Rob Gage

McLain Ward weighs in:

[URL=“https://www.facebook.com/mclain.ward/posts/10159287645681515”]https://www.facebook.com/mclain.ward/posts/10159287645681515

Over the last two days I have been following the tragic news of Rob Gages suicide, it’s possible explanation and it’s connection to sexual misconduct (let’s start by calling it what it is) and all of the emotions and opinions regarding Rob as a person and the “Safe Sport” policies. I often think life would be more peaceful, certainly less controversial if I kept my thoughts to myself but that has never been my way. If people like myself within our sport are not willing to at least bring up these conversations for thought, debate and hopefully better solutions than who will. I feel it is our responsibility as persons of influence in our sport and our community to tackle these difficult topics head on and hopefully prevent tragedies like we have now seen on both sides of this issue. Furthermore I chose to participate in a video in support of Safe Sport. I made that choice because I do firmly believe there are many people in our community, not just young people who are vulnerable, and it is our responsibility to continually find ways to offer them support and some protection. I made the choice to participate in that video despite always having some concerns with the implementations of safe sports policies and the possible collateral damage that could be caused by a system that frankly seems to have a lot of holes. The reality is though that it has become very clear over the last decade that abuses have happened, people have been taken advantage of, and terrible assaults have been perpetrated. Some steps had to be taken to protect that segment of our community and hold the perpetrators responsible. People needed to be aware that these abuses were happening and being unreported and ignored. Having a young family myself and being a mentor to many young adults I thought it was important to be supportive of such efforts. Over the last year though I have seen many situations that seemed very unclear, often unfair and certainly questionable in their due process. I also have no doubt that these problems and shortcomings in the safe sport process have adversely effected both the accuser and accused equally. What does seem clear is that the safe sport policies are broken in their application, that very little information regarding cases is made public even in a redacted form so that the community understands better the accusations and the process clearly and very little regard is being given to the effects on the accused life and livelihood before due process is applied. I try to look at this very serious issue from both sides the best that I can. As much as I see holes in the safe sport process and objectives I also think about what if it was my daughter that was abused or taken advantage of. I don’t have the answers but I do think our federation who represents all of us within this sport has to step and be at the forefront of how and when these procedures and policies are implemented. I realize that safe sport is a congressional mandate but that does not mean our representatives can’t be intimately involved and at the forefront of clearly explaining every step of the process and the reasons for the policies with transparency to its membership. As I said in my speech last year at the convention, we need to be not afraid to be the experts of our industry and our sport.

I only knew Rob in a casual manner, and he always seemed like a nice man. I must say that until these recent allegations I had never heard a bad word spoken about him, which is a rarity in our sport and industry. I do not know the particulars about the allegations against him or even who his accusers are, again we as a community have so little information about this somewhat secretive process that we are all in the dark and it is ripe for rumor and innuendo. To be honest most of us have almost no idea how safe sport works, who and where the mandates come from and who is charged with investigating and determining the steps taken. My hope though is that through this incredible tragedy, and the tragedies associated with any abuses perpetrated on anyone that we come together and find a better way to regulate and monitor conduct within our sport. I hope that Robs death along with frankly the shocking stories of abuses within our sport align us as a community to pull down the curtain on not only an ugly underbelly of misconduct but the process in which we use to address that conduct.

McLain Ward

8 Likes

I feel Safe Sport would do well to publish an abstract about the cases that result in a lifetime ban for people redacting all names and locations. However I also don’t think that would satisfy people who are railing so hard against this.

McClain’s statement is appalling. He agrees with all the nay sayers and wants the fox to guard the hen house. So what he made a video.

I honestly feel the people that that are asking for transparency are doing so in order to suss out the accuser. Not saying that’s McClain’s reason, but the reason of everyone else calling for it that is victim shaming.

14 Likes

Question from an outside observer… coincidence that he grew up training with Jimmie Williams? It seems quite conceivable that young male students who went on to become professionals in the industry repeated behavior modeled by Williams…

Surely I am not the only person noticing this tragic connection…

19 Likes

The connection between the two is not a red flag, and it shouldn’t be, unless one is crazy enough to think that every male person that was ever connected with Jimmy Williams during his lifetime should be investigated for no reason other than they were associated with Jimmy Williams at some point in Jimmy Williams’ lifetime. Which is ridiculous.

To summarize, I HOPE you are the only person who has decided that it is “quite conceivable” that any young male student who was ever associated with Jimmy Williams should be assumed to be a suspect for immoral/illegal behavior. That’s disgusting.

2 Likes
1 Like

Uhhh - this is obviously NOT what I said.

Rob Gage was investigated because someone… apparently multiple someone’s… reported something via SafeSport.

How do you go from that, to claiming that I am saying any male student EVER associated with Jimmy Williams should be investigated?

