one of the few affiliated sports where you might come to it as a beginner as an adult, and where a lot of non-elite coaches don’t work with kids.
So if you take those two facts together, it’s much easier to have a situation where a gymnastics coach gets a total ban and no, cannot come in to clinic, and have that completely enforceable, compared to equestrian. Whether that’s something we want or need in equestrian, and where the line should be drawn, is a separate question.
4 Likes
Thank you for compiling and sharing this. (And for your participation here in general.)
I hope this is helpful in dispelling the idea that SafeSport is putting out lifetime bans left and right for noncriminal conduct.
11 Likes
Is it possible that is the case because that is the claim SS investigated? Could he theoretically face a second lifetime ban for the criminal disposition?
1 Like
@IPEsq I just contacted a SafeSport media representative to get a definitive answer. However, in my experience, @roseymare’s statement is the most likely explanation.
IIRC Nassar was “only” convicted of sexually abusing 10 (?) girls due to a plea deal (I may be getting the number wrong - I’m much more familiar with the class action lawsuit and USAG and MSU-facilitated cover-up than the specifics of the criminal convictions). SafeSport most likely investigated a case that was not apart of that plea bargain. If this is true, then “Criminal Disposition - Involving a Minor” would technically be an inaccurate description (even though I believe that any reasonable person knows that he is guilty of MANY more crimes that he was actually convicted of).
2 Likes
Sorry guys, bad example. won’t comment any further except…I am a #METOO and an abused and I had a poor choice of words relating to this sad, awful subject…again, sorry!
2 Likes
[quote=“Tackpud,post:1792,top. USHJA Executive Director Kevin Price, USHJA’s General Counsel Marianne Kutner, and I had a chance to ask Mr. Henry many questions regarding the processes that The Center has adopted.
The Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization Act was signed into law in 2018, establishing the U.S. Center for Safe Sport. This came about after some National Governing Bodies were found to have turned a blind eye to sexual misconduct within their sports.
SafeSport is a reality for the USHJA. We are bound under the Act for two reasons: the first is because Jumpers are part of the Olympic Movement; and second, we are an Amateur sports organization that participates in interstate athletic competition and our members include adults who are in regular contact with minor athletes.
One of the greatest concerns expressed by our membership is the extent to which fair and adequate procedural safeguards are afforded in the SafeSport process. Mr. Henry said that the SafeSport code calls for “fair notice and an opportunity to be heard.” He described that process in detail and the information is also available on The Center’s website. We further questioned the extent of the procedures provided prior to issuing a Temporary Suspension and Mr. Henry described it as follows:
When a complaint is received by The Center, a Temporary Suspension can be issued after an examination of three criteria: [LIST=1]
If these three criteria are met, the Temporary Suspension is issued in the form of a notification to the respondent and their sport federation. At that time, the respondent is offered a 72-hour window to ask for a hearing.
If a hearing is requested, it is typically conducted within 24 hours. The Center contacts JAMS (formerly known as Judicial Arbitration and Mediation Services) and an independent arbitrator is assigned to the hearing. The arbitrator is not connected to The Center. The Center’s attorney presents an opening brief and the respondent, or their attorney, testifies. The arbitrator makes the decision as to whether the Temporary Suspension is upheld.
We asked Mr. Henry if The Center would consider a delay in adding a person to the list until after the hearing. His answer was that The Center, knowing that in their opinion the preponderance of the evidence supported a Temporary Suspension, would be uncomfortable having the respondent in the environment where they could potentially abuse another minor. The Center’s investigators are former FBI, Children’s Services, NCIS, and Title IX investigators, as well as judges and prosecutors. They receive additional training in sexual abuse cases.
It is our understanding that the USEF has scheduled a meeting with The Center to explore modification of the process of placing individuals on the Temporary Suspension list. On the surface, that may feel more comfortable to some, especially when the violation occurred many years in the past.
