I have been in this industry for 50+ years, and to me this is what the fuss is about for many trainers. They have enjoyed so much power and don’t want to give it up. As they say, “absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
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I don’t exactly agree with what others have been saying, but I have not once seen the actual sexual harassment of the girl being debated. Not one person has said the victim was lying about that.
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Thanks for your response. I do think YD was spot on - FiSk123 is a really excellent choice for this task.
I have digested the criticism concerning how I have approached this whole issue of the OpEd a bit more, and it has caused me to do some personal soul searching. I have learned over the course of years that the essence of good communication is when the intent behind someone’s words aligns with the impact they have on the intended audience. I definitely fell short in a major way when trying to post on the forum about my reaction to this OpEd. And that I regret. My opinion is unchanged, but I am appreciative of your honest dialogue with me, and your reaction. these ARE important issues to me, it is important to get it right, and I hope to do better in the future when trying to communicate my feelings and perspective about them.
And on that note, I’ll pound my kitchen table just to make sure it’s out of my system, and peddle backwards carefully while going about a few things I need to get done today 
:o
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Are you referring to me in particular as someone who thinks “that a victim of sexual harassment is lying” but does not have the courage to say it outright, and that all of the electrons I have spilled attempting to explain why COTH screwed up is just saying it in a gutless, sneaky way?
Of the three women who claimed sexual assault by Kavanaugh, I think that the last two were liars. On the first one, the one who testified, I believe that the groping happened, and the groper may or may not have been been Kavanaugh.
Some things have changed since 1981. In 1981, getting groped over your clothes by a high school peer was called “second base”, not sexual assault. If unwanted, it was rude, obnoxious, not OK, and deserving of a knee in the groin, but it was not described as sexual assault in 1981. In 1980, I was the victim of rape (by a stranger). That was sexual assault in 1981.
The Yale woman and the woman after that I straight up didn’t believe. The final woman later admitted she was lying.
BTW, I could care less if the COTH gets their ass sued. I was saying that I would have expected that they, the COTH, would have wanted to avoid exposing themselves to the possibility of a lawsuit. Or having to issue an embarrassing retraction. For myself, I was offended by their mishandling of the young woman’s contribution. Words matter.
The question was not rhetorical. Are you accusing me of disbelieving a victim of sexual harassment but not having the courage to say it straight up?
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Thank you.
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No worries 
Sometimes back pedaling is a good thing. Your comment was tough, but I appreciate that we have gotten to a place where we can actually joke about it. That’s actually pretty great - and helps improve dialogue in general.
These issues are all REALLY important to talk about. That’s why those of us who have followed this thread, Facebook, and chosen to engage have done so. I am willing to own it when I step in it. And even crack a joke or two. :winkgrin:
I wish we had a more extensive selection of emojis to use though on the forums. We would probably all argue less, and lighten up and laugh more, iand consequently have better dialogue if we used more emojis in some of these tough discussions…
And it probably would help if posters like me stopped with the long diatribes :uhoh: I’ll own that too. It’s hard, when I get passionate, and frustrated, I sometimes flip into a 6th gear in terms of words. Lots and lots of words start coming out. my husband actually gave me a coffee mug with “brevity is the soul of wit” on the side of it a few years ago. his way of giving me a gentle reminder if I have been tanking up on coffee all day long (I do pretty frequently :p)
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I’m pretty sure I am the one who has been accused of being gutless and sneaky and creative. 
You have been much better, and more effective at making a case about the Op Ed being problematic. For sure.
Be careful about “P” coming into this. The thread could spiral right back into DEFCON 5 territory.
I will only say that as a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, and sexual assault at a party in high school in the 90’s in a situation that involved drinking and being dosed with drugs, and then having my reputation relentlessly trashed on a school-wide basis afterward because it was widely accepted I had “chased” this guy and was a total floozy (I had been flirting and had a small crush on him before he chose to dose my drink at that party)…
I understand what you are saying about differences in what we used to describe as sexual assault in different eras, and frankly… high school “bullying.” Your reactions to things you have mentioned resonate with me.