What I said was that it is a fact that Rob Gage rose as a child in Jimmy Williams program. What went on in that program with Williams and underage female students was widely known. If you want to call me “crazy” and “disgusting” for wondering if Williams’ terrible example of how an adult professional male jumper coach can interact with their underage female students was in any way connected to problematic behavior on Gage’s part at some point in the 70’s and 80’s… ok.

I’m not accusing anyone else of anything. Just noticing an obvious connection.

25 Likes

Don’t worry, I’m sure most of us noticed that what was attributed to you was not what you said, and didn’t even logically follow from what you said.

11 Likes

Ditto. And I wondered exactly how much of an influence JW had on his life. If he thought at one point any of this was okay he is a victim of JW as well.

HLMom, I get you are trying to wrap your brain around all of this, but you equating Safe Sport and one’s ability to be apart of a club to a criminal trial and those repercussions is part of the problem. I get exactly where you are coming from. I worked for and have friends who strictly deal in appellate law and who have argued in front of the US Supreme Court and argued major cases in CT. I’m not saying that puts me on your level, I am simply saying I get where you are coming from.

Here is the piece you continually miss. The ban was from HORSE SHOWS. Given the track record of horse people, that no way impacts one’s ability to train, teach, sell and buy. If the accused has any fear of this they can simply call PV to learn his strategy of how, to this day despite being barred from the USEF, still has students in the ring. People will still train with people no matter what if they are that good. It turns my stomach but that’s reality.

20 Likes

But that is EXACTLY WHAT YOU TYPED (here it is again, quoted from your post for you to see):

"Question from an outside observer… coincidence that he grew up training with Jimmie Williams? It seems quite conceivable that young male students who went on to become professionals in the industry repeated behavior modeled by Williams…

Surely I am not the only person noticing this tragic connection…"

You said right there that “it seems quite conceivable that young male students” [PLURAL studentS, not just Rob Gage] might repeat the “behavior modeled by Williams”.

For crying out loud, either own your words or admit you were wrong, but don’t try to Sarah Huckabee Sanders your way out of your original words when your original post is right there for all of us to see.

7 Likes

I am not unaware there is a difference between being jailed and being banned from USEF activities. However, I think it deliberately underestimates the effect of the ban to say it is just “horse shows.” As a parent, I would certainly never hire a trainer for my daughter who had a Safesport sanction on his record and/or who could not attend any horse shows. The latter is the main purpose of a trainer. So I think realistically, one’s livelihood in the English horse show world would be ruined.

I don’t know how there can be a trainer whose training business is unaffected by a Safesport sanction, but I guess if you know someone who has finagled this, maybe it is possible.

2 Likes

Do you know who Paul Vallarie is? He was a part of a group that killed his clients horses for insurance money. The FBI was involved. He skated out on significant jail time because he wore a wire for the FBI. Barney Ward was involved, McClain’s dad. Guess what? People still entrusted their horses in his care. They still board with him. Why? Because he’s that good.

Many people knew what Jimmy Williams was doing. They still let their kids ride with him.

I get it. You are a responsible caring parent. Not everyone is. That is how these people get away with it for years despite whispers and proof. That doesn’t even touch the response kids would have gotten years ago and to this day. Just go on Facebook. The troops have been rallied to victim shame. It’s not right and it’s never going to be right.

People have posted here about backlash when reporting people for showing in the wrong division. What do you think would happen if someone went public with being sexually assaulted by a BNT?

21 Likes

You want to know what really has me enraged about this case and to a minor extent, the metoo movement, was I was sexually abused by a family member from age 7-14. And my mother brushed it under the rug when I finally told her when I was in my 40’s because the perp was her brother. I am angry to this day but when I read a 17 year old having a consensual relationship with an older man and now, 38 years later, is coming out saying something, they are NOT the same level of victim. These recent allegations by many women claiming “metoo” because someone brushed up against them 27 years ago has totally diluted those who really suffered abuse. I would not ever say anything now because it looks like I’m just jumping on the bandwagon. Saying you suffered sexual abuse used to mean something. Now it is so watered down. I don’t understand why this person came forward 38 years later unless they were traumatized and have carried it with them. It sounded like it was mutual. TO ME, it is not the same as what what some of us carry. Stop diluting real sexual abuse with what I feel is watered down stuff.

I’m sorry this sounds rambling. I am not a crazy person. It just feels like some of this is getting out of hand and it makes me angry that this person gets lumped into my experiences. It is NOT the same.

And this is the first time I have ever verbalized this and it felt good. I wrote it out as I felt it without regard to how it sounded and it was surprisingly cathartic.

15 Likes

I am mortified for you that you seem to have no clue with regards to how a trainer can avoid a SafeSport sanction. The way for trainers to avoid SafeSport sanctions is for every single one of them to avoid sexual contact with minors.

19 Likes

And you know that is the complaint how?

@Jumperwannabe what you read on Facebook has about a 50% chance of being true. I am sorry you had to go through what you did. And you’re not crazy! I just think believing what is written on social media and playing the one up game is not remotely helpful.

