Rob Gage

[lintesia]

@Texarkana

Specifically regarding the group of people “running scared,” does SafeSport have a pathway for self-reporting? This is probably a dumb question. But I wonder if it would mitigate some fears if SafeSport had an option for remediation. I’m not sympathizing with abusers, but I do believe there are people out there who made mistakes yet are no longer threats to minors or society. Instead of just having these people lie in wait of a sanction, I wonder if allowing voluntarily reporting with the agreement of undergoing probation/monitoring/counseling would mitigate some backlash.

Perhaps a designated period of Truth and Reconciliation?

[MHM]

@APirateLooksAtForty

I wasn’t talking about RC. No texts in my case that I’m aware of, but enough evidence that it was taken to criminal court.

It’s perhaps a little bit of a bad sign that there could be confusion over which abuser with a criminal history is posting on that page and getting lots of support. :rolleyes:

I thought there was a post there by RC within the last day or two.

[Denali6298]

@APirateLooksAtForty

I wasn’t talking about RC. No texts in my case that I’m aware of, but enough evidence that it was taken to criminal court.

Giorgio?

[roseymare]

@specifiedcupcake

The Safe Sport sanctions list has a total of 25 individuals listed. If it’s actually 800 reports, only some 3% are facing any kind of disciplinary action or investigation. I’d hardly say that reads like a witch hunt, kangaroo court, or unfair process.

Yep. And therefore doubtful there is confirmation bias to “catch” people.

[millerra]

From the US article

50 sports = 285 bans which is an average of 5.7 per sport.

18 are from the equestrian sport.

I think these statistics may give insight into why so many are against safe sport. Too many dirty secrets and bad behavior in the culture of the sport…

[dags]

@MHM

It’s perhaps a little bit of a bad sign that there could be confusion over which abuser with a criminal history is posting on that page and getting lots of support. :rolleyes:

For serious.

@MHM

I thought there was a post there by RC within the last day or two.

There was, but now his name is greyed out next to it.

[MHM]

@dags

There was, but now his name is greyed out next to it.

Ah. Thanks.

So he’s still posting there, but they are hiding his identity?

[Midge]

@MHM

Ah. Thanks.

So he’s still posting there, but they are hiding his identity?

Usually greyed out means they are no longer in the group.

[Moesha]

@YankeeDuchess

Do you have information that Bonnie Conway is university educated with a professional career? It was not posted by the lawyer Bonnie Navin. I have not been favorably impressed with the stuff Navin has posted, but she has not sunk so low as the Conway post.

Sorry from what I was told she went to Pepperdine and has a career - although what exactly she does I honestly cannot say. She has a right to her opinion but posting that was horrible

[FiSk123]

@millerra

From the US article

50 sports = 285 bans which is an average of 5.7 per sport.

18 are from the equestrian sport.

I think these statistics may give insight into why so many are against safe sport. Too many dirty secrets and bad behavior in the culture of the sport…

I still haven’t had a chance to triple-check Gymnastics and Track/Field, but the sports with the most U.S. Center for SafeSport adjudicated bans are:

Gymnastics - 50
Track/Field - 41
Hockey - 28
Basketball - 27
Swimming - 24
Volleyball - 24
Equestrian - 18
Water Polo -9
Boxing - 7
Taekwondo - 7
Wrestling - 7

[Midge]

I find it ironic that the very people up in arms because SafeSport ‘murdered’ Rob Gage, are the ones who led other women to eventually step forward to clear the air and make it clear he was a child molester.

[2bayboys]

@Midge

I find it ironic that the very people up in arms because SafeSport ‘murdered’ Rob Gage, are the ones who led other women to eventually step forward to clear the air and make it clear he was a child molester.

Yes, they were demanding transparency and they got it. Be careful what you wish for, huh.

[MHM]

@Midge

Usually greyed out means they are no longer in the group.

I see. Thanks.

[MHM]

@Midge

I find it ironic that the very people up in arms because SafeSport ‘murdered’ Rob Gage, are the ones who led other women to eventually step forward to clear the air and make it clear he was a child molester.

We will never know, but I wonder how many of those people knew perfectly well what had happened, but never predicted such a turn of events. I am willing to believe that there were probably some people who were genuinely unaware. It would be interesting to know the percentages of each group.

[INoMrEd]

@millerra

From the US article

50 sports = 285 bans which is an average of 5.7 per sport.

18 are from the equestrian sport.

I think these statistics may give insight into why so many are against safe sport. Too many dirty secrets and bad behavior in the culture of the sport…

I’ve been following this thread and have been keeping up with all 99 pages.

Since I grew up in the H/J scene in California in the 70’s and 80’s I agree that there are most likely a ton of dirty secrets and past bad behavior. I agree that many are most likely very worried about it coming to light as a result of Safe Sport.

[Mardi]

@CindyCRNA

I get what you are saying. When I was in school in the 70’s, our teachers hugged us. It was great. Now a teacher won’t even put a hand on a students shoulder. It’s just a sad commentary on today’s society.

Just to add…a friend is a well known European clinician who comes to the US regularly to teach. Beginning a few years ago, he asks each rider for permission to touch him/her before he adjusts the stirrups, and/or body position in the saddle. He does it regardless of the rider’s age. He asks in a clear and louder than usual voice so those standing farther away by the ring’s fence can hear the question and the reply.

