I don’t even know what to say to some of these posters, so I will not even attempt to respond, but I did want to post to thank the ones who took the time to calmly respond to those who were questioning SafeSport, the process, the victims, the details of the events, and so on. You all did a great job and stayed much more civil than I could have. Thank you.
17 Likes
This is too much- I have seen a lot in my life but someone supposedly well educated at a good university with a professional career to post this publicly? I am speechless.
This is too much- I have seen a lot in my life but someone supposedly well educated at a good university with a professional career to post this publicly? I am speechless.
11 Likes
Do you have information that Bonnie Conway is university educated with a professional career? It was not posted by the lawyer Bonnie Navin. I have not been favorably impressed with the stuff Navin has posted, but she has not sunk so low as the Conway post.
2 Likes
USA Today posted an article about RG’s death & how some of the equestrian community is up in arms about SS. I don’t know how to post links… perhaps someone else can post it.
1 Like
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport…ns/1597259001/
Uggggh. Most of these trainers would not accept this level of whining from one of their students.
“I had to walk a pattern with a girl this weekend, and we were the only two out in the middle of the arena,” Matton, the trainer, said recently. “Am I non-compliant? How do I do that?”
If he had, you know, read the rules, he’d understand that this is totally not a problem.
26 Likes
Interesting stats from the article:
Over 3250 reports filed to SafeSport since its inception, across all sports organizations.
285 lifetime bans total. 18 in equestrian disciplines.
Meaning less than 10% of reports result in a lifetime ban.
But sure, please tell me more about how SafeSport is ruining the livelihoods of horse trainers. :rolleyes:
In the article, Scott Matton cites walking a pattern with a minor student in the middle of a show arena to be a situation where he might be sanctioned for non-compliance. The willful ignorance of these opponents is now reaching the national press.
I thought it was interesting that Bill Moroney of USEF said, "We know that recently some of our affiliates have voiced concerns and questions over these policies and their implementation. Education is probably one of the most critical components of this process, and while we understand that the change is difficult, SafeSport is non-negotiable.
I hope that means USEF has additional education in the works to help quell some of the misinformation being spewed by opponents. They needed that additional education available, like, yesterday.
23 Likes
I think it would help to create some SafeSport for equestrian professionals specific training that addresses best practices and explains why those are best practices. I think some of the feeling is that guidelines made for other sports don’t fit horses. I don’t agree that we’re such special snowflakes, and for example in 4-H and FFA we have all the exact same issues, and those programs have adapted these rules seamlessly, livestock and all. (FFA possibly has it harder, since in FFA there’s often only budget for a single paid advisor; in 4-H everyone is a volunteer.)
One of the classes of behavior that is discouraged is one on one special get-togethers, as a kind of grooming. Despite the outcry we’ve seen in equestrian, I think there are some downsides to this practice even if the adult doesn’t have sexual intent. [LIST=1]
14 Likes
Exactly…it’s no different from the gymnastics coach being out in the arena with the gymnast! There is no need for more than one coach to “spot” the gymnast in competition! These riding trainers really DO need to actually learn what SS is properly…sigh…this is not the only sport where there is one on one times, but it’s when and when it not appropriate! It’s not rocket science and it’s working just fine in other sports
17 Likes
With respect to the statistics, of the 18 lifetime bans in equestrian, 14 are “criminal disposition” and only 3 were adjudicated by Safe Sport outside the criminal justice system (Gage, Steege, Lindsted). The last one, Cates, was adjudicated by USEF prior to the existence of Safe Sport.
12 Likes
This is an important point, as SS opponents like to paint a picture of scores of equestrian professionals having their lives and businesses ruined by unfair treatment.
Of course the very few lifetime bans issued by SS in equestrian are amplified by the relative importance of the names involved.
12 Likes
I couldn’t agree more.
I don’t think horse trainers are special snowflakes, either. I think there are multiple forces at play that cause many trainers to balk at SafeSport.
People don’t like change or rules, for starters. Trainers and barn owners are essentially self-employed private contractors, and it may seem like just another example of “big government” affronting small business.
Many horsemen & women have never worked in a formal workplace setting where these types of guidelines have become commonplace. When you tell someone you need to abide by the rules in a 38 page manual with no further guidance and no past experience to draw upon, it is natural for misinterpretations to arise. Especially when the SafeSport training module is so broad.
Then you have the factions of people who either a) don’t want to believe sexual abuse is occurring in our industry or b) are running scared because they’ve now learned their past transgressions could catch up with them. These factions seem to be the loudest when claiming false accusations, lack of due process, etc. While I don’t think you’ll ever eliminate these groups, further guidelines from USEF could prevent them from dominating the conversation among horse people.
Specifically regarding the group of people “running scared,” does SafeSport have a pathway for self-reporting? This is probably a dumb question. But I wonder if it would mitigate some fears if SafeSport had an option for remediation. I’m not sympathizing with abusers, but I do believe there are people out there who made mistakes yet are no longer threats to minors or society. Instead of just having these people lie in wait of a sanction, I wonder if allowing voluntarily reporting with the agreement of undergoing probation/monitoring/counseling would mitigate some backlash.
Sheesh, I’ve gone way off on a tangent. :lol:
14 Likes
I agree that those people who are balking at the SS system are scared, possibly for getting caught for past transgressions.
The trainers in 3 different barns that my daughters are involved with, all agree with SS and have no concern about SS rules. In fact, my daughters are both teenagers & the trainers have always texted me about lesson times or anything else. One barn has teenage working students & nothing is of concern. It’s business as usual. The group of WS all live together, work together & they mostly work closely with the female barn manager regarding barn chores or ride lists. The male trainer is very professional & most of his dealings with the WS are in the ring giving lessons or schooling horses.
15 Likes
The Safe Sport sanctions list has a total of 25 individuals listed. If it’s actually 800 reports, only some 3% are facing any kind of disciplinary action or investigation. I’d hardly say that reads like a witch hunt, kangaroo court, or unfair process.
14 Likes
Well, the fb reform group has lost me. Someone claiming to be a wrongful “victim” of the SafeSport accusation process and everyone leaping to his defense and believing his story verbatim … nope, I’m out.
13 Likes
It is pretty amazing. Didn’t the police find literally thousands of incriminating texts in his case?
4 Likes
FTR, RC seems to have been removed from the group. @khobstetter has actually done a really fine job of keeping this focused on reform that could potentially improve the process without removing the protections SS has set out to provide. It is really hard to keep up with what is going on in there, but there is a chance some good ideas can come out of it.
6 Likes
I wasn’t talking about RC. No texts in my case that I’m aware of, but enough evidence that it was taken to criminal court.