7 Likes

Ummm - I have no problem owning my words. I find it interesting that you are so upset with what I said. And that in your 2nd response to me, and this effort to get me to “own my words” (no resistance, here by the way, but pick a fight if you want) … you have failed to actually deal with the full breadth of how you twisted them with your first response … :uhoh:”‹

Be that as it may, you seem to take issue with the fact that in my first comment I made a general reference to “young male students” who came up the ranks via Jimmy Williams program… and then in my second comment, focused back in on Mr. Gage.

In the spirit of civil discourse, I will acknowledge that you have a point. You were in error, however, when you STRETCHED to claim that I somehow was saying ANYONE who EVER trained with the late Jimmy Williams at ANY point in his life should be subject to Safe Sport investigations.

It irritated me that you attempted to put that on me, given that I didn’t say anything of the sort. Feel free to join in and own it… at anytime.

But back to my initial generality regarding unnamed “young male students” who came up under Jimmy Williams, went on to become professionals in the industry, and “conceivably” repeated terrible behavior that was modeled by a coach they looked up to.

@Denali6298 - I agree with you. If Mr. Gage was in fact guilty of inappropriate conduct with female minors that he coached… even if this was many moons ago… on some level, Jimmy Williams is a poison that infected the whole situation, and perhaps influenced tragic choices on the part of at least one of his students. It’s very very sad. It makes me sad for the junior student RG was many many moons ago, coming up the ranks in the incredibly problematic Flintridge program.

But back to my initial comment regarding young male students of Jimmy Williams who looked up to him, and perhaps repeated that behavior… other than RG… who are you defending? I don’t know any of these people, don’t live in California, and am not active in hunters and jumpers, but I will admit that certain comments published in the New York Times article about JW in 2018 were alarming… comments made (in print) by a different young man who came up in JWs program and went on to have a lengthy career as a professional and coach in the jumper world. The comments definitely stuck in my mind, because they came off as completely nonchalant about the topic of adult male coaches molesting underage female students, and defensive with respect to JW in particular, and hostile towards people who came forward with their experiences as childhood victims of his… and the whole situation with RG and the link to JW made me recollect those comments.

So I went back and reviewed and found them in the 2018 NYT article, and have copied and pasted them here.

”“It’s sad things like that are said about a man who has been passed away” for more than 25 years, said Hap Hansen, who grew up riding at Flintridge and became one of the most successful grand prix riders in the world. While he said he witnessed Mr. Williams kissing and touching women and girls, Mr. Hansen said he did not believe it was without consent.

“I think he was a great horseman; he was a legend in his time,” Mr. Hansen said. “In my mind, he still is. I just think those things are stupid to bring up whether they are true or not.”

JUST TO BE CLEAR… I am not accusing anyone of anything. But plenty of people were disturbed by these comments in that article at the time. And said so on these boards. Loyalty to one’s childhood coach does not totally explain the attitude, in my opinion. People who came of age during a different time also doesn’t explain this attitude. I know plenty of 60 something year old men who totally LOATHE the idea of other grown men having any sort of sexual interaction with an underage girl. In addition to these comments in the 2018 NYT article, we now have the allegations against RG, which Safesport supposedly investigated, upheld, and have come out as saying came from multiple people. It is hard to not link all this back to JW, and wonder about how much damage he did to a number of young people, and the sport.

Anyone educated about abuse knows that it often is a multi generational problem… for many reasons. It’s tragic all around.

6 Likes

That is not remotely what she meant. She is looking at this through her own eyes. As a good parent she would yank her kid from that trainer. She is assuming everyone would have the same reaction.

We all know that is not true. We also know her insistence about being able to be apart of a club equates to constitutional rights is also not true.

1 Like

I have another thought on why old allegations are being brought out. Maybe their abuse happened long ago and they dealt with it for years and they’re in a position of power now

Then they find out about new, younger victims that will have their career destroyed by being the accuser (victim shaming/blaming). So to protect the new victims the older victim brings the charges and takes the heat

If A.K. was the accuser she is in a position that is not likely to be impacted by the repercussions if her name comes out. OTOH, a younger rider or trainer that is trying to get established could have a much harder time dealing with it.

4 Likes

I guess you are reading her posts differently than I am reading them. I don’t think it is difficult at all to avoid SafeSport sanctions, as long as you aren’t a child molester. If you are or ever have been a child molester, it is my opinion that at the very least, you should not be allowed on USEF show grounds for the rest of your life.

12 Likes

We are reading the same way. I just think that I realize she is naive and you don’t. Not a criticism. She’s a horse show mom and doesn’t ride. She truly doesn’t know because she’s not like you or I who have been enmeshed for decades.

And you’re right about how she said there is no way to avoid it. I clearly missed that statement. WOW!

And I think you’re commenting on her posts collectively where as I am looking at this particular one. If I’m wrong please correct me.

1 Like