[YankeeDuchess]

@MHM

We will never know, but I wonder how many of those people knew perfectly well what had happened, but never predicted such a turn of events. I am willing to believe that there were probably some people who were genuinely unaware. It would be interesting to know the percentages of each group.

  I think there were probably many people who knew him professionally but not as a close personal friend who honestly had no idea of the child abuse. 
   His lawyer Bonnie Navin must have known all the details. As his lawyer, she has to represent his interests in the proceeding, but I think she was irresponsible in fomenting the FB mob. Her posts nursed along the “accuser [singular] was 17, it was Romeo and Juliet, yadda, yadda, yadda” myth, the “He didn’t even know the name of his accuser” myth, etc. when she must have known better. She also posted ridiculous statements like “In the beginning, Safe Sport was handing out lifetime bans to everyone, and 90% were overturned in arbitration.” Hunh? Care to document that? No, probably not. 
    I think Bonnie Navin’s FB campaign is designed to discredit Safe Sport (with true statements, false statements, misleading statements, confusion, whatever works) as preparation for her next case. She as zero credibility with me.

[DMK]

@FiSk123

I still haven’t had a chance to triple-check Gymnastics and Track/Field, but the sports with the most U.S. Center for SafeSport adjudicated bans are:

Gymnastics - 50
Track/Field - 41
Hockey - 28
Basketball - 27
Swimming - 24
Volleyball - 24
Equestrian - 18
Water Polo -9
Boxing - 7
Taekwondo - 7
Wrestling - 7

Yeah, I’m not sure you can put too much in that 5.7 per sport number since it doesn’t take into account the membership so we don’t know the percentage, which is a more accurate way to identify the problem. I would guess that the top two on the above list have the most membership, but given all the old AHSA/USEF affiliates, equestrian is probably a large affiliate as well.

In other words, not enough data to say the problem is statistically larger in equestrian.

(FYI - as regards Bonnie Conway, her fb profile lists Pepperdine U as her alma mater. Of course that does not mean it’s true, but that is what is there)

[FiSk123]

@DMK

Yeah, I’m not sure you can put too much in that 5.7 per sport number since it doesn’t take into account the membership so we don’t know the percentage, which is a more accurate way to identify the problem. I would guess that the top two on the above list have the most membership, but given all the old AHSA/USEF affiliates, equestrian is probably a large affiliate as well.

In other words, not enough data to say the problem is statistically larger in equestrian.

(FYI - as regards Bonnie Conway, her fb profile lists Pepperdine U as her alma mater. Of course that does not mean it’s true, but that is what is there)

You are 100% right. It is also worth nothing that these numbers only apply to individuals who were banned by the U.S. Center for SafeSport (not the NGB). I plan on adding ban:membership ratios soon. Some of the membership numbers are not available online or range widely between sources, however.

As @YankeeDuchess alluded to earlier, Mary Babick released a statement on June 15th which included the following excerpt:

"No one claims that we do not have a problem in our sport or disputes the incidences that have been reported in this case. People tend to fall into two camps- those that believe we should draw an arbitrary time line in the sand and say, “Nothing before this date counts.” And, there are those that believe every report matters and every reporter should be heard.

This brings up one of the biggest problems that I have with the idea that SafeSport should institute statute of limitations. Several of the older cases (20+ years) that resulted in a final sanction included evidence from the reporting party’s own words (audio recordings, text messages, emails, letters, etc) - some even consisting of the perpetrator’s full-blown confessions to multiple people. For most of these survivors, the civil and criminal statue of limitations had run out.

Furthermore, the U.S. Center for SafeSport was created because the USOPC and individual NGBs were mishandling (and, at times, actively covering up) incidents of abuse. The goal is not only to make a better tomorrow, but to try and right the wrongs of yesterday. While I wholeheartedly believe that SafeSport is in need of some major improvements, I am deeply saddened by the vast number of people who want to either ignore the dark past of the sport or, even worse, return to that past by solely relying on the authorities to police predatory behavior.

[OverandOnward]

@Texarkana

…
Specifically regarding the group of people “running scared,” does SafeSport have a pathway for self-reporting? This is probably a dumb question. But I wonder if it would mitigate some fears if SafeSport had an option for remediation. I’m not sympathizing with abusers, but I do believe there are people out there who made mistakes yet are no longer threats to minors or society. Instead of just having these people lie in wait of a sanction, I wonder if allowing voluntarily reporting with the agreement of undergoing probation/monitoring/counseling would mitigate some backlash.

Sheesh, I’ve gone way off on a tangent. :lol:

I think that is a great idea, allowing people with a past to ‘turn themselves in’. If they are not a current threat, to deal with it appropriately through SS, and allow everyone to move on.

Hypothetically such a program could even reduce some of the backlash and the objections to SS. I do think that a lot of the resistance is generated by fear and dread of tomorrow’s news, the fear of old dirty secrets being aired and disrupting the settled social milieu of the community. After all, if people truly believed that everyone they ever associated with was innocent as a dove, then why are they so worried? And why would they assume that strangers outside their own community are innocent victims of SS? The truth is that they know things or suspect things, but don’t want to deal with those things publicly.

The one question is how confidentially it would or could be handled, and how much confidentiality would even be possible. The victims may feel a need that other people be aware of what happened to them. It might not sit well with the victims that, whatever the resolution of the case, they would be expected to continue to maintain the silence and secrecy. And anyway, there would be no controlling all the people who would be in the know, due to the investigation.

But the idea generally has merit, IMO. If a way to make it fair to everyone could be worked out.