I admittedly have some personal challenges in terms of how I have experienced and processed and dealt with my own trauma from my own experiences… and much of what I see and hear represented in the media concerning certain public cases from the last several years, and how other people describe “trauma.” And sometimes it frankly REALLY agitates me. Because it’s a pretty serious tightrope to walk when you have doubts about the credibility of a VERY public case, but also actually ARE intensely supportive of improving what can be improved for victims of sexual abuse and sexual assault and sexual harassment.
Recent very public cases involving bizarre hoaxes such as the Rolling Stone case, and the Duke lacrosse case actually devastated me personally. It’s so incredibly destructive to have situations like that spin wildly, and nationally, the way that they did. I believe and know cases like this are INCREDIBLY rare. But there is an element of “correlation” when it comes to hoaxes, and an element of someone seeking the limelight, and using a false allegation to advance a particular personal agenda of some sort related to any number of issues. And it upsets me tremendously when these cases happen. The 3rd Kavanaugh accuser who was put forward by Avenatti was definitely an example of this. And had mental challenges of her own of some kind. He exploited her, in my opinion, for his own agenda. And exploited the issue of sexual assault of women as well just to grind an ax and get some limelight. And it was an awful thing for anyone following that case who did believe in and support the other accusers, and not want the nomination to go through.
I truly loathe those sorts of tactics (the kind Avenatti transparently engaged in with the 3rd, completely discredited woman), and feel it is an INCREDIBLY destructive thing. It offends me as a survivor in a deep way.
I hope this makes sense, and others can take it for what it is, and we don’t get into unfortunate arguments. Anyone who wishes to respond thoughtfully with a different perspective is welcome to do so, however.
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As someone who has been subject to the line-by-line dissection of “well it couldn’t have happened that way and if it did her reaction should have been this other thing” I would say it totally came across as that to me, even if it didn’t literally say that and even if it wasn’t the intent. To hear it from someone I respect was very hard. Reading it was super traumatic for me and no one was talking about me. So I really appreciate the reflection that everyone had on that point.
I think if it had just been about, “I wish COTH had edited that to be less detailed” or the disagreement with her take on MAAP it would have been fine. I do disagree with her about her take on MAAP even if I understand why she finds it inconvenient.
As has been posted here recently, I think it’s really important to convey that the MAAP guidelines are for the protection of adults, not so much to protect minors or as a strategy to prevent abuse. They’re there to create an expectation and description of what professional behavior is, which protects everyone from misunderstandings. We’ve long needed to train professionals in our sport about standards of behavior and ethics.
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Thanks, Poltroon. I had a long post I was working on that I decided to not post (part of which lamented that fact that since the author’s name was used frequently here, it would come up in search results for her…and I doubt she has a PR machine behind her to create press releases to push the results down as one dressage rider seemed to have).
I will let it go.
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tinysecondderailment yeah, the animators were pretty up front with their ironic send up of Leni Riefenstahl’s work (anyone who thinks they were embracing fascist regimes was missing the point, and probably never met a Disney animator). The writers were also poking fun at Jeremy Irons’ role as Claus von Bulow as well. This didn’t mean they were really into killing your spouse with insulin.
But yes, 100% on the other topic. Please let it go. If the point has not yet been made, I do not think another 30 paragraphs will change things.
Barring that, we may need to derail into the the many ways Disney animators were subversive when it came to their work.
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Just a quick note to say that while we don’t always agree, and while I have bristled at a few of the ways you’ve characterized statements I’ve made, I really do appreciate your ability to reflect…
In that spirit, I will say that I wasn’t entirely charitable in my posts or clear in pointing out where we do agree. I could have used a few more of these and less of this. 
, although I like to stay more in the land of this: :winkgrin:
Apologies as well to those following along that felt I went too far in dissecting the OpEd.
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Ditto.
As has been posted here recently, I think it’s really important to convey that the MAAP guidelines are for the protection of adults, not so much to protect minors or as a strategy to prevent abuse. They’re there to create an expectation and description of what professional behavior is, which protects everyone from misunderstandings. We’ve long needed to train professionals in our sport about standards of behavior and ethics.