In the past 10 days, I have received several calls from people who as minors were victims of a sexual assault 20-plus years ago. To them, the assault is fresh in their mind and the trauma has had a profound effect on their life. It is possible that the person who assaulted them has become a better person and that they are no longer a threat to minors. However, if the respondent is still in a position where he or she poses a potential threat to minors, that postponement of publication to the Temporary Suspension list may have serious consequences.
It is important for all of us to strike a balance for our sport. Mr. Henry has shown me that he is willing to listen to ways in which the SafeSport code can be improved. We will meet with The Center as necessary and will press for change where change is appropriate.
As I continue to meet with The Center, I will keep you advised as to any further information or substantive changes. In the meantime, I hope that you will continue to send me feedback, concerns and questions regarding SafeSport at mbabick13@gmail.com. Please remember that reports of abuse should go either to The Center or to law enforcement.
Serving you is our top priority, which means doing what’s best for our members, supporters and our sport. Together, we can make sure that our sport is safe for all our members. Thank you for your membership. I truly appreciate it.
Sincerely,[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0”]
[TR]
[TD=“width: 100%”] [TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0”]
[TR]
[TD=“align: left”][IMG]https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.constantcontact.com%2Ffe574f19001%2F910bdb25-fe36-4e2e-bfc0-c350ab72ebc1.png&t=1562176590&ymreqid=76817265-634f-fb3e-1cf0-4e206d01ea00&sig=tA4GVMZ1XTlYnnfjD8s4BQ--~C)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0”]
[TR]
[TD=“width: 100%”] [TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0”]
[TR]
[TD=“align: left”]Mary Babick
USHJA President[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/quote]
So if I read that correctly, even if USHJA separated from USEF, they would still be required to follow safesport?
2 Likes
Kathy, I get that this isn’t a comfortable crowd, but we are I think a pretty fair crowd. As we all know, as my coaches told me many times, sometimes being uncomfortable is part of growing. I encourage you to engage here when you want feedback from a larger crowd with a different take. I know you’ve been involved at trying to reach out and build more participation in governance and this is one place to do it.
From your message earlier in the thread, speaking as someone who knows what it is to herd cats online, I encourage you to take these steps with your group: [LIST=1]
31 Likes
Yes, all Olympic sports are required to participate in SafeSport by federal law.
3 Likes
Excellent suggestions! Especially 5 and 6.
6 Likes
Is her second point true though about minors and adults who compete together intrastate also are required to be SS members?
1 Like
interstate, yes, sort of.
Here’s a link for you, from an organization that sells insurance:
https://www.sadlersports.com/new-saf…organizations/
Which non-NGB sport organizations are required to comply?
Non-NGB sports organizations include those teams, leagues, camps, sports facilities, tournament hosts, churches, and schools that participate in interstate or international amateur athletic competitions, and whose membership includes any adult who is in regular contact with an amateur athlete who is a minor.
The reach of the federal act is limited to organizations that are engaged in interstate or international commerce or activities. Interstate competition refers to sports organizations that travel across state lines to compete. But even those that do not travel across state lines are indirectly impacted by the act because it sets a new standard of care that will likely apply to all organizations. Most states will also move to pass state-specific legislation that directly applies to sports organizations that do not cross state lines.
Non-NGB organizations have a bit more leeway in how they interface with SafeSport, but the training and mandatory reporting aspects apply. The polices about limiting one-on-one interactions between adults and minors still apply.
Of course the original legislation is online as well.
1 Like
I don’t think being able to earn a living is a huge limitation of SS. It’s not a sentence handed down by a judge. A conviction in court doesn’t always have life time restrictions. Jim Gorgio plead his case down in CT and only had to register as a sex offender for 10 years.
The only way to ban someone from the entire industry is for people to care more about doing business with ethical people than winning. WE as clients have the power to “ban” them. Any further ban by SS, ie you can’t have horses and teach lessons for the local circuit, would be a serious overreach IMO.
10 Likes
Hunters are not in the Olympics. Ushja = hunters
1 Like