I have almost posted this a couple of times earlier on this thread when the subject of HR came up, but I refrained until now.
I have been around horses and horse people for a long, long time. Probably longer than many people on this BB have been alive. In all that time, I’ve never once seen or even heard of a barn with any sort of HR department. Or a handbook. Or any guidelines for boundaries, personal issues, etc., etc. Maybe such barns exist, but they are probably about as common as barns that pay overtime. In other words, virtually nonexistent.
The closest thing to that would probably be a long-term employee who might say to the new employee, “That’s not the way we usually do things here.” And that is the best case scenario in a place that actually has long-term employees. All of these recent changes might be beneficial, they might be necessary, and they might be long overdue. But they will still be completely foreign to many, many people in the horse world, and it will take some time and effort for all of those people to overcome the habits of a lifetime.
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I think since they are named Minor Athlete Abuse Prevention policies that they are intended to protect minors and as a strategy to prevent abuse. But I think most of us know that predators/abusers will find their way around them.
MAAP does have the added benefits of protecting adults, though, as long as they are adopted.
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I actually just checked this out to see if this thread would come up on s search result if you googled the author’s name - it didn’t. Which I am glad of. I believe almost everyone who got into the weeds discussing the Op Ed in detail used first, or last name. Not both together.
If I am missing something… let me know. Seriously. :yes:A permanent negative search result tied to her name that pops up on Google is not something I intended. :no: If it’s an inadvertent impact… I’ll go back and edit or delete every single one of my posts.
I’ll respond shortly to your second post, which I appreciate :tickled_pink:
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For the purpose of accuracy (and we know how people on this thread are such sticklers for accuracy), the Disney OpEd I posted earlier was about the NEW 2019 Lion King movie that released a few days ago. Some of the posters quick to comment (criticize?) earlier misread the OpEd (and my posts) and authoritatively reacted from their own 1994 animated movie experience. They couldn’t have made a reading error and jumped to a conclusion based on personal bias, could they <gasp>? :lol:
One could argue that 2019’s hyper PC “land of a million lawsuits” would lead corporate America to extreme sensitivity to any perceived negative connections. Particularly when the connection is between Disney and a vile figure like Hitler. That’s why the OpEd author’s confident examples and statements (dare I say, posted as facts?) made such as splash.
Moving on. :winkgrin:
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It will show … It takes time. For instance, if you Google “Rob Gage,” this thread comes up very high in the search results.
You can delete her name rather than delete your posts.
I understood that the Lion King review or OpEd was written about the new release and not about the animated version. I’m of the age such that I have seen the animated version many times. I think the write up of the OpEd pointed out that both the animated version and the new version have essentially the same story.
You brought up the OpEd on the Lion King movie to rebut my claim that a serious publication would not publish an OpEd that presented opinions as facts. Are you still saying that? [Rhetorical]
I thought then, and still think, that your example of the Lion King OpEd being published in the Washington Post does nothing to support your claim that a serious media outlet would knowingly publish an OpEd which, beyond expressing an opinion, also misrepresented facts. I was frankly baffled by your belief that the review supported your position.
I thought the follow up that some young people were indignant that the 1994 version contained a rip off of a stormtrooper scene in Star Wars was hilarious, though.
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I greatly appreciate this.
There have certainly been some intense arguments on this thread. But for the most part, everyone still participating and following is doing so because they care greatly about these issues.
In real life, I have a tendency to be pretty expressive with my face, and crack a lot of jokes and smile. When getting into heated debates with friends, which sometimes happens… I find that when we both reach the point of feeling :mad:
it’s important to pause. Try and listen :nonchalance: And attempt to understand why the other side of the heated debate got to the point of feeling :mad:
And when I have done something that caused things to degrade in a manner I didn’t intend… I try and own it. :concern:
I value the people in my life in real life, on social media, and posting on the forum who reciprocate and try and meet halfway. :o It’s not always possible… but when it is… its worth it to make an attempt. I appreciate those who meet me halfway.
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